Found this on avn.com

Black Questions Fight of 'My Business' In Magazine Article
By: Charles Farrar
04-07-2004


LOS ANGELES - Not only does Robert Zicari (Rob Black) believe too many in the business have not stood up and fought against vice hunters in and out of government, but a cover story in the forthcoming May issue of Reason says Zicari has "reached out to some of his better funded peers" in adult entertainment – including Hustler founder-publisher Larry Flynt – to little if any response.

"He's correct," Flynt told AVN.com in a telephone interview. "I had a request from them for money for their defense fund. I spoke with (other producers) who just echoed my feelings, we've got a guy who's bringing a lot of heat on the adult industry.

"I've been involved in more obscenity cases than probably anybody who's been around now," the Hustler publisher continued. "Sure, I push the envelope. But when I started out in 1974, much of the stuff I'm publishing you can see on cable and satellite TV now. I wasn't going into court and having to say, 'you know, this is garbage, but it's protected under the First Amendment.'"

"The feds are kicking themselves in the balls right now because they hit me first," Zicari chief told freelance journalist G. Beato, who wrote "X-Treme Measures,", based on interviews he did of Zicari and other adult entertainment figures during January's Adult Entertainment Expo, for Reason, a libertarian opinion and investigative reporting magazine.

"Anybody else in this industry would have already copped a plea, and that's just what the government wants," Zicari told Beato. "They don't want millions of people debating this issue. They don't want a big firestorm of publicity. They want to do this quietly."

Flynt said Zicari deserves First Amendment protection because "all forms of expression are legally protected by the First Amendment," but he questioned whether Zicari has matched responsibility to his First Amendment protection.

"What we're talking about here is an industry that everybody is doing very well in," Flynt said. "Everyone is following certain guidelines. Not just what they produce but where they ship them to, where they're being sold from. And as a result, this industry has grown from a $600 million industry in the early 1970s to an $11 billion industry today. But it's because, you know, we have businessmen running it, not people that wanted to see how kinky or weird they could get."

"There's a lot of people in this industry who think it's not them, it's me," Zicari told Beato. "But honestly, if those motherfuckers think that (Attorney General John) Ashcroft has hired 25 prosecutors to get me and that's it, then they are unbelievably delusional."

Flynt said he doesn't think the government is so much singling Zicari out as doing "the logical thing to go after the worst first. That's why he was selected for prosecution."

But Flynt did agree with Zicari that, if he and Extreme go down, "they'll be coming after the entire industry." On the other hand, Flynt continued, Zicari brought it about himself. "Not us," Flynt said. "He's trying to say that the reason why we should help with his defense fund is, because if he gets convicted we're next. And he's right. We are next. But it's something that he created."

Beato in Reason observed that questions abound as to why porn is held to a higher standard than other pop culture genres. "Are the two amateurishly simulated murders in Forced Entry somehow more offensive than the dozens of expertly simulated murders in Jason vs. Freddy> or Gangs of New York?" he wrote. "Is the difference between eating semen-spattered dog food in a porn movie and eating raw pig rectums on Fear Factor really so pronounced that the former deserves a jail sentence while the latter becomes a prime-time major network staple?"

Flynt said you can count on one hand the adult directors "bent on doing, you know, things that are real demeaning toward women…You don't want a jury of at least half women sitting there seeing this. It's cutting your own throat. This has nothing to do with the First Amendment, it takes an idiot to create a product that he knows he can't defend in court that's going to send him to prison."

Zicari and his wife, Janet Romano (a.k.a. Lizzy Borden) were indicted last August on ten counts of violating federal obscenity laws, each facing maximum 50-year sentences and $2.5 million in fines. "By comparison," Beato wrote, "the maximum sentence for actual rape in Pennsylvania is 20 years."

Federal prosecutor Mary Beth Buchanan, who is handling the Extreme Associates prosecution, told Beato the government lacks the resources to prosecute every "instance of the illegal distribution of obscenity. But if the law isn't enforced, the material is going to proliferate and become more violent, more degrading, and more disgusting. So there have to be limits."

