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#406642 - 03/12/09 07:51 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 4726
Loc: The City That Never Sleeps, Tr...
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#406643 - 03/12/09 07:55 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Seriously. My inner whore just came out of hibernation and just licked a cartoon man on a computer screen.
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"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#406645 - 03/12/09 11:06 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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So, if I were to convert 1 trillion dollars into Zimbabwe money how large would my stack be?
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#406646 - 03/13/09 12:55 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Anyone who hasn't seen the recent documentary I.O.U.S.A. really owes it to themselves to track down a copy, and check it out -- it's the American financial situation's equivalent of An Inconvenient Truth. For any of us in our twenties and thirties, this tells without a doubt what the future of the US will look like at the end of our lifetimes fifty years from now, barring massive action.
(They have a half-hour preview on their website, but the full movie is worth it!)
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#406647 - 03/13/09 05:30 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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So you're saying this movie is piece of liberal propaganda, designed to scaremonger people into action?
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#406649 - 03/13/09 07:12 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
So you're saying this movie is piece of liberal propaganda, designed to scaremonger people into action?
If "liberal" means being backed by domain specific experts in areas of science and research, rather than creationists, vested corporate interests, and White House meddling in science, then yeah, that's exactly the same kind of movie I mean.
I find drastic climate change scary, and worthy of mongering.
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#406650 - 03/13/09 07:17 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Just so you know, if we hooked every computer on earth together, there still won't be enough computing power to even remotely simulate a model of the earths atmosphere, maybe in 20 years, but not now. And I wouldn't call anything that actively attempts to stifle serious scientific criticism of itself as a scientific discipline.
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#406651 - 03/13/09 07:35 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
You are aware, right?, that Obama's planned deficit for *this year alone* is greater than the deficit Reagan ran up in *all eight years combined*?
Even Bush jr. looks fiscally responsible by comparison: Obama's planned deficit for *next year alone* will be about the same as Bush jr's the deficit from his *first seven years combined*, and likely all eight years since Obama's revenue assumptions are based on 2006, i.e., he assumes the recession never happened.
Obama's *plans* will increase the deficit 50% before he leaves office. That's not something being forced on him by circumstance.
Without a surplus, and without just printing a batch of bills specifically to fix today's problems alone (with the accompanying problems that follow that sort of clusterfuck), deficit spending is the only way to proceed. On paper anyways, spending it on infrastructure and rebuilding seems sounder than Reagan's huge defense buildup.
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#406652 - 03/13/09 07:39 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
Just so you know, if we hooked every computer on earth together, there still won't be enough computing power to even remotely simulate a model of the earths atmosphere, maybe in 20 years, but not now.
Untrue -- we've been simulating particle trajectories over large areas for nuclear weapons for decades now on supercomputers, and also to a lesser (and less serious) degree, weather. Climate simulations exist -- you don't need to simulate to infinite depth to get approximate results.
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And I wouldn't call anything that actively attempts to stifle serious scientific criticism of itself as a scientific discipline.
Criticism is meta -- how can a movie (filmed earlier in time) reach out and stifle criticism in the future?
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#406653 - 03/13/09 07:53 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
Untrue -- we've been simulating particle trajectories over large areas for nuclear weapons for decades now on supercomputers, and also to a lesser (and less serious) degree, weather. Climate simulations exist -- you don't need to simulate to infinite depth to get approximate results.
Then why aren't they able to make anything close to an accurate forecast from their model data?
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Criticism is meta -- how can a movie (filmed earlier in time) reach out and stifle criticism in the future?
Trying to be facetious? You know what I meant, the whole Global Warming Movement. When Alfred Wegener first proposed his continental drift theory, in 1915, no one took it seriously. Only after serious scientific debate and discovery was it accepted in 1950.
Gore's strategy was to go straight to the public and scare them into believing him and label any scientific query of his "facts" as just deniers not worthy of notice. Make no mistake the Global Warming Movement is a political one, not a scientific one.
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#406654 - 03/13/09 08:19 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
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Quote:
Without a surplus, and without just printing a batch of bills specifically to fix today's problems alone (with the accompanying problems that follow that sort of clusterfuck), deficit spending is the only way to proceed.
Deficits aren't financed by printing stacks of dollar bills. It's done by selling bonds to the Chinese, Arabs, etc, and those bonds have a due-date and carry interest.
And in any case the budget plan doesn't include money to "fix today's problems". *That* will be over and above the budget plans. Also the budget makes revenue assumptions that the recession never happened.
