So as many of you know , i am a monkeyboy tarbender/waiter for a living. I am currently having a bitter argument about debit payment. Them: it's 'convenient'. Me: no, it's not. Cash is easy to carry around and accepted pretty much everywhere. Folks gotta stand there and make sure shit goes thru, the business (and often the client) has to pay to use it, it's a pain in the ass being behing six people paying for a vente coffee with plastic, etc etc. Am I insane?

No, you are right.

They slow down a lot of things. Especially the seemingly calculus quiz the card readers give the users when they swipe their cards. I'm guilty of using the debit card when I shouldn't but it's simply because my local bank was bought by TD Bank and now there are hardly any ATMs for me to get cash. My money is deposited electronically and it's hard for me to get by a bank to get cash but I try to keep a hundred or so on me at most times but confess buying a 2.00 breakfast wrap with a debit card. I have about 30.00 in my pocket right now and if I were to go out tonight I'd probably use the debit card to avoid tapping down below that threshold.

I like debit because I can download the transaction and track it easily against my budget. Under $10 I pay cash. Over $20 I use credit (for the same reason plus I get travel points).

Just another attempt by the banks to get cash out of people's hands. They try to make it as difficult as possible for you to get YOUR money out of THEIR bank. I would be interested to know, if there is a difference in when the cash shows up in your account whether you use the same bank as your employer or a different one. One job I worked offered direct deposit, but then I wouldn't have my money until Tuesday, instead of Friday. What fucking good is a pocket full of cash on a Tuesday? I never heard anyone say, "There's aint nuthin like being a nigger on TUESDAY night!"

And they are charging the shit out of you to do it. I am paying $18 a month for a checking account that has 2checks, 2-3 deposits and maybe 5 other transactions a month. If I had my shit together, I'd just go all money orders and the occasional $100 Visa gift card.

Back on track, they been paying you cash or check? You could just go to the bank and empty the card once a week. There is nothing like a minimum balance you have to keep on it or a withdrawal limit is there?

I have no transaction limits and no fees. My paycheck is deposited electronically by my choice and is, to all appearances, available on midnight of payday before I've even been to work. I've never run low on funds and pushed the limits so I don't know. I'm not bragging I'm just saying I can't answer that.

I do get charged for out of network ATM transactions so that's why I avoid them. I'm looking for another local bank who knows they don't have the ATM network and offer free ATM fees as an incentive. They're out there.

As it is, my company's bank makes the direct deposit into a checking account, I go online and pay bills etc and sweep the rest into a savings account with the same bank.

Sorry B, I was trying to ask Tatty. I understand direct deposit. What I think his place is going for is issuing employees a debit card and reloading them on payday. Which in hindsight, makes my question about when funds are available moot.

I forget where I was, but I remember someone saying the place his daughter worked did they same thing, and she loved it. Her tips were spending money, and she let the money pile up in the account, and used it just for bills. If she is ever audited that would bite this unknown girl in the butt, because if you never take out cash here and there, they will be suspicious about how you pay day to day costs (gas, food, etc).

so along the lines of bornyos post @tatty..

are you paying transaction fees?. if so then i'd consider that a pretty big issue.

i direct deposit(funds available the same day) and use a credit card that earns me points for every purchase. i'm not really understanding the issue with that as most places in my area don't require a signature for a purchase $25.00 and under. in almost every case it's quicker than watching some numbnuts try and do the math when i toss a fifty at them. i dont really care what the line behind me looks like when i'm earning points on my card nor do i give a fuck that the establishment i'm frequenting suffers a three percent charge on their 300 percent markup item. am i insane?.

We ( the business) get charged transaction fees; and those fucking gay-ass hand held card readers aren't cheap either. That cost gets passed along, folks. If the customer is getting dinged too, the prick banks are yet again getting a fucking cut on money that isn't even theirs.
Try doing cash and carry at the bar when some anus just has his debit card. That and a table full of broads who wanna pay separately all asking you how your hand held works (theyre not standardised) when you have six other tables to see. Seriously, is money really heavy? Are the corners too sharp?
I also don't like the fact that it leaves a record of what ive been tipped ( though this pisses me off less than being stuck behind the elderly/waiting for a drunk guy on the phone to run his card).

OH, I thought it was a paycheck via debit card, not that your bar is starting to accept debt and credit cards.