Zicari's attorney, Louis Sirkin, told Beato he considers censorship a cancer. "Once it starts," he said, "it spreads pretty rapidly."

This article is valid proof of how we all have to stand together to fight the slowly growing forces of government censorship,and to register to vote(I recently did!!!)and vote at the upcoming elections,and make sure that we have a definitive change in political leadership.

Larry Flynt is a asshole if he dosnt step in and help Rob out . WTF Larry , do the right thing and set a good example for others in the industry to follow .

Flynt is right, the idiot was asking for it. You gotta be smart and draw the line somewhere and Black might has well have put a bullseye on himself., but if they get him, they'll look for more. That's exactly why it would be cool if Larry helped, but if he did they'd target him immmediately making like they're partners in crime. He's right about the money and that's why he's just gonna sit back and rake in the money. Porn is really all about money, not pussy... But what Flynt is forgetting is that Ashcroft & the religious right look at all pornographers as being in bed together and that all porn is a product of the devil. It's a witch hunt, but they're the monsters in my opinion.

I don't get Flynt. It seems he should be the LAST guy to talk about "bringing heat." Isn't this the same motherfucker who wore an American flag as a diaper in Federal court? Who defied every aspect of convention? Who constantly thumbed his nose at law enforcement, even throwing oranges at a judge and paying his fines in crumpled $1 bills? Who made his fortune publishing nude photos of a former first lady? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I remember when Hustler came out and was daring enough to actually show pubic hair!*gasp* and Hefner and all the other magazines distanced themselves from him, saying he was a sleazeball who was going to bring heat and negative attention to their pristine world. Seems like Flynt's doing the same fucking thing to Rob Black. What a fucking hypocrite!!!

Fuckin' Flynt's rolling in dough. He should break off a little and help someone out who, for better or worse, is simply emulating him, doing outrageous and controversial antics to get attention for himself and his company. Stop throwing stones from your glass house, Larry!!!

im not exactly unbiased on this subject, being that i tend to work for Rob quite a bit now. but i feel guys like Mike South who have such a contempt for this business anbd air the dirty laundry with so much venom do more damage than rob ever could.

(don't get me wrong, i like mike even if i don't always agree with him, he helped get us into the business and introduce us to people. i just at times find him to be full of himself... )

The thing with Mike South is he can't get over his personal hatred of Rob cuz Rob used to bust his balls when they at Elegant Angel and Wanker Wang wrote a couple of really scathing articles on South on the Extreme website, so his judgement is clouded with respect to Extreme.

It's a shame, cuz sometimes I like to read Mike's site. He's really a stupid hillbilly who thinks he's some kind of player in the industry. It's like reading the Weekly World News with Bat Boy. The difference is that he actually believes what he's writing, and that people in the porno biz give a fuck about his opinions. Dumb inbred hick.

Bat Boy rules!

are you saying maybe there is a tinge of bitterness then?

and yes, bat boy rules all.

Heres more to the story .

Rob Black's Open Letter to Larry Flynt
By: Robert Zicari
04-12-2004


CHATSWORTH, Calif. - [Ed. note: This is an unedited open letter to Larry Flynt in response to comments Flynt made in a recent interview with AVN.com. That interview was in Flynt's response to comments Zicari made to Reason magazine. Zicari's opinions are his own and are not endorsed by AVN.com ]

As I followed Larry Flynt’s career and watched him fight for First Amendment rights, going so far as to take a bullet for what he believed in, now, 30 years later, it seems, based on his recent quotes in Reason Magazine, Larry shoots that same bullet through my heart and he turns his back on fight that he gave up so much for.

If certain people in the adult industry want to speak out against me, I can accept it. They never built their careers on challenging the establishment or pushing the envelope. So, they don’t know about, nor can they be put in my situation. But I say to Larry, you should be standing and fighting with me instead of against me. It seems by what I read lately, that you are now part of a somewhat growing group in the business I can only categorize as right wing pornographers. Can this be true?

