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#492271 - 07/18/10 10:39 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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At no point, did the Enron traders ask themselves "is what I'm doing ethical?"
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#492272 - 07/18/10 10:42 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 06/22/07
Posts: 2656
Loc: Polekatz, Rte 43
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Enron, yeah, I think so. A lot of private investors and employees got burned. I almost forgot because it was like a few pennies compared to the amounts of taxpayer funds Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac pissed away under Dem hacks Franklin Ranes/Jaime Gorelik/ETC with the help of Barney Fwank/C. Dodd/the Community Reinvestment Act. And,of course, it was the first domino in the recession we are experiencing right now. They say "a rising tide lifts all ships". Without Fannie/Freddie, Gunker might even be able to afford a dishwasher.
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"You have been banned from making any new posts or sending private messages. The reason for this ban is: meh, cause i can"
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#492275 - 07/18/10 10:53 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2401
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If they cared about being ethical, they would have been weeded out during the interview process.
_________________________
"Guage once told me that there is nothing worse than eaten ass of a black dude thats been huffen drain cleaner the night befor." - delanoojos
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#492278 - 07/21/10 07:09 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 06/22/07
Posts: 2656
Loc: Polekatz, Rte 43
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Quote:
"'pennies' in loses", "loses we've hads under reganomics"
"losses" - (not a typo - you really are that dumb)
"Reaganomics" - (not a typo - you really are that dumb)
Quote:
it's self
you mean "itself"?
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white color crime
white "collar"
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military budget, bailouts, every rightwing quagmire we've slowly been sinking into since start of the eighties
military budget - necessary, broke the back of the Soviet Union
bailouts - a Dem concept, are the Goldman Sachs boys Republican?
every quagmire - why stop at the 80s, Einstein? let's go back to the 1920s!
Quote:
eroded freedom
Liberals/Dems are about eroding freedom in favor of government/bureaucratic control. Unless you're talking about the freedom to receive a handout.
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freedom as the right to demand the right to work 16 hours a day for poverty wages and to call anyone that was opposed to such a thing as a communist
Way to try out the strawman fallacy! Yeah, that's exactly what I think. You're not only a genius, you're a psychic! Freedom is "the right to demand the right to work 16 hours a day for poverty wages". "Anyone" who opposes this is a communist!
_________________________
"You have been banned from making any new posts or sending private messages. The reason for this ban is: meh, cause i can"
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#492279 - 07/22/10 05:59 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
kick a libertarian's fucking teeth out today, it's the only thing we can do to retrieve a tiny fraction of the freedom that's been eroded today...
It's you progressives who espouse the love of big controlling government. Libertarians want less government therefore more personal freedoms. You are really ill informed. Try reading a book, you could start with "Free To Choose" by Milton Friedman.
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#492280 - 07/22/10 06:28 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2401
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Is it possible that we just start a Douche Bags Arguing Politics forum here? Separate from AWOP.
_________________________
"Guage once told me that there is nothing worse than eaten ass of a black dude thats been huffen drain cleaner the night befor." - delanoojos
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#492281 - 07/22/10 06:30 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
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JFC, how idiotic of a poster do you have to be to make me defend Coke Stevenson?
If you think libertarians are eroding your freedoms you need to put down your Mao biography and take a fucking online political science course.
_________________________
I would eat Allie Sin's asshole until I got an emotion out of her.-Jerkules
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#492283 - 07/22/10 11:07 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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^^^ Before the governments attempt to monopolize charity in this country, there were plenty of mutual aid societies that helped people. There are still are a lot of privately run food banks and other charities despite the governments best efforts to run them out of business.
Just because you're a liberal progressive Chuck, should I assume you would take that to the extreme of full blown communism? Then why must you assume that every Libertarian wants full blown anarchy?
I don't go far enough down the Libertarian line for anarchy. What I would like to see are those things you mentioned run by private industry (again) with government oversight only. Let private enterprise make these things less expensive to operate and reduce our need for a bloated federal bureaucracy that costs tax payers more and more every year as fewer and fewer people are paying in.
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#492284 - 07/22/10 11:42 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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Quote:
^^^ Before the governments attempt to monopolize charity in this country, there were plenty of mutual aid societies that helped people. There are still are a lot of privately run food banks and other charities despite the governments best efforts to run them out of business.