All of which means that taxes coming in are likely to be a lot less than expected, expenditures a lot higher, and the deficit estimate much too low.
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On paper anyways, spending it on infrastructure and rebuilding seems sounder than Reagan's huge defense buildup.
That's not clear. FDR used military spending at the end of the 1930s to get the country out of the Depression. The Infrastructure projects earlier in the decade didn't do that trick.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock
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#406657 - 03/13/09 10:08 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
Quote:
Without a surplus, and without just printing a batch of bills specifically to fix today's problems alone (with the accompanying problems that follow that sort of clusterfuck), deficit spending is the only way to proceed.
Deficits aren't financed by printing stacks of dollar bills. It's done by selling bonds to the Chinese, Arabs, etc, and those bonds have a due-date and carry interest.
I didn't state they were -- I specifically used words to imply that apart from having the money (surplus), or 'conjuring' it up (printing it), that owing it to someone else (deficit spending) was the alternative. Maybe you thought I meant running a deficit meant printing it, but I don't, and didn't.
Quote:
And in any case the budget plan doesn't include money to "fix today's problems". *That* will be over and above the budget plans. Also the budget makes revenue assumptions that the recession never happened.
All of which means that taxes coming in are likely to be a lot less than expected, expenditures a lot higher, and the deficit estimate much too low.
Wouldn't 2009 budget assumptions follow in line (or near) 2008 numbers, in which the economy wasn't exactly stellar either?
The money I was referring to for fixing today was the proposed stimulus package, adding more debt to the overall totals (whether you calculate it alongside this year's deficit, or keep it separate and tack it on the overall national debt). More money the USA doesn't have, either way.
There are some really nice graphs in IOUSA, where they project how in 2050 or so, all US federal money gets budgeted to pay social security, and service the debts. All other programs would be terminated or unaffordable.
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On paper anyways, spending it on infrastructure and rebuilding seems sounder than Reagan's huge defense buildup.
That's not clear. FDR used military spending at the end of the 1930s to get the country out of the Depression. The Infrastructure projects earlier in the decade didn't do that trick.
Repairing the country's infrastructure is the more sound move to me, compared with spending on military ('defense'). I'm actually less concerned about whether the USA then ends up in a better financial position after this has happened, and more that critical projects at home get caught up with. That's how I justify saying infrastructure spending is worth going into debt.
FDR's WPA administration that carried out those infrastructure improvements also did little more than house, feed, and clothe many of the workers. Sure, there was a paycheck, but many of them ended up working seven days a week, and sleeping at the sites with no additional incentives towards productivity. This reeks of a 'make work' project more than anything -- busywork for the common folk until 'the economy' (nebulously controlled and finessed elsewhere) somehow managed to turn itself around.
Today's equivalent would likely involve more American contractors and engineers, with trickledown effects for American businesses, and labour probably performed by transient workers, than the citizen ditch diggers of the 1930s.
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#406658 - 03/13/09 11:40 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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Name: Da Burglar Age: 41 Education: Some school in the greater Boston Area you never heard of, degree in Government & Economics Experience: 17+ years of turning nothing into something, all under a (in retrospect incorrect) dark cloud of impending death. The current WORLD economic situation defies simple, straightforward, logical discussion and corrective measures. Mankind has seriously fucked himself/herself/itself in the ass .... Obama is going to end up kicking in the last support beam with this absurd "plan" of his, but he cannot be held MORE culpable than all the fucktards, Republican and Democrat, who came before him starting around 1982-83. People are to blame, both politicians and everyday schmoes....the American people lived beyond (WAY THE FUCK BEYOND) their collective means for a period of time that even defied people like Ross Perot and his 1992 charts of doom. The inevitable has happened. When the Obama plan has been implemented and people see the resulting shit hit the FINAL fan, we will have socialism by default, because the capitalist model upon which we have operated for centuries, lead by the financial/banking meltdon, will be wrecked and the only thing to prevent total anarchy and firefights on the freeways will be for the government to step in and provide ALL manner of subsistence and care and service. I've liquidated everything I can that makes sense to liquidate, the only real stocks I now have are in things like the little organic brewery in No Cal, and companies that manufacture things like scooters for old people since the population is getting both too old and FAT to walk. And some medical supply companies...... I've bought guns, I've built bunkers, I've advertised and interviewed for female sex slaves to live in said bunkers.... Just give it up people, take all your money and blow it on drugs and hookers and Starbucks and Jimmy Choos and Paintball games and Blackjack and Hookers and....  All I need is three bimbos who play scrabble and cribbage and fall to their knees on cue and I can live through anything. It's a good thing I'm cute on top of everything else....