If this is true and ironic as it may be seem for others in the business to speak out about what the definition of bad taste and/or obscenity may be, I can only call Flynt’s membership in this group to be hypocritical, dangerous and dangerously close to that of the Bush administration and current justice department.

Larry, in your response on AVN.com to the Reason magazine article, you point out that in 1974, it all started for Hustler magazine by pushing the envelope on what you were publishing. Now this kind of material can be viewed around the clock on cable and satellite TV. So, are you justifying your actions by saying that because popular culture is accepting of what you create but was once considered obscene? Perhaps 30 years from now, my product that is currently being prosecuted will be deemed appropriate adult entertainment. Larry, if this is really how you feel, you are now exactly what you fought against for years.

What I am under indictment for tests the limits of the current administration position of obscenity, much the same as you did Larry, before I was born.

In 1974, showing a close up of a woman’s open vagina was undeniably extreme. You brought to the masses crude and extreme pictures of naked women. It was a magazine with a controversial and some said dangerous edge and I proudly say, what you achieved was revolutionary and still remains a defining moment for freedom of speech and expression. It changed the world of print pornography forever.

Hell, Hefner wanted no part of your world. You were shot, shunned and considered a degenerate, who was a menace to America’s self-inflicted morality. When you published nude photos of Jackie Onassis, our memory of Jackie Kennedy was no longer the prettiest wife of a President, ever, holding pieces of John F. Kennedy’s bullet ridden head in her hands—you took her from sainthood, victim and martyr to a level of celebrity exploitation that has somehow set the standard that all other tabloid publications follow.

Back when pornography was Playboy and Deep Throat, you came along with spread legs, pink and Beaver of the Month! You were as reviled by some as I am now. The best part of how other adult company owners and producers are responding to my movies is to call them disgusting, revolting and outside of the norm of their own product, which frankly I know most have not seen—and haven’t seen their own adult movies.

Of the three movies I am being prosecuted on in Western Pennsylvania, Reason magazine called Cocktails 2 the porn version of the TV show, “Fear Factor.”

One of my other titles under indictment, Forced Entry has less gore and reality than Jason vs. Freddy or Gangs of New York

Extreme Teen 24 is not much more extreme than any of Hustler’s Barely Legal series of videos. I welcome any director, producer, or company owner in porn to watch any of these three movies and then engage in a discussion with me on what I did that brought the heat down on the industry. Maybe they should take the time to watch their own product first, so they are aware of what they speak.

What I read on AVN.com about my interview in Reason quoted you as saying, “We've got a guy who's bringing a lot of heat on the adult industry.” The issue of federal porn prosecutions was nothing I created nor was it anything I contributed to. The only thing I created was myself as target. The article in Reason clearly states pornography prosecution will continue to be an issue for any Republican administration. When Clinton took office, for eight years our business continued to grow by billions of dollars. Had the tragedy of 9/11 not occurred, the Bush administration would have come after our business much quicker than they have now.

But now, last year, as it was time to start looking toward a reelection campaign, the Christian right groups started asking Bush and Ashcroft where the delivery on their pre-election promises were. In 2001, when Bush and Ashcroft vowed to take on the industry, porn was no longer under the radar, you were no longer under the radar, but I still was. It was not until the Frontline piece on PBS in 2002 that, even according to the indictment, the federal government was aware of who I was in their eyes. Do you think that Bush’s letter of intent or Ashcroft’s similar promises were made based on Extreme Associates? Ask Howard Stern.

Larry, your remark about standing in court and believing that what I produce is garbage? Did you really mean this or even say it? Does it even have to be argued that one man’s garbage is another man’s art and that without a doubt, each of the movies I am indicted for carry either artistic merit or social commentary? For heaven’s sake Larry, you made your fortune showing wide open pussy shots and having plastered the pages of your magazine with secretly taken naked photos of our most beloved First Lady, not to mention Jerry Falwell’s treatment or the split beaver (Yes, younger porn fans, an actual split beaver as a “joke.”)

