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#459263 - 11/08/09 07:01 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2401
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While they are at it, natioanlize the oil industry to pay for healthcare. How come we can only nationalize failing businesses?
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"Guage once told me that there is nothing worse than eaten ass of a black dude thats been huffen drain cleaner the night befor." - delanoojos
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#459268 - 11/08/09 10:10 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Mid America
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Eh. One of the reasons insurance companies can get away with the shit they do is that they have immunity from anti-trust laws, meaning that an insurance company can set it up so that it's the only game in town. Don't like my policies and rates, bitch? Well, go uninsured! How many of the insurance providers have taken advantage of this loophole to do exactly that? Anyone who answered "all of them!" gets a prize.
WHATEVER ELSE this bill does or doesn't do, whatever damage or good it might have in it, it DOES strip the insurance companies of their monopoly-protection, meaning that they will actually have to offer rates and services in competition with other insurance companies. You know, competition? For the best prices and products? Like, the good old capitalist way?
I'm not crying over THAT aspect of all this.
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Pornography is supposed to arouse sexual desires. If pornography is a crime, when will they arrest makers of perfume? ~Richard Fleischer
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#459269 - 11/09/09 07:06 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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It makes no difference whether it passed or not. The unemployment rate is 10.2 %. If this goes little changed until the next election cycle there will be a new congress full of Republicans and not only will they dismantle this, they will do exactly what Pelosi and Reid did with Bush, block the President at every turn. And the truth is why shouldn't they?
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#459270 - 11/09/09 07:22 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 9782
Loc: Hillbilly Holler
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As far as I'm concerned the demos have said  to seniors and medicare !
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#459271 - 11/09/09 09:44 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 09/07/03
Posts: 565
Loc: State of Moral Decay
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Of course both the House & Senate bills specifically EXEMPT congress and the King of Kenya from having to participate in this delightful travesty, nor can their "Cadillac" health plans be taxed like the rest of the citizens can be. It must be a lot of fun sticking it to the voters who elected them.
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#459272 - 11/09/09 12:52 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 997
Loc: FL
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Quote:
Eh. One of the reasons insurance companies can get away with the shit they do is that they have immunity from anti-trust laws, meaning that an insurance company can set it up so that it's the only game in town. Don't like my policies and rates, bitch? Well, go uninsured! How many of the insurance providers have taken advantage of this loophole to do exactly that? Anyone who answered "all of them!" gets a prize.
WHATEVER ELSE this bill does or doesn't do, whatever damage or good it might have in it, it DOES strip the insurance companies of their monopoly-protection, meaning that they will actually have to offer rates and services in competition with other insurance companies. You know, competition? For the best prices and products? Like, the good old capitalist way?
I'm not crying over THAT aspect of all this.
I'm not crying over any of it. Insurance companies are evil..pure and simple. I'm crossing all fingers and toes that a national healthcare system passes..ANYTHING is better then the current system.
Esp for someone like me who has a genetic, incurable, eventually fatal...pre existing condition. I pay @ $ 1000 a month for my insurance prem. + dr/prescription co-pays. More when I need lab tests or any kind of surgery or testing that requires hospitalization(which I need @ twice a year at least)
We are one of the only 1st world country that does NOT have a national healthcare system...and its working very well in places like Canada and Australia. Everyone I know there is very happy with their healthcare.
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#459273 - 11/09/09 01:56 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 576
Loc: Dolce Hottest Bukkake Babe
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Quote:
Esp for someone like me who has a genetic, incurable, eventually fatal...pre existing condition.
Aging? 
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#459276 - 11/09/09 06:36 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
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Someone show me precisely where in the Constitution the federal government is given the power to force citizens to buy a particular good or service?
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I would eat Allie Sin's asshole until I got an emotion out of her.-Jerkules
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#459278 - 11/09/09 09:04 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Same place where it allows the Federal government to require people to participate in Social Security and Medicare.
