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#466294 - 12/19/09 03:36 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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US military forces shouldn't be there for whatever reason you can come up with. Do you really believe the Iraqi people have a more peaceful and enjoyable life, since the US illegally invaded their country?
WMD? Yeah, did you really believe that?
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#466295 - 12/19/09 03:48 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Bukkake Boy
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 698
Loc: CA
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Quote:
US military forces shouldn't be there for whatever reason you can come up with.
Do you really believe the Iraqi people have a more peaceful and enjoyable life, since the US illegally invaded their country?
WMD? Yeah, did you really believe that?
Here's what I believe...
Bush rammed the planes into the towers, then used explosives to take them down as a pretext to go on attack.
...Right....
Sadam then overplayed his nuke-capability hand, believing that if it was thought that he had WMD's then he would never be removed.
It seems kind of like what's going on in Iran now, except just about anybody with a brain thinks they are actually going for the nuke.
With that being said, if we aren't going to push a button and take out the entire middle-east, we need to be on the ground. And, to answer your question, yes Iraqis now have a much better life because it's not their government killing them.
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#466299 - 12/19/09 05:17 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I am just wondering why a mass grave is newsworthy. Can you think of a better way to dispose of a bunch of dead people?
We are humans! We kill everything. No crying, no loss. Clear them out of the way. A big hole takes fewer resources than a big fire.
Problem solved.
We are humans and we kill.
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#466301 - 12/19/09 05:27 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I was jut trying to say that mass graves are rather efficient.
But I also have no respect for human remains. In an instant a human can go from a man to a bag of garbage.
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#466302 - 12/19/09 05:52 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 14755
Loc: Busy downloading [LEGALLY!]
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Why are you arguing with xvod. He's a poser/troll.
Most recently he ranted against Obama being worse for porn than Bush right at the time Hatch was pounding Obama for abandoning the DOJ's porn wars.
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Amo i Gemelli!!
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#466303 - 12/20/09 01:39 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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I remember an earlier discussion, on this board, about Saddam where Chuck expressed his horror and sadness at the pictures of his sons on the morticians slab. I didn’t say it then but that hit me as ironic that a man half a world away could feel so much more pain and angst over their deaths, than Saddam was capable of feeling himself.
Is there any doubt he ordered the deaths of these Kurdish people? Then ordered them to be interred in to that mass grave? Is there any doubt he kept tens of thousands of political (perceived or real) enemies in prisons, so he could torture, and murder them at his own discretion? Is there any doubt he allowed his sons to keep their (perceived or real) enemies in their own personal prisons so they could torture and murder them at their own discretion?
Saying Iraq was better off under Saddam Hussein is the same thing as saying the USSR was better off under Josef Stalin, or Germany was better off under Adolph Hitler. Why, because they were all malignant narcissists incapable of any kind of human empathy.
You people should be ashamed of yourselves, for letting your Bush hate prop up such a despicable human being. When the only real problem you had is that Bush took him out without your personal permission.
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#466304 - 12/20/09 03:31 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Whoremaster
Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 2512
Loc: Slumberland
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Quote:
Is there any doubt he ordered the deaths of these Kurdish people? Then ordered them to be interred in to that mass grave? Is there any doubt he kept tens of thousands of political (perceived or real) enemies in prisons, so he could torture, and murder them at his own discretion?
Yeah man, I remember when the US stood up to him and said stop. Oh wait, no, actually they sent him a shit load of cash and support and said 'keep on keepin' on good buddy.' Fuckin' please, like you give a shit about any of these people who you would no doubt dismiss as 'sand niggers' if they dared to live down the street from your dumb ass.
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#466305 - 12/20/09 06:18 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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Quote:
I remember an earlier discussion, on this board, about Saddam where Chuck expressed his horror and sadness at the pictures of his sons on the morticians slab. I didn’t say it then but that hit me as ironic that a man half a world away could feel so much more pain and angst over their deaths, than Saddam was capable of feeling himself.
I was not mourning Saddam's sons, I was appalled at the way the U.S. Army publicly displayed the dead bodies. That violates rules of warfare and common decency, to invade a country and publicly display the killed sons of the deposed leader.
BTW, I have for a long time wondered why the Bush (or Obama, for that matter) administration and the media never kept a tab in front of us about things pre- and post- invasion, like electrical power, schools, hospitals and doctors, potable water, jobs, average income, crime rates, etc. as the rebuilding went on. Numbers may be out there, I've not searched hard, but they certainly weren't put in front of the public.