None of this may seem as strong as a fictional rape scene performed by consenting adults in Forced Entry, a movie based on the “Nightstalker” a.k.a. Richard Ramirez murders, but to American society in the early ‘70s, your publication was extreme, bold, shocking, that many considered it to contain no redeeming social value, commentary or artistic merit.

And since my admittedly, cheaply produced and executed porno made as a cultish bit of carnality, is declared objectionable to you and people like the Bush Administration because it is presented as a drama and not as a comedy.

Now, do you consider rape a taboo subject for an X-rated drama or is it okay as long as we laugh about it? How else can you explain your new release Tobey Byron’s Backcourt Violation? So, let me get this straight. It is acceptable to parody a court case where a young woman is claiming that she was anally raped but not to make a movie pointing out that rape and murder is wrong and a sociopath, rapist and murderer has justice served on him in the end. Of course, Larry you haven’t actually seen Forced Entry, I assume so I don’t expect you to understand how different our movies are.

Over the years, Hustler magazine became progressively more sexually extreme. Why? Because pornography sells—pure and simple. You also seem to question whether or not my movies matched the responsibility of my first amendment protection. So, in the ‘70s some said the same of Hustler, and Hefner and the government pointed the finger at you, saying what you did was wrong and irresponsible, you fought and argued that your (considered extreme at the time) magazine did was protected by your rights under the First Amendment.

You apparently go on to say in this article that our business is doing very well because companies follow guidelines on what to produce and where to ship movies and “the industry is (has) businessmen running it, not people that wanted to see how kinky or weird they could get." Larry, let me remind you proudly state that your first sexual experience was with a chicken. But I digress.

In and industry that has gone from 600 million dollars of annual business to an 11 Billion per year fiscal juggernaut, you seem to be misguided. What catalyzed the growth was the combination of pop culture and technology. In the 1970s there was no VCR, no DVD Player, no Internet, satellite or cable TV or hotels that play porn in your room around the clock. So what defines community standards when people enjoy adult entertainment behind closed doors, in the privacy or their home, hotel room and often their bed?

If I recall, if you were not able to purchase a copy of Hustler in a certain town, you would send one of your people into the store, defy the police to come and arrest the person selling it, and then have them go to jail. All of that to fight for the right for someone in that town to be able to buy the magazine that you felt was their god given First Amendment right to purchase.

Your life story was out there for us all to see on the big screen, but it seems that now Larry the Freedom Fighter is dead and Larry the Business Man is alive and apparently very well. Your companies are now being run by bean counters, just like mainstream Hollywood,

And then, from what I read, you go on to say you can count on one hand the adult directors "bent on doing, you know, things that are real demeaning toward women.” Maybe you don’t look far beyond the walls of Hustler, VCA, and Vivid (the porn companies your currently own and/or distribute). My question has to be “What do you consider demeaning?” Most porn companies these days are extreme. And, if you think that Ashcroft finds what I put on video to be demeaning to women, but what you put on video to be “acceptable,” then, if that is indeed the way you see things, you are out of touch. Yes, I spoke the loudest, but even so, you and some of my contemporaries don’t have the right to say that what I do is demeaning to women claiming your companies are all about class and respect.

How degraded does Kobe Bryant’s accuser when she sees her life exploited in a movie released by Larry Flynt? And how did women in general feel when you put a naked woman upside down in a meat grinder on the cover of Hustler?

Perhaps the most disheartening part of what appears to be your recent right wing conservative porn agenda is that you say I brought it on myself, I created my own indictment. Larry, I take full responsibility for a true crime based rape movie that I made. I also took the responsible stance not to sell the movie to any distributors and only make it available direct through Extreme Associates, on our website, www.extremeassociates.com.