Just because you're a liberal progressive Chuck, should I assume you would take that to the extreme of full blown communism? Then why must you assume that every Libertarian wants full blown anarchy?
I don't go far enough down the Libertarian line for anarchy. What I would like to see are those things you mentioned run by private industry (again) with government oversight only. Let private enterprise make these things less expensive to operate and reduce our need for a bloated federal bureaucracy that costs tax payers more and more every year as fewer and fewer people are paying in.
No, there was a very real need for Social Security. Old people were starving. Insane people were locked away. Handicapped people were just shit out of luck. No church or charity is going to be able to provide all the things these people need. It is society's collective responsibility, yours and mine.
Socialism is not the aim of the progressive movement, not for me at least. A capitalist system with distributional justice and a truly representative government, along with individual social liberties, is my aim. Freedom that includes access to education, fair working jobs with living wages, protections for periods of unemployment and disability, and access to public lands and recreation. A government that acts in the interests of the people, not corporations. Fair elections.
Libertarians are basically trying to have it both ways, social liberals who don't want to pay taxes or take responsibility for their place in society. Selfish people who say just give me my money and I'll take care of myself.
Our defense budget and the tax cuts for the rich are fueling the huge budget crisis conservatives caused. Libertarian thinking folks who kept cutting and kept cutting until the fed and state Governments are in financial crisis. They borrowed against Social Security! Alms for the poor aren't breaking the country, corporations and financial institutions who control Congress, and do not pay their fair share for the resources they use, along with the conservative generated wars, are the problem, or the creation of the problem. We are so far in debt now, servicing that debt will become a millstone.
I am the type of civil libertarian liberal who attended a presentation in Cincinnati by Nadine Straussen (sp?), former ACLU head, about her book "Defending Pornography". I'm a civil libertarian who defends 2nd amendment rights. Government should empower people, not restrain them. Corporations and the rich should do their fair share to support that empowerment.
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#492285 - 07/22/10 12:29 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Pervert
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 2056
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Please, enough with the "tax cuts for the rich" bullshit! Most of the Americans are net beneficiaries of the government budget; they get much more from the government than they pay in taxes. At the same time, a small minority of "rich" pays pretty much the whole bill. So obviously, if you're going to lower taxes, you can only lower them for people who actually pay taxes. Otherwise it's just another handout to the unproductive.
_________________________
"If you keep making fun of me, I might just get pissed and not post on here anymore. Start taking me seriously. I'm a student now" Fatja
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#492287 - 07/22/10 02:04 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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@ Chuck
And just how well has the government run Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid so far? Are they all not facing financial trouble? You're right it is societies responsibility to help people, but not the governments. I'm not saying we should necessarily defund these things, only allow private enterprise to lower the costs of operating them.
I can't see why anyone would be against making something operate more efficiently and cost less money. Go to reason.tv and check out the videos of how charter schools are making a real difference to Oakland and Cleavland inner city students, it's amazing.
Liberal Progressivism leads to socialism/communism, while Conservative Progressivism leads to fascism. Both communism and fascism lead to totalitarianism. Libertarianism leads to anarchy (no government at all). As I said Chuck, these are not absolutes only the slippery slopes on which these ideologies sit. If you think Libertarianism is about uncontrolled greed, then you don't really know anything about it.
For me it's about transparency / accountability of government, shouldering your own responsibilities, and allowing the private sector to generate enough wealth to pay for the costs of government. Without that wealth you have nothing at all. The more rules and regulations you pile on, the less these private enterprises make, the less money people who work for them make, and the less revenue the government receives as a result.
Although what is fueling our budget crisis is not a revenue problem but a spending problem. It didn't cut it's way into this crisis it spent it's way into this crisis. I noticed they had to steal from Social Security to help pay for Obamacare too. Do you still think politicians should be running it? No, entitlements themselves are not breaking the bank, yet, the waste in them, and all sectors of government, are. The problem is this waste is a systemic part of being run by the government. If you want to remove the waste you have to remove government control.
Every time I have to go to Malaysia I have to bring a bribe in order to do business there. Whether it's money or gifts, that's just the way it is. In America you just need to give the right candidate enough of a campaign contribution to get what you want. Is it the businesses fault for offering the money or the politicians fault for accepting?