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#466308 - 12/20/09 08:55 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 9782
Loc: Hillbilly Holler
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Free said "Saddam Hussein nor the Iraqi government had anything to do with the attacks on 11 September." Very true and that isn't the reason the U.S. went there. It's a complete myth that the U.S. went there for that and it's also a complete myth that there are large numbers of people in the U.S. that believe that was the reason. Anyone that thinks that knows absolutely nothing about the news or world events.
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I may not know arse but I know what I like !
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#466309 - 12/20/09 09:11 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Why did war criminal Bremer, appointed by the fascist moron from Crawford, Texas, fire the post-Saddam Iraqi army and government, bringing on a conflict that killed thousands of Americans and maiming tens of thousands more? Could it have involved privitization of Iraqi petroleum production?
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#466311 - 12/20/09 09:20 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 7599
Loc: a site known for its tolerance...
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I'm kinda more curious as how you guys feel as Yankees about the US going to war , whether it's Bush in Iraq or Obama (foolishly, IMO) sending more troops into Afghanistam. We could have the 'Saddam was a bad guy' argument all day long. Should the State now go into N. Korea? Iran? Should they bomb China? Cuba?
_________________________
"I'll never forget the moment during the lovely Alyssa Allure's scene in 'American Bukkake' where the fellow got out of his wheel chair to ejaculate on her face. It was grotesque but had a certain frisson." -Sock
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#466312 - 12/20/09 09:21 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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have2cit
I'm slightly disappointed by your comments and line of reasoning.
re. Chuck's comment: How can you determine how Saddam felt about the deaths of his sons? And how can you compare that to Chuck's feelings? This is rather shallow irony, if you ask me.
re. Saddam's crimes against humanity Not much doubt here that he was fully responsible for the crimes perpetrated under his regime.
re. Hitler/Stalin/Saddam It's not the same thing. Just as you cannot compare Hitler's regime to that of Stalin, you can't compare Saddam with either of them. Different times, different countries, cultures, backgrounds, circumstances. It's of an earth-shattering simplicity to lump all of them together and it shows, in my opinion, the lack of appreciation for other people's history. If your definition is the new standard, I'd like to add a few names: Dick Cheney, Noriega, Pinochet, Videla, etc.
re. Shame I'm not ashamed of any of my thoughts. I don't hate Bush nor his administration. I don't agree with most of his political decisions and I doubt if he has a trace of integrity and sincerity in him. I'm not propping up Saddam, but the claim, that post-invasion Iraq is a better place to live, is major bullshit. I encounter stories of utmost atrocity every week, things that would not have happened under Saddam's rule, how despicable he indeed was. The only real problem I have is that the US invaded a country which it wasn't at war with, which didn't propose a threat. It's an illegal invasion and illegal occupation, with rather disastrous results so far.
==================================== jrv
If the US had wanted to come off as somewhat civilized and decent, it would have prevented the showing of the death bodies. These are cave-men practices, which do not instill any trust or respect for the 'new' regime.
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#466314 - 12/20/09 10:25 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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@Clod
You need to quit projecting your personal limitations on other people. Unlike you, I’m not the type of person who can dismiss the out right murder of so many women and children simply because it suits my political beliefs.
@Chuck
You still felt worse than Saddam who felt nothing at all. Stalin and Hitler kept the schools open and the trains running on time. I mean if that’s the only criteria you have for someone being a good leader or person. The reason they took the pictures/video in the first place was probably to confirm their identity. What do you expect when you embed media with the troops, the pictures were leaked? Weren’t you one of the people calling for the dead US troops to be shown on TV when they came back home? Seems like a double standard to me. Yes civilians die in war, it’s a terrible fact, but the US didn’t go in there with the intention to murder them, Saddam did.
@ivor
I don’t think they let anyone from the Nazi party back in control of anything in Germany, why would they do that for the Baath Party? How could they trust anyone from that party? How could they get the support of the Shiite majority, with the same people who have been subjugating them for years, still in power?
@Free
I’m not excusing the reasons or even bringing them up, for starting this war. I’m simply not excusing the death of these Kurdish people and lamenting what a great guy Saddam was because I believe Bush is evil. I know what Saddam felt because he was a malignant narcissist and there are certain behaviors inherent in people with this condition. Lack of any empathy at all is the main characterization. I mean if he gave a rats ass about his sons, why weren’t they as equally protected as him? Why weren’t they with him?
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#466315 - 12/20/09 11:21 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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Quote:
I'm kinda more curious as how you guys feel as Yankees about the US going to war , whether it's Bush in Iraq or Obama (foolishly, IMO) sending more troops into Afghanistam. We could have the 'Saddam was a bad guy' argument all day long. Should the State now go into N. Korea? Iran? Should they bomb China? Cuba?