The 6 broads at a table scenario must suck. If they are to anal to just divide equally, that must mean 6 shitty tips instead of one shitty tip.

those costs should get passed along and you make up for it on every cash customer.

and whats the markup on a rum and coke?. you might have a buck fifty into it at best(i know that's high) and then there's a tip(which you deserve). i get the six broads at a table bit but that's the business you're in.

I love my debit card, and I'm intrigued by bitcoin. That said, if you don't like debit cards or banks, things are even worse than you think: we're using obsolete magstripes for debit & credit cards. Everybody else (even Canadians!) have long since upgraded to embedded chips in cards, which tend to be more secure as they utilize a system not unlike RSA tokens. "Kingpin" by Kevin Poulsen is worth a read if you're interested in that sort of thing.

for another thread, but women ages 29 to mid 60's are the fucking worst (in the caucasian categegory) . That and fags. It's a myth about queers. Old school homos are great, but the new generation of fags and teh womenz have been empowered by this media bullshit and Sex and the City.
White guys in suits (hey Tri!) are usually the best and one guy usually grabs the cheque (and industry peeps are good).

Naw, i get paid by plain ol' cheque, but the deductions are tiny as servers are paid like shit (and im ok with that). But like i said, plastic is making it all too easy to track. I fear it's gonna hurt business in the long run. Cash is King, as it should be.

I'll check that book out.

Someone thought about the coffee situation in a different light.

I carry it for safety. My bank will back me up 100% in the case of fraud and identity theft. Plus, if I get jumped by Tyrone outside the gas station, what's he gonna do? Run and try and use my card with my white mug in the upper-left corner to purchase some cigarettes and grape-flavored blunt wrappers for his black ass? This is assuming I already haven't contacted my bank, which I would have.

I used to get paid on a debit card and it was BULLSHIT. Unless you had direct deposit, you had to withdraw all of your money off of the card the first time after each payday, or it would charge you $5.00 for every withdrawel in addition to the ATM fees.

I only use cash for the black market.

The mechanic I used to go to had two billing scales, one for cash/check customers and another for people using credit or debit cards. He was a small independent business and the bank ripped him a new one for debit and credit card payments every month so he padded bills to offset bank fees for debit/credit payments to his business. This was back in the 90s and the bank he used for business charged a percentage of the transaction rather than a flat fee per transaction because his business didn't do over a certain number of transactions a month to qualify for a flat fee.

I'm seeing more and more gas stations offer an additional 3-5 cents off a gallon when paid with cash. I'm also seeing more restaurants offer 10% off for cash payments.

The mechanic I take my cars to has two billing scales as well, but he takes no cards of any kind. Level #1 is for greenbacks, level #2 if you write a check that he has to record & bank.

Fartz:"I carry it for safety."
I get that , but it's total bullshit here (though maybe not where you are). We are a city of over a million people and we had like 12 murders last year. People just aren't victims of violent crime in these parts. BUT debit card scams (usually russians and lebs) are way the fuck up.
And though the folks who have been skimmed usually got their money back, it was a huge fucking hassle.

Yeah, I was going to mention that you being in Canada was probably a non-factor in my argument, but I didn't want to patronize you.

I use debit. And I don't mind people tacking on a fee or requiring debit charges be over 5 bucks. If I go to the corner store and buy a coke the cost is 1.00 cash or 1.30 debit. Of course I could buy a ton of stuff and the fee would still be 30 cents. Right there up front.

I am in Canada. I see why it is a hassle but "work" isn't called "fun" for a very distinct reason.

It's way easier for me to track my spending with debit. I am shitty with money and it's nice to be able to easily check what I spent at the grocery store last week, or whatever.

Online banking and paying a little extra is way better for me than keeping track of cash.

And why not just take the tip out of the factor and demand a 20-25% up front tip from debit payers. It's no different than knowing that I have a .30 cent fee for a debit can of coke.

Even when I'm splitting a tab with someone and they put it on there card, I'll tell them to put 0 as the tip, then I'll leave the tip cash and hand over the rest of my half. Some people get pissed about that, but fuck em, I aint an ATM machine.

tattypatty you're from Canada? Damn, we're going to be taking over this board!

Don't get ahead of your self, Brandon brings enough demerits to the table to cover the whole lot of you.

and then there's the fact that brandon doesn't even want to be Canadian anymore.

Hopefully they're from west of Calgary so I a can't understand them.

I can hear you, y'know.

tax time is soon approaching Bi. how much is uncle sam getting out of you this year?.

Well, son, keep yer ears open and yer mouth shut, and everything will go just fine.