Is a bigger more complicated and intrusive government, really better for our economy and our personal freedoms? The evidence so far says no and I'm not really willing to let us slip further down that rabbit hole to find out if it gets better, the bigger it gets. As far as I'm concerned big government has had it's shot at running things and has failed miserably. It's time for some real change.
What it comes down to is this, vote Democrat, if you want a bigger more intrusive government, vote Republican, if you want a bigger more intrusive government, or vote Libertarian if you want a smaller less intrusive government. As always the choice is yours and just that simple.
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#492288 - 07/22/10 03:36 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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Croc, that's a crock, I've already fought that fight on here.
Yes, Social Security and Medicare, Medicaid, etc. have been very successful.
We endured 8 years of that trickle down voodoo economics, where tax cuts are supposed to increase revenue. Doesn't seem to work.
I support public campaign financing, to get the big money out of campaigns. Want a broadcast license? Pony up some air time for democracy.
I've seen some instances of Government budgets being starved into privatization. Contractors running campgrounds in National Forests where fees have doubled, age discounts are no longer valid, services are cut, and many campgrounds are closed because the contractor couldn't turn a profit. The privatized reservation system is a nightmare.
It is attractive to sit on internet forums taking cheap shots at the Government and saying taxes are bad. How'd that small Government stuff work out on the Deep Water Horizon? How about in cities like Colorado Springs where the police are saying they don't have the funding to respond to much more than immediate threats to life - no response to a robbery in progress, or car accidents. No investigations.
How'd that limited Government intervention work with the banking sector?
Malaysia seems to be libertarian as far as manufacturing. Wanna get a job in a factory there? Do you think safety, environmental, and decent living wage laws would improve things? How about we stop imports from places that didn't have these requirements? Would that level the playing field for U.S. workers?
Ha! Coke thinks it takes an unobtainable utopia to manage to let everyone live a decent life in a capitalistic society. Is this the basis of all the hate, a fear that there isn't enough material wealth to go around?
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#492290 - 07/22/10 08:00 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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Who is paying for these programs? What do the statistics show?
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#492291 - 07/22/10 10:22 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 3703
Loc: Sleeping through my funeral
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Quote:
@ Chuck
And just how well has the government run Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid so far? Are they all not facing financial trouble? You're right it is societies responsibility to help people, but not the governments. I'm not saying we should necessarily defund these things, only allow private enterprise to lower the costs of operating them.
I can't see why anyone would be against making something operate more efficiently and cost less money. Go to reason.tv and check out the videos of how charter schools are making a real difference to Oakland and Cleavland inner city students, it's amazing.
Liberal Progressivism leads to socialism/communism, while Conservative Progressivism leads to fascism. Both communism and fascism lead to totalitarianism. Libertarianism leads to anarchy (no government at all). As I said Chuck, these are not absolutes only the slippery slopes on which these ideologies sit. If you think Libertarianism is about uncontrolled greed, then you don't really know anything about it.
For me it's about transparency / accountability of government, shouldering your own responsibilities, and allowing the private sector to generate enough wealth to pay for the costs of government. Without that wealth you have nothing at all. The more rules and regulations you pile on, the less these private enterprises make, the less money people who work for them make, and the less revenue the government receives as a result.
Although what is fueling our budget crisis is not a revenue problem but a spending problem. It didn't cut it's way into this crisis it spent it's way into this crisis. I noticed they had to steal from Social Security to help pay for Obamacare too. Do you still think politicians should be running it? No, entitlements themselves are not breaking the bank, yet, the waste in them, and all sectors of government, are. The problem is this waste is a systemic part of being run by the government. If you want to remove the waste you have to remove government control.
Every time I have to go to Malaysia I have to bring a bribe in order to do business there. Whether it's money or gifts, that's just the way it is. In America you just need to give the right candidate enough of a campaign contribution to get what you want. Is it the businesses fault for offering the money or the politicians fault for accepting?
Is a bigger more complicated and intrusive government, really better for our economy and our personal freedoms? The evidence so far says no and I'm not really willing to let us slip further down that rabbit hole to find out if it gets better, the bigger it gets. As far as I'm concerned big government has had it's shot at running things and has failed miserably. It's time for some real change.