I opposed the Afghanistan war from the start, as a lot of progressives did. I oppose Obama's escalation. On the other hand, yes, there are neo-cons who believe the U.S. has a Manifest Destiny to spread democracy (and in many minds, Christianity) to the rest of the world. These are the two extremes.
Obama better get out of Afghanistan before 2012 or the majority opinion will be that it is another Vietnam/Iraq/Soviet Afghan experience.
Quote:
@Chuck
You still felt worse than Saddam who felt nothing at all. Stalin and Hitler kept the schools open and the trains running on time. I mean if that’s the only criteria you have for someone being a good leader or person. The reason they took the pictures/video in the first place was probably to confirm their identity. What do you expect when you embed media with the troops, the pictures were leaked? Weren’t you one of the people calling for the dead US troops to be shown on TV when they came back home? Seems like a double standard to me. Yes civilians die in war, it’s a terrible fact, but the US didn’t go in there with the intention to murder them, Saddam did.
I felt no remorse for Saddam's sons, I was glad they were gone. And the issue we were addressing is if the Iraqi people are better off now, so of course things like schools and transportation matter. The media didn't leak the photos. After some debate, Rumsfeld et. al. directed that the "Provisional Authority" put them on a CD with other identifying data and gave it to the Iraqis to distribute in the media. And I have never suggested showing the dead bodies of American troops, that is quite wrong. Showing flag covered caskets is all right, and the media should be allowed to let the people know about casualties. IIRC, a picture was published of a dead Marine in Iraq, and I was disturbed about that.
"Yes civilians die in war, it’s a terrible fact, but the US didn’t go in there with the intention to murder them..." that contradicts itself.
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#466317 - 12/20/09 01:15 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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@Chuck
No it does not contradict itself, because I, like most people and courts of law, can distinguish between premeditated murder and unintended deaths, apparently you cannot or refuse to because of your political or personal beliefs. I think it’s great you can latch on to just one thing and throw every other thing out as inconsequential. If I could do that it would make my life a whole lot simpler too. I guess it doesn’t matter that the Shiite are no longer arrested, openly murdered, and allowed a say in their Government, because Saddam kept the schools open.
Recovery from this sort war will take time. Things are improving all the time. You can’t open a school if someone is going to drive bomb into it. Security has to come first. I can ask the same thing is America better off under Obama. All signs thus far point to no, but wouldn’t it be a little more prudent to wait longer, before passing final judgment?
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#466320 - 12/20/09 05:03 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Was it really worth all that we lost in blood and treasure, almost five thousand dead American soldiers, and more than ten thousand maimed for life, to de-Ba'athify Iraq?
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#466321 - 12/20/09 05:22 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
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Was it worth all the dead buried at Normandy to de-Nazify France?
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I would eat Allie Sin's asshole until I got an emotion out of her.-Jerkules
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#466325 - 12/20/09 06:35 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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What are you gonna do shut me up? BTW I volunteered my time after working hours to help Solidarnosc members resettle in my home town after the hardline Communist coup in 1981. Solidarnosc was the first crack in the Soviet empire that led to its demise. That is the type of "peacenik' that I am. Go ahead and tell me about your years in the armed services shovelling shit in Louisiana. Team America was led by smarter people back in the 80s, like Bob Gates, who BTW is now the DefSec. Too bad that we had to go through eight years of moronic rule following the 2000 fascist coup.
Edited by ivorenginedriver (12/20/09 06:46 PM)
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#466328 - 12/21/09 02:16 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
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Any fucktwat who thinks the 2000 election was a coup was sleeping through his entire high school civics class. The S.C. made the correct call. Your team lost, deal with it and stop blaming the referees. If your demigod Gore could have won his home state Florida wouldn't have mattered.
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I would eat Allie Sin's asshole until I got an emotion out of her.-Jerkules
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#466329 - 12/21/09 06:13 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Anyone who believes that the SCOTUS served as nonpartisan referees following the November, 2000 voting has a high school civics level of knowledge. Those of us with university and post-university degrees see reality, not merely shadows on the walls of caves.
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#466330 - 12/22/09 01:35 AM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
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Sorry, it takes a lot more than two scoops of political ignorance to get me to post a picture of my college diploma here. If Darrah ever saw what my degree was in she would never leave me alone.
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I would eat Allie Sin's asshole until I got an emotion out of her.-Jerkules
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#466332 - 12/22/09 05:09 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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#466333 - 12/22/09 05:31 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Of course that's not the reason, but explaining the reasons for any war to a peace at all coster is as fruitless as explaining to a nut job why he really isn't Napoleon.
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#466334 - 12/22/09 05:41 PM
Re: Another mass grave found in Iraq
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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and what was....December 30 2006???
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