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#449539 - 09/14/09 06:58 PM
I-Mac with I-Movie
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Has anyone used this software yet? I need to upgrade my computer, and thinking of making the jump to Mac.
Is the I-Movie software worth a shit? I'm told it's modeled after (is the same) as Final Cut Pro. Overall, all the other frills about a Mac impresses me, considering most of my non-Word Processing work is photo/video related.
If not, for those who still prefer PC, what suggestions do you have for movie editing?
Thanks.
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Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449540 - 09/14/09 07:05 PM
Re: I-Mac with I-Movie
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@
Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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You'll somehow be attacked for banging Bree Olsen in this thread. In what style is she connected to the innertubes?.
You'd better know this and then be able to distance yourself.
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i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#449543 - 09/14/09 08:39 PM
Re: I-Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Advice on both PC -v- Mac is appreciated. I haven't decided on a final jump to Mac, because I've always been PC. I haven't used an Apple product since fucking grammar school, old school junk, ya know?
Sure, the Mac's look all pretty, but if I go PC, I really don't want to sink $2200+ into a new unit unless it includes software. I swung by Best Buy (I know, I know...) just to get a look at some pre-built junk, and they have some HP's going for $525 right now with a fair amount of stuff - trying to purge the Vista product while they stil can I suppose.
Of course, my laptop is PC (an HP), and I'd have to deal with compatibiliy issues for shit like my DeLorme mapping software - which is essential to my vehicular travel.
Keep it coming, thanks for the input. I like PC's, but I've never been one to keep up with that latest stuff...AND...I'm not a gamer. Any suggestions on video cards if I want to edit HD video from my XH-A1? And should I consider a new external HD to store all that shit on, seeing as video takes up alot of space?
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Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449544 - 09/14/09 09:04 PM
Re: I-Mac -v- PC
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Buying an iMac (starting at $1200 US$) isn't much more than a decently equipped PC, and assuming your comparing it against a similar vintage (current) PC setup, would require less memory and resources to do the same tasks. You also don't need the antivirus or spyware subscriptions. Don't forget to factor in the software pricing. Vegas Pro 9 is close to $600 US$, FCE is $199 US$.
Having used both, Vegas isn't even close to FCE. It is far better than it used to be, but they're no equals. The PC with Vegas has the advantage of getting you in the editing game for less money, but if you're talking about what I actually preferred working with more, my vote is FCE.
Don't use an external drive for additional editing storage -- USB2 or network storage are generally far slower than directly attached, internal, SATA or SAS storage. This will make a big difference for working with large files, so you may want to order that iMac with a large drive (or install one yourself afterwards).
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#449545 - 09/15/09 12:47 AM
Re: I-Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I love how Macs are really good at running games. Oops, they aren't. Macs suck.
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#449546 - 09/15/09 06:02 AM
Re: I-Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/11/06
Posts: 5287
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
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Quote:
I love how Macs are really good at running games. Oops, they aren't. Macs suck.
Mac's ARE PC's these days. If you want to play your little games, you can feel free to install BootCamp software and set up a separate partition with Windows Vista or whatever on it.
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"Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
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#449547 - 09/15/09 06:42 AM
Re: Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Games are for fucking kids, kids don't buy computers, they spend $300 for a new PS3.
I don't mind spending $2k on a computer, which is for a variety of business (union stuff, photo/video editing). I just want some newer equipment, because my shitty Dell isn't capable of handling all the HD hardware (without upgrading); and the memory is taking a dive more & more each year.
Thus far the assistance has been appreciated. The whole Mac -v- PC debate has been on for years, like Chevy -v- Ford. What I choose will have little to do with personal preference, as opposed to what I know (PC) and what gets the job done (sounds like Mac does better?). I'll just have to weigh those options as I read feedback from a variety of sources.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449548 - 09/15/09 07:25 AM
Re: Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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WOW, you can spend a shit-ton of money detailing some of the larger Mac Pro models...WTF?!
Anywho, I guess my next question is capacity (memory). What kind of space & capability will I really need to ensure smooth transfer of my files? My lil' old Dell here only has the following, and it's over 4 years old, I think:
Intel Pentium 4, 3.20Ghz
1GB of RAM
160GB hard drive
I can't even find anything more specific on this old bird, but that's probably because I don't necessarily know where to find it.
Obviously, anything I get will be an upgrade, and there is no such thing as "the biggest & best" in computers, because this shit is outdated tomorrow. I just want something in the middle-of-the-field that isn't going to cost me an arm & a leg. I mean, I shouldn't need a fucking Mac Pro model as opposed to just the "screen-and-tower-in-one" I-Mac, or should I? Just screwing with customs, for shits & giggles, I built one Mac Pro model over $12,500...insane. Does anyone honestly get what they pay for at this price? Fuck, that's almost comparible to my goddam Yaris!