What it comes down to is this, vote Democrat, if you want a bigger more intrusive government, vote Republican, if you want a bigger more intrusive government, or vote Libertarian if you want a smaller less intrusive government. As always the choice is yours and just that simple.
yeah, let's destroy social security, let you southern boys work till you drop fucking dead...its what it's come to in this country where everythings been skewed so far to the right that you have been brain washed so bad that you literally SCREEEEEEAM for the right to work your self to death....all the while with all your capitalist masters who's ass you endlessly felch will use you until you're burned up and bled dry and then just ship your job to some country with people desperate enough to do the same work for 2 cents an hour at the age of 9 while inhaling lead fumes...... "rugged individualism, pull your selves up by your bootstraps, manifest destiny" horse shit it's the southern states that are literally propped up with federal money piped in non stop to keep your worthless shitstain states from dissolving into dystopian mad max-esque hell holes. If the south was given the right to succeed from the union it would deteriorate into a third world country in less than a year. you're actually sighting milton? bwahahaha, that's like a parody of a parody.....I'll be gladly sitting on my fat fucking ass in 5 years cashing a wellfare check while you can enjoy getting sand and shrapnel shoved up your ass in iraq war phase 4 for $16000 a year, enjoy your cardboard box under a bridge when you get home, cause amerika supp0rts it's trupes!!! ....But at least you got to kill some brown people and that makes it all worthwhile.
_________________________
Leave your mind open, receptive to the demons message.
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#492293 - 07/23/10 10:22 PM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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Wow. My initial post of the film clip of Enron energy traders raping California struck a nerve.
To clarify.
Allowing corporations free reign to seek maximum profit at all costs is inherently detrimental to society.
Therefore, imperfect regulations must be imposed upon those corporations to prevent them from steamrolling people.
Republican/Libertarians believe that regulations are not needed because the "marketplace" will sort transgressions out after the fact.
Democrats/Progressives want to try predetermine the "marketplace" so nothing excessive happens.
Given that simplistic setup, let's posit a scenario:
Deepwater Horizon Blowout in the Gulf of Mexico.
My opinion, it was the fault of Republican/Libertarians who undercut the regulations needed to proceed with such an operation.
Now, the Republican/Libertarians are "revisioning" saying that the Democrats/Progressives didn't do enough upon taking power in 2008 to "houseclean" MMS, so it's all Obama's fault!
Time to watch that initial Enron clip again...
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#492294 - 07/24/10 02:14 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 2512
Loc: Slumberland
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Quote:
Is it possible that we just start a Douche Bags Arguing Politics forum here? Separate from AWOP.
Great idea.
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#492295 - 07/26/10 07:09 AM
Re: Does Anyone Remember Enron?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
yeah, let's destroy social security, let you southern boys work till you drop fucking dead...its what it's come to in this country where everythings been skewed so far to the right that you have been brain washed so bad that you literally SCREEEEEEAM for the right to work your self to death....all the while with all your capitalist masters who's ass you endlessly felch will use you until you're burned up and bled dry and then just ship your job to some country with people desperate enough to do the same work for 2 cents an hour at the age of 9 while inhaling lead fumes...... "rugged individualism, pull your selves up by your bootstraps, manifest destiny" horse shit it's the southern states that are literally propped up with federal money piped in non stop to keep your worthless shitstain states from dissolving into dystopian mad max-esque hell holes. If the south was given the right to succeed from the union it would deteriorate into a third world country in less than a year. you're actually sighting milton? bwahahaha, that's like a parody of a parody.....I'll be gladly sitting on my fat fucking ass in 5 years cashing a wellfare check while you can enjoy getting sand and shrapnel shoved up your ass in iraq war phase 4 for $16000 a year, enjoy your cardboard box under a bridge when you get home, cause amerika supp0rts it's trupes!!! ....But at least you got to kill some brown people and that makes it all worthwhile.
You do realize that this ^^^ is the reason they don't let people your age run for federal office?
Listen all that money you're bitching about going to the south goes to nuclear power plants and military bases. You know the bases the north have been paying for since the occupation of the south began and you carpet baggers don't really want in your back yards.
Feel free to cut off any welfare money to the southern states and our states would be glad to opt out paying in. All the dead-beats would just move north. While anyone stuck here on welfare and worth saving from progressive enslavement would stay and tough it out until finding work. Win-win.
Since the average world salary is around $14,000 a year and that's what the progressives are aiming to redistribute Americas wealth down to, wouldn't the $16k military position be a top job?
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