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Are you gonna eat that?
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#406659 - 03/13/09 12:47 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
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da Burg: are you suggesting no more Air Jordans? No more XBOX? No more iPOD???
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock
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#406660 - 03/13/09 06:38 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 4726
Loc: The City That Never Sleeps, Tr...
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Quote:
I would like some of that money from the largest pile.
More fucking cufflinks and body gels Panz, is that what you bought with your whole income tax refund, plus a few used books??
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#406661 - 03/13/09 06:48 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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@
Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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That wasn't panzer that posted that.. It was his degenerate lowlife genetics. I doubt he even remembers it. It's the same self sustaining code that keeps his people from wasting themselves after bending over like dogs for the homeless in exchange for stale bread and sucking off rich Christians for loose change. We should actually celebrate his existence here because America wins, in his case of course. heh 
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i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#406662 - 03/13/09 07:34 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
More fucking cufflinks and body gels Panz, is that what you bought with your whole income tax refund, plus a few used books??
The sad part, Gypsy, is that his whole income tax refund came to $12.98.
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#406663 - 03/13/09 10:19 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
So, if I were to convert 1 trillion dollars into Zimbabwe money how large would my stack be?
Zimbabwe is Dollar also.....FYI 
http://www.xe.com/ucc/full/
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#406664 - 03/13/09 10:20 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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Quote:
Just so you know, if we hooked every computer on earth together, there still won't be enough computing power to even remotely simulate a model of the earths atmosphere, maybe in 20 years, but not now. And I wouldn't call anything that actively attempts to stifle serious scientific criticism of itself as a scientific discipline.
Again, I shall offer a bona fide experiment.
H2C, go into the garage, make sure all windows, doors, etc. are sealed and start up your vehicle.
Say to yourself, that nothing bad can happen from the consumption of hydrocarbons in a closed environment.
============
Our planet IS a closed environment; of course, it is much bigger than your garage, and the time involved isn't minutes but decades, and there are a whole lot of other variables, but it should also be obvious that the "exhaust" of the world's day-to-day life has consequences that have to be addressed.
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#406665 - 03/18/09 11:18 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
Our planet IS a closed environment; of course, it is much bigger than your garage, and the time involved isn't minutes but decades, and there are a whole lot of other variables, but it should also be obvious that the "exhaust" of the world's day-to-day life has consequences that have to be addressed.
Quote:
Sunbathing helps your body produce Vitamin D, this is an essential nutrient, and therefore sunbathing is good for you.
Here’s a little experiment of my own: Gunker can you tell me what the above two statements have in common?
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#406666 - 03/20/09 10:17 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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Synecdochal transitive property? Post-neologistic quasi-neologism? Post-post-neomodernistic retro-modernism, posthaste? Spam-influenced, non-spam spam? Spam, spam, spam, dada, spam, spam, not dada? spam? 
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#406667 - 03/21/09 02:42 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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I know liberals and logic don't mix, but here's another hint: The thing that makes similar also makes them incorrect.
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#406669 - 03/21/09 07:52 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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Marianas Turkey Shoot?
It's not lupus?
Raymond Chandler?
Leonard Cohen?
Decatur?
The USFL?
A penny earned is a penny saved?
Plastic or paper (neither; bring your canvas bags!)?
Displacement chromatography?
The 1954 Cleveland Indians?
The Belt of Orion?
Cosmo's Factory?
Normandy butter?
Beef Wellington?
The Battle of Borodino?
The race to Messina in 1943?
Buckminister Fuller?
Trainspotting?
Mango?
Papaya?
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#406671 - 03/22/09 07:13 AM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Liberals use science the way Conservatives use religion. They take the part that suites there political agenda, discard the rest, and then proceed to use it to scaremonger the populace into line. I have some bad news for you Gunker, your shit stinks too.
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#406672 - 03/23/09 10:09 PM
Re: $Trillion - Just to put it in Perspective
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Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer
Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 1155
Loc: U.S. Outpost 31
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They also use 'compassion' the same way conservatives use 'patiotism'. Mostly as a cover to implement policies that are,respectively, neither compassionate or patriotic.
_________________________
I know you gentlemen have been through a lot,and when you find the time...I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter tied to this fucking couch!
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