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449549 - 09/15/09 08:30 AM
Re: Mac -v- PC
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church
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Quote:
WOW, you can spend a shit-ton of money detailing some of the larger Mac Pro models...WTF?!
Anywho, I guess my next question is capacity (memory). What kind of space & capability will I really need to ensure smooth transfer of my files? My lil' old Dell here only has the following, and it's over 4 years old, I think:
Intel Pentium 4, 3.20Ghz
1GB of RAM
160GB hard drive
I can't even find anything more specific on this old bird, but that's probably because I don't necessarily know where to find it.
Obviously, anything I get will be an upgrade, and there is no such thing as "the biggest & best" in computers, because this shit is outdated tomorrow. I just want something in the middle-of-the-field that isn't going to cost me an arm & a leg. I mean, I shouldn't need a fucking Mac Pro model as opposed to just the "screen-and-tower-in-one" I-Mac, or should I? Just screwing with customs, for shits & giggles, I built one Mac Pro model over $12,500...insane. Does anyone honestly get what they pay for at this price? Fuck, that's almost comparible to my goddam Yaris!
DELL has an online special on XPS with Intel Core i7 with 8MB of L2 cache, 6GB RAM and 750GB HD for under $900. Not too bad.
I have an XPS that I use for daily stuff but I also bought a MAC mini for $600 and it does everything I want to do as far as video goes. Good luck.
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"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS
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#449551 - 09/15/09 10:28 AM
Re: Mac -v- PC
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 4580
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The general idea I got from the Apple fanboy congregation is that their hardware is supposed to be better, all is supposed to work better because it's from one supplier and that the operating system is a lot more advanced and prettier to look at.
Well, what I think is the following: The hardware is, as another poster already mentioned, PC hardware with nearly no differences at all, except that it has a higher price and sometimes is older than on the less restricted PC hardware market. The less powerful iMacs cost more than substantially more powerful PC systems from Dell and so on and suck for gamers due to the graphics cards used or even permanently integrated there. The more powerful Macs, Mac Pros or however they call their high-end systems, are competitively priced when compared to workstation, thus very powerful, PC systems and suck for gaming because of the graphics cards used. To install Windows on any Mac isn't fun for any gamer and the choices for graphics cards from Apple is lousy in this segment. Other powerful graphics card solutions seem to have the frequency of acorns in the wild. When Eric doesn't game, it's fine. It will, however, not change the heavy price differences for the rest he will need to do video editing and so on. Fast video editing solutions will have need of fast storage access, maybe in RAID 0, a lot of RAM and a fast CPU. Optimized professional programs like Sony Vegas, which use more features and cores of modern CPUs, will do a better job than any family video trash program.
All-in-one solutions exist on the Windows side as well and are offered by Dell and such. To stay away from some styled up cripple system seems to be a good general idea; to pay for power, not for some marketing-generated bubble to be one of the few who know what computing is all about. It can save a lot of money.
No one without a business and who really has to pay for the original versions buys Windows software when there's the alternative to use cracked versions for about nothing. To scan them with a free antivirus software is basic procedure. Paid antivirus programs don't necessarily do a better job than the free ones. They all have their weak spots. And although Apple might have fewer problems with viruses, they exist on their platform also. It's a myth that any system without the least amount of care and configuration will be flawless. On any platform.
Anyone able will benefit from avoiding pre-installed, badly-configured operating systems and doing a fresh installation with everything needed. It will usually avoid a lot of problems. People can be paid to do that.
The look of the Mac OS X and Windows Vista or Windows 7 operating systems shouldn't be too important for those who want to get work done and not just look at their shiny new toy.
Every church milks its members, PC manufacturers and Apple included.
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#449552 - 09/15/09 11:15 AM
Re: Mac -v- PC
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 572
Loc: USA
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If it were my choice, I'd just choose a good, less expensive, PC with Windows 7, when it's available. Some places are already offering the W7 upgrade now. If there's no rush, I'd just wait until it was built into the PC, rather than upgrading from Vista later. Supposedly it'll be an improvement over Vista. When I was picking a laptop, I was advised to stay away from Dell, and to get more RAM because of the heaviness of Vista. I took that advice and never had a problem with it. But if it's a curiosity thing, then go with a MAC.
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#449553 - 09/15/09 04:23 PM
Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Looking at the HP packages to expand my search, if I stick with a PC...
What's better for photo / video work, or does it make a fuckin' difference?