When PBS called, me telling me they wanted to do a story on the business asking me to provide them with an ultra extreme scene, I delivered. They asked if I wanted to be the test case for obscenity prosecutions. I told them I didn’t necessarily want to be, but that I would accept the position if they forced it on me. Yes, I believe that in 2004 that I should be able to make a movie that combines drama, horror, violence, and sex. I believe I should be able to make a movie about a real serial killer. In this day and age where you can buy Charles Manson T-shirts and Son Of Sam dolls, and multi-platinum rock bands like Guns-N-Roses record a a song written by Charles Manson and movies like Kill Bill and The Passion of Christ considered by some the most gratuitously violent movies of all time, I feel that I have the right to create and adult movie about rape and serial killers who ultimately, pay a price for their crimes.

Just like mainstream Hollywood, The Other Holllywood pays taxes. When Hollywood makes an extreme movie, the film gets an NC-17 rating. If I make an extreme adult movie, the government wants to put me in jail. Mel Gibson, Quentin Tarrantino and the rest are considered true talents while my wife and I are looking at a potential lifetime in jail.

Larry, do you really believe I invited this on myself and deserve what I get? So, when I went to federal court should I have worn our beloved American flag as a diaper as you chose to do? Should I bark like a dog at the reporters as you did? When the judge told me I could not leave Los Angeles without permission should I have chartered a plane and flown to Yankee stadium for opening day, and when a judge wants evidence from me, should I throw oranges at him? If fined, should I have half-naked girls dump thousands of dollar bills in the courtroom? If the judge wants me to do something I don’t feel like doing, should I wait for the federal marshals to come and make sure all of the networks have their news cameras in place before I force the marshals to come in and get me? You claimed you were making a statement about your Constitutional rights.

If I chose to do any of those behaviors, some people in our industry would consider me insane and I probably would never be able to follow in your footsteps receiving free speech awards. You taunted the former Republican administrations with every move you made. You even offered a bounty for any dirt on administration members. You brought heat to our entire business. And now, can I really believe what I read, that you have turned your back on me?

I never asked you for money for my legal defense fund. Not that I wouldn’t and couldn’t use it. I welcome anyone to help support the case. At the suggestion of Jimmy Flynt, I wrote you a letter asking if you would give me 4 months of single page advertising somewhere among your own 45 pages of phone sex ads to advertise my mail order to try to raise money myself for my defense. I wrote to you saying that I felt uncomfortable and that the chance to do business through your magazine would be a big help. I just wished you would have given your response to me yourself, all these quotes attached to you, rather than reading something I can’t believe is your opinion. But that is your right to free speech, isn’t it Larry? Still, I can’t believe you feel this way.

In the end Larry, I feel extremely confident that I can defend my product in court and that I will win. It is disheartening if it’s true that you apparently aren’t there to support my right in this fight to free speech and expression. If what they say you said, and this is how you feel, you are helping to convict me, by inferring that my product and I am out of the norm of our industry.

If this is all really you, I wonder how you can forget where you came from, the battles you fought and one and lost and still call yourself a freedom fighter. I can’t imagine you turning your back on the principles and beliefs that made you the man who took a bullet for what he believes in and now have been reduced to being an armchair quarterback for the opposing team?

Larry, despite thinking that I brought the heat down on the industry, believe me this is indeed a battle that is larger than just one man or one company. This is a battle for the future of the entire adult entertainment business. But, just as you stood up by yourself and were willing to fight until the bitter end for what you believed in, I too am willing to stand on my own and fight this battle. I am appreciative of those in the industry who have come to my defense either by donating money or simply making sure that their shelves were stocked with Extreme product and vow that I will do all I can to make sure that when this is all said and done, we all have more protection under those vague obscenity laws.

I have lost all respect for Larry.I don't really care that he doesn't want to kick in any money for Robs cause,but to say that Rob is at fault is total bullshit.There is no safe porn.If Extreme goes down we will all pay the price.Larry Flint should be giving Rob Black and Extreme Associates moral support,publicly if nothing else.If we all stick together we can beat these enemies of free speech once and for all.

From avn.com


Flynt and Black Each Make One Last Response in Debate on Obscenity
By: Trent Brown
04-15-2004


Los Angeles - Larry Flynt and Rob Black, aka Robert Zicari, have each issued statements in their ongoing public debate regarding the lack of financial support the adult industry has offered Black as he faces a federal obscenity trial that will likely be financially devastating.

