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#72983 - 12/07/04 07:06 PM Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
ChickenMaster Offline
Demon Spawn

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 3178
Russian scientists are selecting volunteers to be locked in a capsule for 500 days to test plans for a trip to Mars.

The mock mission is designed to simulate the tough conditions of a space trip to the Red Planet.

A team of six men will be physically cut off from the outside world to test equipment intended to make them self-sufficient for long periods.

Their capsule will consist of a bedroom, a kitchen and a laboratory.

The capsule's own equipment should make all of the oxygen they need, repeatedly recycle three tonnes of water and grow some food to add to five tonnes of supplies packed inside.

The experiment, to be based in Moscow, tests a plan to make long-range space travel and settlements possible.


But such a real Mars mission is not going to happen any time soon.

Scientists only have two of their six volunteers so far and will not begin the mock-up mission until some time in 2006.

'Bed rest'

Russia holds several space records, including the record for the longest amount of time spent in space.

That honour goes to cosmonaut Valery Polyakov, who lived on the Mir space station for 438 days in 1994-1995.

Scientists are concerned about the effects on the human body of such lengthy periods in space.

Muscle waste, bone formation, changes in the immune system and psychological wellbeing are some of the areas being researched.

Various space agencies are also conducting experiments designed to simulate conditions in space.

A series of bed-rest studies were carried out in 2001 by the European, French and Japanese space agencies.

These involved volunteers lying on a bed with the head of the bed tilted six degrees below horizontal for a period of 90 days, to replicate weightlessness.

The European Space Agency in October repeated a call for female volunteers to participate in a 60-day bed-rest study planned for next February.

Russia's most recent solo project to Mars was the Mars 96 Orbiter, launched in 1996.

The spacecraft failed to achieve orbit around the Red Planet and in November the same year, re-entered the Earth's atmosphere and crashed.

© BBC MMIV

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4076421.stm

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#72984 - 12/07/04 07:22 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

That honour goes to cosmonaut Valery Polyakov, who lived on the Mir space station for 438 days in 1994-1995.



He stayed in LEO, well within the magnetosphere. Transit to Mars will be exposed to any CMEs that happen and will require a heavily (in all ways) shielded retreat. Picture all six in a phone booth for several days...

Quote:

These involved volunteers lying on a bed with the head of the bed tilted six degrees below horizontal for a period of 90 days, to replicate weightlessness.



You could get the results they'll see by studying the average American couch potato. Weightlessness is something else entirely.
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#72985 - 12/08/04 05:15 AM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
Toelicker Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 3899
Loc: CO Springs
Good points jrv. They would ideally have simulated gravity on the real trip. Otherwise, there are any number of physiological problems to be overcome. Many areas of the body are adversely effected by weightlessness . . . from the heart, to the bone, to the bones .
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#72986 - 12/08/04 06:53 AM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
Ivor Biggun Offline
Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 1176
Quote:

Good points jrv. They would ideally have simulated gravity on the real trip. Otherwise, there are any number of physiological problems to be overcome. Many areas of the body are adversely effected by weightlessness . . . from the heart, to the bone, to the bones .




This can be achieved a couple of ways without needing any new sort of artificial gravity technology.

1. have a rotating spaceship (would need a pretty big radius to feel right.)

2. Accelerate at a constant 9.8 ms^2 to the halfway point, flip around and decelerate at -9.8 ms^2 the rest of the way.
(This would require an absurd amount of fuel with current propulsion technology. Would make for a fast journey though.)
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#72987 - 12/08/04 11:46 AM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

1. have a rotating spaceship (would need a pretty big radius to feel right.)



I doubt the rotating wheel needs to "feel right" (which would require a radius of hundreds of feet, maybe more) to be biologically useful. A tenth G might be enough. And if the astronauts need to adjust to an environment that doesn't "feel right" so what?

The Russians already have enough data on long-duration stays in zero-G for human beings. There may be lingering questions about what happens at the cellular level in terms of orientation but those won't be answered this way. And I'm not convinced such affects are real since humans do just fine lying down and getting up whenever they want; i.e., the cell can't depend on a particular gravitational orientation for any period of time anyway.

It's possible that after a long Mars mission there will be enough bone mass loss to require extensive rehabilitation. Some people will go nuts I suppose if astronauts have to spend a year in the hospital upon return. I say big deal - there will be no shortage of qualified volunteers for a mission as long as full recovery is likely, even if it requires a year or two in the hospital, as long as they can write their papers and deliver lectures while recovering (and there would be plenty of qualified volunteers for much riskier missions).

You can't simulate every parameter and shouldn't waste effort on experiments whose results won't tell you anything new about the planned mission (a Mars mission is not like spending a year in a hospital bed with your head at a funny angle). Once you've gathered all the data possible just do it to the limit of reasonably expected safety, which is the only way to learn where the actual dangers lie. The only ways to improve on the Russian long-duration MIR experiment results are to either do more of them on ISS, which poses political problems, or to do a Mars mission (which is certainly risky but zero-G seems reasonably likely not to kill the astronauts).

Maintaining 1G in transit isn't realistic, but would a tenth G be hopeless if you had a nuclear reactor for power, a really big ion engine (lots of thrusters), and really, really big fuel tanks? I have no idea.

PS. CME = Coronal Mass Ejection. Think of it as a solar fart.
_________________________
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#72988 - 12/08/04 11:51 AM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
zenman Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 8160
Loc: Roma, Repubblica Italiana
I would think you'd have problems with your lungs if you were in a weightless environment for a long time. Wouldn't your diaphragm become weak?
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#72989 - 12/08/04 01:56 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

I would think you'd have problems with your lungs if you were in a weightless environment for a long time. Wouldn't your diaphragm become weak?



Astronauts breath even in zero G so I see no reason that the diaphragm works less hard.

It's possible someone might be tempted to use a low pressure air environment, but that has other problems and doesn't seem worth the risk.
_________________________
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#72990 - 12/08/04 03:01 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
jamesn Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
would you poop any different on mars? inquiring humanities students need to know....
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Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits

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#72991 - 12/08/04 03:14 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

would you poop any different on mars? inquiring humanities students need to know....



It depends on whether or not the outhouse is heated!
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#72992 - 12/08/04 05:06 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
Youse mooks are missing the most important point- Mars needs women
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#72993 - 12/08/04 05:12 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
ChickenMaster Offline
Demon Spawn

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 3178
Quote:

Youse mooks are missing the most important point- Mars needs women





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#72994 - 12/08/04 05:23 PM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
Can't the Russians just find some Chechens to "volunteer" for this mission
_________________________
"Some say I'm lazy and others say that is just me. Some say I'm crazy, I guess I'll always be"

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#72995 - 12/09/04 03:15 AM Re: Russian Call For Mars Volunteers
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Quote:

would you poop any different on mars? inquiring humanities students need to know....




I heard that on Mars you may not have to poop for as long as five days, which will really save a lot of space as regards toilet paper.

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