SATA or RAID
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449555 - 09/15/09 05:44 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 4580
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Every platform has its own set of specialized programs. If you plan to give other people whatever you did to let them work on it further, it's important that the programs are either the same or compatible. It doesn't matter otherwise, except for the output format. SATA is the interface for common hard disks. RAID is a way to couple hard disks. If you check this out, you'll see that there are various modes to couple hard disks. RAID 0 is a popular mode for home users, not really that safe, but about twice as fast as a single hard disk. There are other modes which combine automatic backup and data throughput. These modes need more hard disks, but it could be worth it. Cutting important large video files might be a scenario for RAID 5, because it gives you speed and redundancy. Where outdated G4 hardware shall be faster than anything new, like a Core i7 platform, for example, is where fanboydom gets blinded by obscure brand technocracy. It's bullshit. When it gets into workstation territory and you have to interchange files with other people regularly in a format only Apple systems can use and money isn't a factor, buy an Apple system. Otherwise I'd get parts and either build my own rig or get someone to do it for me; the same for the software side. Get the programs, drivers and tools downloaded in the latest versions available and give the gear some work. Building your own system in hard- and software isn't easy the first time and requires some basic knowledge you can find online. It will save money you'd have to spend on a pre-configured workstation, also on the next and the one after that and so on.
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#449556 - 09/15/09 05:44 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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Quote:
Anywho, I guess my next question is capacity (memory). What kind of space & capability will I really need to ensure smooth transfer of my files?
Quote:
I mean, I shouldn't need a fucking Mac Pro model as opposed to just the "screen-and-tower-in-one" I-Mac, or should I?
The movie editing software sounds like the beefiest software you want to run. So, look at the system recommendations for the movie editing software you want to run to determine what the system specs should be. Also look at user reviews to see what they say about the software they say they need to run it.
The amount of disk space is just going to be a function of how much video you want to store. For archiving video, you can use an external hard drive. So, I'd think the only disk space you'd need on the computer was to handle the video you're actively working on.
Quote:
The whole Mac -v- PC debate has been on for years, like Chevy -v- Ford.
It sounds like your debate shouldn't be Mac vs. PC, but just Final Cut software vs. Vegas. I guess Vegas is the best PC movie editing software, that's what someone else in this thread was saying. Quickly browsing at the user reviews on Amazon, on first glance, it seemed like the Final Cut stuff was worth the extra cash to get a Mac to run it on. People in the Vegas reviews were saying stuff like, "If you don't mind learning by trial and error...".
Keep in mind that you are going to have to sit there and use this software all the time. Yeah, maybe the Mac to run Final Cut is, say, ~$1000 more up-front. But, consider for the next 2/3 years, every time you sit down to use the damn thing, that's what you got. If you can get the work done faster and with less irritation in Final Cut, how much has that extra $1000 up front saved you with an easier, more pleasant work-load in the long run? Not irritating you as much and freeing up time for other stuff.
But, read the Final Cut vs. Vegas reviews and make sure it really is so much better. I don't really know.
It's about the software, not the operating system or the hardware.
Quote:
SATA or RAID
SATA and RAID aren't opposing standards. You can have SATA disks in a RAID array. SATA refers to how the disk physically connects to the computer, e.g., what the ribbon that connects the disk looks like and that you'll need a SATA driver. RAID is how you configure these, probably SATA connected, disks in your system.
There are like 5 or 6 standards you can use to set up a RAID array. The first one, RAID 0, is just for speed. It utilizes 2 disks like it's one disk that's a lot faster than either disk would be independently. In this configuration, any disk you lose causes you to lose all your data on both disks. Other RAID configurations make use of redundancy, where if one disk fails all the data is on other disks in the configuration. So, you can just keep going until you replace the failed disk. And, once you replace the failed disk, all the data can be easily populated back on it because it's right there on the other disk. RAID 1 is where there're 2 disks, both of them having the same data on them.
Assuming Bishop is right about Final Cut being an industry standard, everything else he said I agree with.
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#449557 - 09/15/09 08:15 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 2376
Loc: Rockin' the Z5U
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Quote:
If you check this out, you'll see that there are various modes to couple hard disks. RAID 0 is a popular mode for home users, not really that safe, but about twice as fast as a single hard disk. There are other modes which combine automatic backup and data throughput. These modes need more hard disks, but it could be worth it. Cutting important large video files might be a scenario for RAID 5, because it gives you speed and redundancy.
Where outdated G4 hardware shall be faster than anything new, like a Core i7 platform, for example, is where fanboydom gets blinded by obscure brand technocracy. It's bullshit.
I have cut video in adobe premier, vegas and final cut. Eric is going to delve into an area of his field that has an established process and methods. If he has to pick up the phone and ask another editor for help with sound levels or transitions or after effects or what have you, he will be in a far better situation if he and the person on the other end of the call are both looking at the same screen.19 out of 20 of those screens would be Final Cut.
You speak to the speed available. Five years ago when I began cutting, it was with an old mirror-door dual 1ghz g-4 with a Matrox RT i/o box that allowed me to RENDER IN REAL-TIME that is as fast as is possible 
The fact that I favor Mac over pc, because I never have viruses, I find it to be much more stable, and though initially more of an out-lay,I am certain that it holds it's value better and I have spent far less time fixing Macs and more time actually getting some work done.