Both sides agree that Black has the First Amendment right to produce the content that he chooses, but Flynt doesn’t feel obligated to protect content that he feels endangers the industry.

Black has been indicted on federal obscenity charges, along with Lizzie Borden and Extreme Associates, for videos that among other things depicted rape. He argues that by not helping him in his trial, Flynt and others in the adult industry that are hurting themselves – each case obscenity case the government wins affects the entire industry.

The debate began earlier this month when an article profiling black in Reason magazine hit the streets. Black complained to Reason that adult producers including Larry Flynt weren’t banding together to support him financially during his obscenity trial, which will likely be a drawn out and expensive affair. Flynt told AVN.com the reason why he and other major producers refused Black’s request for help – they felt Black was a,” guy who's bringing a lot of heat on the adult industry.”

Black then responded with an open letter suggesting that Flynt was a hypocrite for suggesting that there was a line between what was acceptable and not acceptable in adult.

“It is disheartening if it’s true that you apparently aren’t there to support my right in this fight to free speech and expression,” Black wrote. “If what they say you said, and this is how you feel, you are helping to convict me, by inferring that my product and I am out of the norm of our industry.”

Black attempted to draw parallels between Flynt’s obscenity trials and his own. Flynt new response rejects Black’s attempt to draw parallels between the two.

"I have never been in favor of forced sex, whether real or imagined. I have always promoted consensual sex and portrayed consensual sex,” Flynt wrote. “Bad taste should not be confused with physical abuse. This is where I part company with Mr. Black.”

Black was indicted on obscenity charges, along with Lizzie Borden and Extreme Associates, for videos that among other things depicted rape.

Black response to Flynt is that his videos are fiction. “I’m just under federal indictment for my bad filmmaking—my bad taste in art,” Black said.

Noting that Hustler Video recently released a video that spoofed Kobe Bryant’s trial on rape charges, Black questioned how that was different from his work.

“If one is to follow your reasoning, Kobe Bryant’s charges of rape are considered consensual sex when presented in a slick and couples friendly format, but then, what do I know,” Black said.

The difference between the two producers represents what can be considered the old guard, who fought for the right to produce adult content, and a new guard that is fighting to produce the type of adult content that they choose.

Herewith is the full letter from Rob Black to Larry Flynt’s recent statement.

Dear Larry,

I too, have never been in favor of forced sex, whether real or imagined. I have always promoted consensual sex and practiced consensual sex in my personal life, which the last I checked, was and is reality.

However, I’m a filmmaker, an artist (if I may be so bold) and movies and art are not real. Even the Nixon Administration and the Meese Commission admitted that sex crimes (which are indeed physical abuse) are not brought about by watching pornography any more than men turning into serial killer rapists by watching movies about Ted Bundy or Oscar winning films such as Silence of the Lambs.

I agree that bad taste should not be confused with physical abuse any more than interspecies sex should be confused with physical abuse any more than cinema should be confused with reality.

Therefore, I must assume that sometime between you having your first sexual experience with a chicken and recently making a porn parody of the Kobe Bryant rape case, you have obviously lost your grip on reality. Or maybe, just maybe. one peck on your pecker from a chicken doesn’t mean yes, it means, ‘I’m being raped by a redneck.’

Also, if one is to follow your reasoning, Kobe Bryant’s charges of rape are considered consensual sex when presented in a slick and couples friendly format, but then, what do I know. I’m just under federal indictment for my bad filmmaking—my bad taste in art.

When I go on trial, I’m likely to show up in a diaper and curse the judge. Not that you would understand what that’s all about, sir. Have a nice day.

Sincerely,


Rob Zicari, aka Rob Black

Rob Black is my hero.

Score another one for Rob and again Larry shows us hes nothing but a little bitch.Fuck Larry Flint in his neck.

Rob kicks ass on so many fuckin levels...