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#459279 - 11/10/09 04:31 AM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 04/26/09
Posts: 366
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Quote:
Someone show me precisely where in the Constitution the federal government is given the power to force citizens to buy a particular good or service?
All kinds of constitutional issues here, but it arises out of the "promote the general welfare" clause in the Preamble. The Supreme Court will eventually weigh in. However Leiberman is siding with the minority, and current consensus is that "health insurance reform" will not pass this year, if at all. WSJ has dedicated a whole section to this if you care to read more on it.
Edited by geek (11/10/09 04:33 AM)
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#459280 - 11/14/09 12:11 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 52
Loc: Mid America
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Quote:
Quote:
Someone show me precisely where in the Constitution the federal government is given the power to force citizens to buy a particular good or service?
All kinds of constitutional issues here, but it arises out of the "promote the general welfare" clause in the Preamble...
The Preamble doesn't actually have any binding power. It comes from Article 1, Section 8 "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
The short version is, the government can make a law for or against ANYTHING that it isn't prohibited from doing in the Constitution. Now, there's this whole matter of strict scrutiny and whatnot, but in most cases, unless there's a specific Bill of Rights issue at stake, laws passed only need pass a "rational basis" test, which means it only has to seem reasonable, on the surface, to the people reviewing it.
_________________________
Pornography is supposed to arouse sexual desires. If pornography is a crime, when will they arrest makers of perfume? ~Richard Fleischer
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#459282 - 11/15/09 01:08 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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freeinacage:
Quote:
Insurance companies are not evil, they are simply trying to maximize their profits just like any other business. The best way to maximize profits is to increase productivity and therefore private companies are more effective than government-run institutions that have little reason to function effectively.
I consider the major problem with insurance companies is that their market is set up so that the more sick people they can kick off their roles, the more money they make. As long as it's practical to have a government regulation specifying insurance companies must accept everyone, regardless of their health condition, that would go a long way towards tieing health insurance companies' interests to those of their customers. There's a Lewin Group paper I linked to in the "Obamacare jacking old people" thread that argues the Healthy Americans Act implements that regulation in an entirely practical way.
Here's a link to a video of how in the face of that regulation, health insurance companies in the Netherlands have to find ways to keep their policy holders healthy in order to make more money. Click on the "Streaming Video" link on this page. The story starts 45 seconds into the video, after Max Baucus finishes running his mouth: Click
cameronkeys:
Quote:
I'm not crying over any of it. Insurance companies are evil..pure and simple. I'm crossing all fingers and toes that a national healthcare system passes..ANYTHING is better then the current system.
Esp for someone like me who has a genetic, incurable, eventually fatal...pre existing condition. I pay @ $ 1000 a month for my insurance prem. + dr/prescription co-pays. More when I need lab tests or any kind of surgery or testing that requires hospitalization(which I need @ twice a year at least)
Not sure what makes you think health insurance premium is necessarily going to be less expensive under Obamacare. I didn't realize this in the last thread I made over Obamacare, but if you're making over $50K a year, most likey your premiums are going up. From another Lewin Group paper:
Source: Click
I've said this before. But, the more I learn about this ridiculous Obamacare bill, the worse it gets. Slashing Medicare and raising health insurance premiums on the middle class?? What the fuck is wrong with you people? Are you on some kind of political death wish?
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#459283 - 11/15/09 01:17 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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Just to show that covering the sick, and actually covering more of the uninsured overall, doesn't have to result in higher premiums for the middle class. Here's a chart from another Lewin Group paper on the Healthy Americans act. Note that the bar chart is inversed from the bar chart I posted above. The higher the bar, the more you save:
Ignore that some of the bars are light green on their tips, that's just an artifact of me converting the image so it will fit on the web efficiently.
Source: Click
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#459286 - 11/15/09 05:27 PM
Re: Health Care Bill Passed Perfidious Congress
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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I agree with Cameron that health insurance companies are evil, and we would be better off with health care delivery system based upon a different model, like Canada or Australia for example.
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