There are a lot of ways to cut video and everyone I know that didn't use final cut, eventually they tell me they are getting a mac 
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"I hope someone runs you over with their car."-guapo
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#449561 - 09/16/09 12:53 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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ADT regular
Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 5
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The beauty of Mac moving over to Intel processors is that you can now install OSX on PC hardware. While it is technically against the EULA of OSX, as long as you are buying the actual OS, fuck em.
I have installed OSX on a few PCs ranging from Socket 775 Core2Duo desktops, Centrino laptops, and even Dell Mini's. Once you find the right drivers and install scripts for the machine you are going with, you can have a faster processor, more memory, better video card, more harddrive space, etc. etc. and still spend less than buying overpriced Mac hardware.
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#449562 - 09/16/09 10:04 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Quote:
The beauty of Mac moving over to Intel processors is that you can now install OSX on PC hardware. While it is technically against the EULA of OSX, as long as you are buying the actual OS, fuck em.
I have installed OSX on a few PCs ranging from Socket 775 Core2Duo desktops, Centrino laptops, and even Dell Mini's. Once you find the right drivers and install scripts for the machine you are going with, you can have a faster processor, more memory, better video card, more harddrive space, etc. etc. and still spend less than buying overpriced Mac hardware.
That's an interesting & worthy concept, but I'm not so tach saavy to do so myself, nor do I have the artistic motivation to even try. I guess that's the reason I'm looking for something pre, or at least custom built (by someone else) that will suit my needs.
It's probably a fun project (esp. to some), but it's something I don't feel comfortable dicking with. Kind of trying to build/fix a $2000 toaster. 
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449564 - 09/16/09 09:14 PM
Processors
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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I prefer to use Intel, but I'm told that AMD makes some great hardware for video projects. Discuss, please.
If I stuck with PC & Intel, what's the minimum specs I want in a processor in order to safely & efficiently edit video? I've never really done anything professional grade, only the occasional amateur movie with substandard software.
Or, is AMD far superior to Intel for such editing capabilities?
Orrrr, is Mac still superior to PC in any regard, and I should just take the dive & say "fuck it, I'm getting a Mac".
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449565 - 09/16/09 09:26 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Quote:
Quote:
SATA or RAID
SATA and RAID aren't opposing standards. You can have SATA disks in a RAID array. SATA refers to how the disk physically connects to the computer, e.g., what the ribbon that connects the disk looks like and that you'll need a SATA driver. RAID is how you configure these, probably SATA connected, disks in your system.
There are like 5 or 6 standards you can use to set up a RAID array. The first one, RAID 0, is just for speed. It utilizes 2 disks like it's one disk that's a lot faster than either disk would be independently. In this configuration, any disk you lose causes you to lose all your data on both disks. Other RAID configurations make use of redundancy, where if one disk fails all the data is on other disks in the configuration. So, you can just keep going until you replace the failed disk. And, once you replace the failed disk, all the data can be easily populated back on it because it's right there on the other disk. RAID 1 is where there're 2 disks, both of them having the same data on them.
I thank you for the well-rounded answer, but I guess I'm just pretty dense when it comes to understanding that kind of technics involved in computers.
- 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive Included in price
- FREE UPGRADE! 1TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 750GB +$50.00
- 1.5TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive +$100.00
- 1TB RAID 0 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs) - performance +$130.00
- 500GB RAID 1 (2 x 500GB SATA HDDs) - data security +$150.00
- 2TB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s - two 1TB hard drives #180.00
- 320GB 10K rpm & 640GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s - two hard drives +$280.00
Given the options above, based on the "build a PC" link @ HP.com, which hard drive would benefit me the most in terms of the video/photo editing which will be dominant on my PC. Obviously, I don't want to lose my work if at all necessary, and I usually store my end result on an external hard drive right now. Are you saying there's an option amongst those above where if one drive crashes, that I have an internal drive on-board with the ability to backup my data (pre-crash, of course)?
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449566 - 09/16/09 10:47 PM
Re: Processors
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ADT regular
Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 5
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For video editing Intel is still superior to AMD.
Also you want to go for a quad core CPU over a dual core since having those two extra processing threads will have a massive effect on video editing. This is why I recommend against Apple because unless you get their $3000+ G5+ towers, you are only getting a dual core.
As far as socket type, it all depends on how future proof you want it.
Socket 775 is still a solid socket, but the road map for the processors is done. The Q9550 is the best quad core CPU out there for the 775.
The two newest socket types are the 1366 and 1156. The 1366 is the i7 Intel line, and the 1156 is the i5 Intel line. The difference between the two is that the 1366 uses tri-channel DDR-3, while the 1156 uses dual-channel DDR-3. Basically this means that there is theoretically less bandwidth in a dual-channel versus tri-channel, but in real world performance you won't see it. Also if you go tri-channel you have to do at least 3 matching sticks of memory, so the lowest you would want to go would be a 3x2 (3 sticks of 2 gig memory) for a total of 6 gigs. With dual-channel you would go for a 2x4 kit (2 sticks of 4 gig memory) for a total of 8 gigs.