I use debit/credit more than cash but have a no-fee card. Most bars that I'm aware of don't even accept anything except cash at the bar though.

I pay cash as often as possible. I hate giving my credit card number to small vendors. Fucking gas stations here clone cards all the time. I pull money from my bank's ATM which I can walk to every week or so.

Cash burns a hole in my pocket. If I take $100 to the bar, I spend a $100

Plus, I hate change. With the Looney and Twooney up here, it just makes it a pain in the ass. If everything was rounded up to the nearest 5, I would carry more cash.

Around home I don't carry much cash, and use my card often. When I look at the old lady in line at the checkout counter still writing checks, I just don't really feel I'm holding things up much using the card.

^^^^

Walgreens is the absolute worst for this. Fucking old ladies spend 15 minutes trying to utilize and understand the 15 fucking coupons falling through their fingers, then have the nerve to spend another ten writing a goddamn check while trying to be cordial and talk to the clerk the whole fucking time. I am not fond of the elderly at all.

In a waiter/waitress situation, EVERYONE knows it's courteous to pay CASH. Everyone should know by now that wait staff has to eat that 10% or whatever of the usage charge for cards. If you don't have cash, at least tip in cash.

Am I right, Tatty? On the right track?

If you're dining with multiple people, try paying cash. I don't like sitting there while my waiter takes a million years with the check because now there's 5 different credit cards to split up.

Starbucks where it's just me and I'm in and out, plastic seems easier than waiting for me to dig out crumpled up bills and change with a 9am line behind me.

It all comes down to how people spend these days. Most people get direct deposit and pay everything with debit card- credit when the checking acct depletes.

I kick it old school: deposit check and give myself a cash allowance until next check.

I love using credit cards for huge purchases to earn points. I haven't paid airfare in years! Thanks, AMEX! But I pay my balance back at end of month.

Tipping. Here's a tip for a waiter/ waitress: Get a real job. Your band isn't going to hit.

Before everyone starts in on the reasons people work, by choice, at low paying service gigs, I've heard them all. Get a real job.

That shit should be included in wages or reflected on the bill. That is why take out food is the way to go. Sorry Tatty. Gratuity being compulsory is just insulting.

That's great, cdq, but some of us like dining out sometimes for different scenery and relaxation.

My sister just texted me to tell me she won a free date at a restaurant/hippy-bar for Valentine's Day. I told her to get ready for a date with one of their line-cooks on his night off and that she'll be expected to pay for drinks.

So what gia? Gratuity should be given when you are feeling happy, not compulsory or cause trouble for the staff. The price of the food on the bill ought to be the amount of money you pay. Not some extra percentage to be calculated later on.

Totally optional if you want to tip. Pay staff living wages.

Think the way it works in Japan... No tipping is necessary.

I never said scenery or relaxation should be different. I said staff should be paid properly and there should be no arbitrary extra amount of money required to relax and enjoy the scenery. Just pay what the bill says and take off when you are done.

Wow, Barry. Never expected a douche post like that from you. From my civil service friends who are swimming in debt and live with their unfuckable spouses, yeah. But not a fellow xpt mope.
Please define real job. Working for the government? Working for a relative's company? Selling pot? Doing porn? Internet bullshit?
I had a 'real job" at 21 , working for the national archives and it was the single worst employment experience of my entire life: A windowless office in the middle of the building, surrounded by unambitious depressed drones who looked like they might hang themselves/go on a shooting rampage on any given day. I also had an incredible bar job on the weekends that was a pussy smorgasborg and chugfest. I have no regrets over the choice i made.

A real job is the job that pays the bills, my man. I'm 100% ok with what i do, and while I ain't Donald Trump, my gig has afforded me a freedom that I really enjoy.

Since gia missed my point, Tatty it's that you should be paid in a way that tipping really is to show gratitude. Not that restaurants and bars are not legit jobs.

No need to say sorry, big man. But look at the other side: I worked at a place where the dumb and unskilled bubble heads were allowed to auto-grat tables. They were shitty waitresses but still got teh moniez. Secondly, half the places you dig boozing at would be shuttered in weeks if the bossman had to pay more than 8 bucks an hour.
Anyhoo, this is a little off-topic. Debit is a pain in the ass. Cash is still king (for now). And i promise i won't spit in anything if you send it back...

