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"faith without works is dead" is the line I misquoted...What it ultimately comes down to is it's simple teaching that christ is the only way to salvation. You talk about big sins and small sins but really, sin is sin according to the bible, (I believe there was only one "unpardonable sin" which if memory serves correctly I believed referred to one of 'gods elect' denying the words of christ from flowing through him/her during a certain event in revelations) talked about in the bible. But it basically would make it cut and dry that any sin committed in your entire life would be enough to condemn you if you don't except christ. From what I've studied the bible is also pretty clear that once you are "saved" you are pretty much supposed to dedicate your life to christianity. (%99 who call them selves christians don't do this.)

The guy earlier telling me I was full of shit because I hadn't read the entire bible so I can't comment on it one way or the other basically proved the point I was trying to make earlier. really, what "christians" have read the whole bible?...If I don't know enough to be allowed to comment on the subject, you might as well say christians don't have a right to call them selves christians unless they've read the entire bible and earned a theological degree.

...So much as the message of the bible it's self is what's offensive (and any other 'all or nothing' religion, that declares it's self the only true religion or you will go to hell. For those who would say I'm only picking on christians and not muslims or jews).



Okay, if we're going to argue theology on a porn forum...

Again, you're interpretation comes from a fundamentalist viewpoint, which most people in the US seem to think represents the christian religion in toto.

Catholic and protestant theology is much more subtle than your argument makes out. Read Reinhold Niebhur, Simone Weil or Han Kung to get an idea of how complex and debated the reading of 'grace vs. works' actually is in christian theology.

Regarding being 'saved' the idea is a 19th century invention of the American revival that is specific to the fundamentalists, it is not in the bible. Neither does the bible declare itself 'inerrant.' Simplistic statements that christianity is the only path to salvation can be easily refuted by the story of the good Samaritan.

The bible is much more open to different readings than standard dogma would have you believe. The meaning of the gospels and other books of the bible was debated for centuries and the common reading that we know today was the result of political oppression of alternative and gnostic interpretations (look at Karen Armstrong's Biography of the Bible, Jonathan Kirsch's God Against the Gods, Elaine Pagels Adam, Eve and the Serpent). Also look at Nietzsche's reading of the gospels in The Antichrist to see a radical reading which actually revives some of the ideas of the gnostics.

And actually, I don't think ANYONE should really consider themselves a christian unless they have read the bible. That seems like reasonable minimum requirement, otherwise they're left open to the bullshit distortions of the preachers who take passages out of context to push whatever agenda they feel like. That is what most of the Reformation was about, individuals right to reading and interpreting the bible for themselves.

Again, outside of the fundamentalist NO ONE thinks the bible is the literal word of God. Not catholics, jews or mainline protestants. They may believe the bible is divinely inspired but not that every letter of a document from thousands of years ago that has been translated into various other languages decades at least after the events, many of which clearly never historically occurred, is objectively true.

Now you can say that most christians don't take their religion seriously enough, or think deeply enough about it, but that is true for about every creed out there.

I've read the bible, koran, dhammapada and upanishads. Not saying this to brag, I'm saying if you're going to talk about someone else's beliefs do your homework first. I'm not christian at all, I was raised in an agnostic household where religion was completely absent, but I've worked closely with people from different religious backgrounds and looked into their beliefs out of mutual respect. They had all read Albert Camus after all.

btw the koran says that christians, jews and muslims are 'people of the book' and should all be respected, it was the later rulings of the power hungry ulema that promoted intolerance of other creeds.

Man, now that I've typed all this I realize who wants to read a goddamn essay on theology and religious history on a fucking porn forum. This is why I hate discussing this shit on the internet.