Also if you know anyone that builds, do that over a Dell/HP/etc.. etc. Their storage upgrade options are shit.
Just throwing out random numbers I could build an amazing Intel i5 for around $600 without storage. From there I could get a Velociraptor SATA harddrive to use as the main OS drive, or a reasonably priced SSD for the OS drive, and then go with 1.5 Terabyte Samsung Eco-Green harddrives for $90 a pop.
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#449567 - 09/17/09 03:16 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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Quote:
I thank you for the well-rounded answer, but I guess I'm just pretty dense when it comes to understanding that kind of technics involved in computers.
It's like this. "SATA" is a standard specifying how you connect the disk to the computer. Configuring the operating system so that the disk is in a "RAID array" is something you can do with the disk, after it's connected to the computer.
You have to have at least 2 disks to make a RAID array.
There are various different types of RAID arrays. Of the kinds of RAID arrays you can make, RAID 0 makes accessing the disks really fast. But, if you lose one disk, you lose all the data on both disks. RAID 1 is no faster than a single disk, but each disk contains all the data the other one has. So, if you lose one disk, the other disk is right there and it's still got all your data. You've lost nothing.
RAID 1 is just like a real time backup. You don't have to burn CD's or keep switching tapes to make a backup. It's just right there in your computer being backed up every time you change anything.
But, whatever backup strategy you need is pretty user proclivity dependent. RAID 1 is just one choice among many you have for making backups. Another choice, that's more common than RAID 1, is an external hard drive that plugs into your computer via USB...
With an external hard disk, the backup won't happen in real time. You'll have to set it up so that in the middle of the night your backup software takes a snapshot and backs up whatever you tell it to.
But really, it's becoming apparent your not comfortable making these decisions yourself. While Bishop may not do everything like you would if you were as informed as he, just find someone else who's been doing it and doing it the way he does is not a bad way to start to learn at all.
But, like if he tells you to get an external hard disk and not worry about the extra expense of RAID 1. You can check prices on RAID 1 and an external hard drive. If a RAID 1 array is no more expensive than an external disk, you can come back and ask about that.
It is interesting that a 2nd disk for a RAID 1 array in those options is only an extra $150. However, that RAID 1 array only gives you 500 GB of space. I don't know if that's enough or not to store plenty of video when you're editing HD video like you said before.
I've never done any video editing work so am not really comfortable telling you what you need.
I use an external hard disk to backup my computers, but that's mainly because I have more than one that needs backing up. So, rather than have RAID 1 arrays on all of them, I just back up my computers to that one external hard disk. Plus I feel a little more safe having my backup on a separate device than the computer itself. If the computer gets zapped, the external hard disk is in the other room. But, if the house burns down? I don't want to have to pay for internet storage of my backups, so I just keep them in the same house.
Quote:
That's an interesting & worthy concept, but I'm not so tach saavy to do so myself, nor do I have the artistic motivation to even try. I guess that's the reason I'm looking for something pre, or at least custom built (by someone else) that will suit my needs.
That's smart. You get into those hacky projects and if anything goes wrong, the project takes so much longer than anyone would have ever told you.
Quote:
I prefer to use Intel, but I'm told that AMD makes some great hardware for video projects. Discuss, please.
Do not worry about Intel vs. AMD. That is a detail only geeks like me have an opinion on. You're more interested in who puts the processor in the box. HP vs. Dell is a much more important argument than Intel vs. AMD.
And really, the only main, initial thing you should really care about is what movie editing software you want to use. While there are differences between Mac OS and Windows, the operating system isn't where you're going to spend 90% of your time. It's in the movie editing software.
Then after you know about the differences in the movie software, you can get an idea of how much the hardware to run that software is going to cost. So, if you choose Final Cut, and the hardware is enough to make you wince, now that you're fully informed about the differences in the movie editing software, you can go back and look at how much it would cost to get hardware to run Vegas. But, only after you know what you're giving up as far as the movie software is concerned.
I would not under-estimate the importance of software that's better designed. Because, making something easier to use isn't just a pretty-boy thing that you can click on and brag about. When you make something easier to use, people actually use it.
As a general, obvious example, VCR's could do everything Tivo's can do. But, no one ever used VCR's to record all their shows. With Tivo's, you don't have to keep switching tapes and that made it easy enough to do it that people actually do do it. If Final Cut makes it easier to apply movie effects (or whatever movie software does), then you are much more like to actually use them. And hopefully you use them well, making your movies better.
And, I would not underestimate the need for support. While you're learning this new software, where are you going to get help? If it's Final Cut, apparently there are a lot more places to get help than if it's Vegas. Just like it's a bitch figuring out what to buy, it's going to be a bitch figuring out how to use it. This is what Bishop is talking about.