TittyPiddy, I'm not sure why Barry was so negative, but it might just be that some people can't relate to the personable, outgoing type that work in the service industry. I have a personality and mouth that should never be unleashed on the general public. I could never be a server or even a cashier. I'm more of a store room, warehouse type person just because I could never deal with the public without causing waves.

Maybe Barry is the same type and just looks down on people who can get by with their personality & friendliness to get tips. Just a theory. And, I personally have no problem with waiters, waitresses, bartenders, etc. They have to put up with so much shit that I could never possibly deal with without strangling someone.

I know a lotta people who are on other side of that fence; they have zero concept of how much they spend because it all magically goes on a card.
If you go to the casino/card house, do not bring plastic. ever.
The coins are bit of a pain in the ass weight wise, but it's nice to sort through all of your change and realize you actually have a ton of cash.

Tatty, are Canadians shitty tippers on their home turf? When Canadians come to the US, they're second only to blacks for being shitty tippers.

Have you ever had the displeasure of serving gypsies?

as a rule they are pretty good. Apparently Vancouver is not great. Ha a family of gypsies was out going through purses etc in the restaurant district a few years years ago here.
White southerners are pretty good when they come up here. And we had a buncha firemen and cops from Cleveland, Pittburgh etc come up here for a big deal ages ago when i worked a diner and they were great. So was Superfly Jimmy Snuka ( he is also the only celeb i've ever served get mobbed to the point of pandemonium).
If I never served another Black American woman, soldier or affleet again, I would be pretty okay with it.

It was a douche post because in my lifetime tipping has gone from a voluntary thing because you were pleased with a service, to a compulsory that is not only expected but demanded. I've also lived from the "customary" tip being 10% to today's what, 20%? And these "customary" amounts are completely arbitrary, made up by who?

Believe me tatt, I wasn't calling out anyone with a low paying gig. I certainly have held, and continue to hold shit jobs. Soul destroying piece of shit, go nowhere, get shit on daily gigs. Gigs that I've busted my ass on. But never have I been offered a tip. "Oh, the pay those poor wait staff so little. We're helping pay their wages." I've worked for server money before. No one thought I needed a tip.

And you're not helping pay their wages. You're making it easier for service business owners to pay their people shit. And don't think for a second that same owner isn't skimming off the top. If it horrifies you that the waitstaff at Huckabee's gets paid minimum, write a letter, vote with your feet. Eat somewhere that does pay their waitstaff a decent wage. Don't pretend you're saving the world by going along with a "custom" that only helps business owners. I don't give a squat what my server makes, so I can eat anywhere, not tip and still sleep...not well, but at least in the normal terror that rules my dreams.

And I'm all for business owners, but this subsidy to help them do business is just crazy.

As to what a "real job" is, it's one where your livelihood isn't dependent on shaking down customers. I seriously wasn't blanket covering everyone who makes a lower wage, cuz I'm one of them. No offense intended, tatt.

I could honestly go on about tipping forever. That, and the inability to wait in line, are what's tearing down society.

Barry, I'm what's considered a good tipper, but I share your sentiments. Things would be better if the price on the menu was the price you paid and yes, the only beneficiary is the owner of the restaurant. When you eat a a nicer place, the waiters are paying out the bartender, the busboys, the maitre d and the hostess out of their tips, while the restaurant owner doesn't pay a living wage. Yes, the customer pays it all, or at least the responsible ones do but the owner gets off scot-free on the accounting and associated taxes as do, to a certain extent, the servers.

to each their own. keep in mind the 'customary' thing is on you; there is no legislation forcing anyone to tip and i'm completely okay with that. As i said to Conq, most places would close if they had to pay a living wage. I'd be taken aback if anyone actually demanded a tip. The only time it's been a bone of contention is when people have been either ultra demanding/dragging screaming kids or arrogant/showoff fuckfaces who left me a penny or some shit to be funny. Don't act baller if you're not baller.
The overwhelming majority of my folks are repeat customers; they A) never give any indication i am 'shaking them down' (nor do i feel shook when i go out) and B) are not getting their car/waterheater fixed or any other horrible necessity. Noone is forced to dine/booze out. People are free to come or not to come. "vote with your feet" as you say. It's imperative we do what we can to get them to back. That's it...

Funny, the leb kid around the corner just got back from Sydney where they do get paid well (he's a waiter at my landlord's joint) and nobody tips.
He noted: Drinks were outrageous, cover charge was absurd, and that the bartenders and waiters coulda gave two shits one way or another at alotta places. So we can argue this both ways. Anyways, another thread, no?