I'm typing so damn much because it's not clear what you need to know. I really think you need to start with reading about the movie editing software. Those reviews will discuss not only usability, but what hardware you need to run the software. Then you can start pricing hardware, getting an idea of what it's going to cost, maybe revisiting your decision as to what movie software you're going to get as you narrow things down.
But, the answers to all the other questions is going to come out of what movie editing software you want to use. That's where you start.
Back to the Intel vs. AMD thing. What gbv wrote about Quad-Core vs. Dual Core is interesting. But, read the movie editing software reviews to get an idea of how much you need that. I don't know myself.
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#449570 - 09/17/09 04:55 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
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RAID has nothing to do with "backup". They are orthogonal concepts.
RAID, except RAID 0, is about *availability* not backup. It makes sure that the the system can be used, and that you can access the data, whether the data is good or bad.
If the editor scrambles your video, RAID ensures you can get to the scrambled video all the time. Backup lets you access an older version of the video before it was scrambled, but it might take an hour or two.
Quit worrying about the brand of CPU and whatnot. That's putting the cart before the horse. Your decision is apparently between Final Cut and Vegas. If one choice requires more expensive hardware then it's a negative factor for that choice, but you are still choosing between Final Cut vs. Vegas and not the hardware.
An iMac is built with notebook components internally. This limits performance and makes them a bit more expensive than a similar PC. The Mac Pro uses desktop / workstation components.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock
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#449571 - 09/17/09 05:47 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 2376
Loc: Rockin' the Z5U
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... May be this will help. When I first decided I wanted to direct, people told me that editing would make me a better shooter.(you care more about how you shoot if you have to fix crap that didn't have to be there) I am a geek at heart and play with hardware for fun. I built a very fast duo core windows box from the ground up,board, processor, ram and several drives in a raid for the storage of large video files and jacked the current version of Premier off of Limewire.There was plenty of info out there for a beginner and I waded in. First thing I noticed was whenever I had a question, whoever I called was using Final Cut. The terminology was the same so after translating their help to how it applied to Premier for better or worse I was on my way. At this point I discover that rendering video is an intensive use of ram and processors, add to that the fact that windows uses a lot of ram and processor, I had to over-clock my box to be efficient. The result of that was very high temps. and an unstable os. I burned out expensive processors and spent as much time trying to find a balance and repairing things and asking for help as I did editing video. A friend stepped in and introduced me to Vegas on his beefy hardware and things began to come together. I shot and cut some scenes for a company which then asked me to make some changes to fit their needs. The adjustments were some of the after effects available in... You guessed it... FINAL CUT... I gave in. Or up however you want to look at it. I went out and bought my first Mac,(an old dual 450) and learned that Macs smaller os used less ram and processor and allowed for a much smoother work-flow and now whenever an issue arose everyone knew what I was talking about and I was prepared to do what was asked of me. That Mac was stable and ran cool but was slow. Render times is a big deal. Sitting around and waiting to see how changes you make have turned out is reason enough to want to minimize that hassle in the beginning. The purchase of that Mac also negated every dime I had spent hardware-wise up to that point  Next came "Lizzie" my dual 1ghz mirror-door. I out fitted with a Matrox i/o box and a Final Cut controller and a deck(dont want to be using your camera as a deck)The dual 1ghzs and 2gigs of ram had me rendering in REAL TIME which is as fast as is possible regardless of how much money you spend, how many cores you have or anything else. Real time means it happens when you do it.. There are other ways to cut video as well such as non-linear. Which is even easier but doesn't provide all of the bells and whistles you get with digital. I would have saved my self a lot of time and money if i had just started out doing what everyone else in my profession was doing in the beginning... I also suggest checking out the Pro-video boards.There is a lot of good intel in them.
_________________________
"I hope someone runs you over with their car."-guapo
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#449572 - 09/17/09 06:30 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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Quote:
RAID has nothing to do with "backup". They are orthogonal concepts.
This is true. RAID 1 (and other RAID array types) only has the one most very basic feature of a backup. And, that's if a hard drive fails, your data is easily recovered.
For home users, this is the only feature I've seen them use.
But, nobody I know does video editing...
Quote:
If the editor scrambles your video, RAID ensures you can get to the scrambled video all the time. Backup lets you access an older version of the video before it was scrambled, but it might take an hour or two.
This is an excellent point I've never considered before... The same could be true of a user who just severely messes up his own work in a word processor or what not. Or, if your backing up your entire OS, if the OS gets messed up.
Quote:
An iMac is built with notebook components internally. This limits performance and makes them a bit more expensive than a similar PC. The Mac Pro uses desktop / workstation components.
Confusing the hell out of Eric again, talking about lower level stuff. But, one concern I'd have with an iMac is can you upgrade it's DVD drive to a Blu-Ray one? Last I checked, they weren't including Blu Ray drives. I know there are external drives, but I hate having a bunch of separate devices on my desk. Although, that's probably a better alternative than using inferior software.
Blu Ray just sounds like it'd be even more important in video editing use case than in most of the other scenarios.
Quote:
You already have windows and hacked versions of Premier are readily available. If you intend to make cutting video part of your profession.
I'm pretty sure he said he wants to start doing HD video and his current set-up isn't powerful enough for that. Thus, he's looking at upgrading...
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#449573 - 09/17/09 11:07 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 572
Loc: USA
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When I first opened this thread I didn't realize we were talking about professional editing. I've only done amateur editing using freeware such as VitualDub, AVI ReComp, Format Factory, etc...
A lot of Intelligent replies in this thread. I've especially enjoyed reading Bishop's answers, since he's giving us an Industry insider perspective. Which I know nothing about. He made a strong point about the Industry Standard of Final Cut Pro. It would make it easier to get tech advice over the phone, if you're using the same software.
Yesterday I downloaded Vegas Pro 9 just out of curiosity, after reading this thread. I'm not use to it, and it may take me a few tutorials to know how to use some of the editing functions.
My question to Eric: Are you gonna be doing much more than cutting parts out of video, or editing photos?
My question to Bishop, or any other insider: If Eric Answers yes, and all we're talking about is cutting video. Is it really that complicated? I saw a bunch of Tutorials on youtube showing how to cut pieces out of video,(using Vegas) along with other editing tutorials. It would seem to me that Using Vegas to cut video wouldn't be that difficult. I would think it was more about having a good sense of knowing what to cut, rather than how. But again, I'm not a pro, or an Industry Insider. It's possible there are things I could be overlooking, given my inexperience with pro editing. Is it more complicated than that, Bishop?
I admit that I'm curious to know for myself. But I don't think it's a hijack of this thread, since Your reply could help Eric Determine how necessary it would be to put out extra money for a Mac, for his purposes.
This has been an educational thread, I'm enjoying it.
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#449574 - 09/17/09 11:10 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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Quote:
Quote:
You already have windows and hacked versions of Premier are readily available. If you intend to make cutting video part of your profession.
I'm pretty sure he said he wants to start doing HD video and his current set-up isn't powerful enough for that. Thus, he's looking at upgrading...
Yeah, this old bear just won't handle video editing, I'm certain of it. The upgrade serves that personal purpose of wanting to upgrade for my own personal sake, but also using the machine for a business purpose in editing video. I just want to make sure whatever I purchase/custom build will be plenty enough to make the gears keep up with the hands on the clock.
My PC's memory is depleted after almost 5 years of constant use, although the only hefty programs I have are photo editing software currently, most of which I don't use other than to resize & crop, occasionally brighten. I don't do any of that fake photography shit where people monotone 90% of the photo, but leave their main focus in color.
I love photo & video, this is just taking those passions a step further, learning to efficiently edit those mediums on my own, and yes...upgrading to sufficient hardware to make it happen.
Quote:
My question to Eric: Are you gonna be doing much more than cutting parts out of video, or editing photos?
Based on the assignments that have been asked of me, I would like to learn as many aspects of editing as I can over time - cutting, blending, transitioning - and even the applicable audio skills that come with these.
I explained to the parties who have expressed interest in me that what they want will require significant upgrades to my equipment,...but I'm up to the task. Obviously, I won't seriously consider the upgrade until A) I can afford it, and B) I have at least one gig lined up contractually.
They're willing to work with me, and hopefully I can turn what is just a hobby (amateur video) for now into a learning experience & some extra spending money - most of which I reinvest into my photo/video habit anyway.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449576 - 09/17/09 01:37 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 2376
Loc: Rockin' the Z5U
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Quote:
It would seem to me that Using Vegas to cut video wouldn't be that difficult. I would think it was more about having a good sense of knowing what to cut, rather than how. But again, I'm not a pro, or an Industry Insider. It's possible there are things I could be overlooking, given my inexperience with pro editing. Is it more complicated than that, Bishop?
How difficult an editing job will be is directly proportionate to your level of experience, the quality of the footage, having the right tools for the job and the style of editing that the job calls for. Some jobs will expect only removal of the part where the chick vomits during the blow job slapping the cut with a simple wipe transition. Another employer would want it cleaner. You would be required to remove the vomiting and then match the footage before vomit, to a point after vomit, which matches as seamlessly as possible with a very small transition and with an audio loop to cover the missing audio. Still another employer would want you to get file footage from his archives and match up some footage of his wife drinking from the toilet that you would have to brighten and tone down the audio in order to cover the vomit footage. Depending on the skill of the shooter.. Does he give direction on camera(because he isn't the one who has to clean the audio every time he opens his big mouth  )Is he unstable with the camera and the boss is going to want you to cut everywhere his hand shakes? Do you have 15 mins. where you didn't see the big glob of spit on your lens? Still others want to create "art" in post. Grand sweeping transitions and all type of video effects(some of which I firmly believe can induce seizures in epileptics).I have seen porn with enough zooming in and out ,wild camera angles and special effects that it not only did not turn me on in anyway, the zooming can actually make me nauseated 
The biggest pain in the ass for me is the audio. I understand why some companies choose to just slap music and a loop of "oooh oooh ooohh yeeeeeaaaah" over and over because it's just easier that way
Once you learn how it works it is easy but can be time consuming. Once you know how it works and you have good footage it is a breeze.
I think the best editors in porn don't distract you from your stroke with unmatched shots, gaudy transitions and special effects, but to each their own...
_________________________
"I hope someone runs you over with their car."-guapo
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#449577 - 09/17/09 02:08 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 4580
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@duckduckgoose Quote:
One other nice part about using the Macs -- you can always run Windows XP or Vista in a simulated window (virtual machine), or install it outright using BootCamp. If you decided you wanted to learn Vegas AND FCE, or if someone sent you a file you couldn't use somehow on FCE (unlikely), then you could do so without any problems on the same machine.
That's fine and all. It also works the other way around, just requires some special hardware, knowledge and patience. I saw it on a slightly geeky tech show called Tekzilla. The moderators are Fat Joe and Nerd Jane, their guest on the matter is an androgynous beast who knows its shit. Check out the following video stream and look for their take on the issue at 09:30: http://revision3.com/tekzilla/satadock
There's no real reason not to do this if you or someone you know can do it. Skip the overpriced hardware, faggy case and lousy peripherals and get your Mac on, if you have to. It's faster, cheaper and overall better than the religion in white has to offer. You probably won't have to take shit like locked, deleted or censored threads on the official Apple forums whenever they put out some buggy new device and want to keep their faith clean.
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#449578 - 09/17/09 04:36 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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It's a nice thought, but the hackintoshes just aren't ready for primetime, and never will be. They typically only work well on specific combinations of PC hardware, and often break when new point releases of Mac OS X come out and fix bugs or change the way the OS works (intentionally or not). They also aren't the equivalent of what I described -- a Mac with a copy of Windows running in a virtual machine (or running natively using BootCamp) is a supported configuration from Microsoft, and from Apple. A homebuilt PC somehow running OS X is not.
In the video you post, for example, they save money on parts by building it themselves, but then fudge the details a bit. It costs $240 ($250 including cheapest shipping) to buy one of those EFi-X units from the lone North American reseller, not the $200 they quote.
That same EFI-X unit also only works with Gigabyte motherboards (and two DFI ones), which are among the least reliable pieces of garbage made, just ahead of Shuttle brand. They use an Intel board in the second build, but it isn't on the list of 'supported' boards.
They also spec their "Mac Pro killer" machine using Intel i7 quad-core chips, rather than Intel Xeon quad-core chips. I suppose they have to, since Gigabyte probably doesn't make any enterprise-grade motherboards capable of using Xeon processors. Both chips use socket LGA1366, but typically the boards have to have firmware capable of recognizing and fully utilizing CPU features, and I doubt the Gigabyte ones do.
Those Gigabyte motherboards are also incapable of acknowledging up to 32GB of RAM like the Mac Pro can.
I guess I also don't need to outline the difference between owning one of Apple's workstations, and ordering disparate parts from multiple mail-order suppliers for the computer upon which your livelihood is based. That's a chunk of what is missing from the price differential here -- support. Here's the process me and everyone else I know goes through when a PC component fails : mail it in somewhere, pay for shipping yourself, and hope a replacement arrives before you're evicted for being unable to work online in the meantime. Actually, i'm lying. We then go buy an entire replacement part, eat the cost ourselves, and then try to pawn off the replacement part which arrives six weeks later on craigslist or on someone just to recoup something for it. That kind of pales in comparison with booking an appointment at the Apple store (or showing up and hoping they take mercy on you between other appointments), or having a Fedex box overnighted to you with a replacement unit in it from Apple.
Are there PC's with similar support offerings? Sure (Dell comes to mind), but they typically don't boot the hackintoshes.
Now, I have seen a tweaked VMWare virtual machine with a copy of Mac OS X inside it that runs perfectly on any PC with a 64-bit CPU and a copy of VMWare installed, but that isn't what we're talking about here 
I'm not sure Lian Li or Antec (large, quality PC case and hardware manufacturers) produce equipment that is any less "faggy" than the Apple stuff; maybe some year the industry people who see every product on the market and give out industrial design awards, will give their awards to those companies, like they do to Apple.
I, too, have heard of some threads being locked on Apple's forums; I guess if all the other PC companies had public support forums, we could see how they would lock them, but unfortunately, they don't tend to, so we only get to see what Apple has done.
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#449579 - 09/17/09 04:57 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/13/03
Posts: 2376
Loc: Rockin' the Z5U
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Hey ,I love Antec cases and I am straight Dell is currently going through somekind of restructuring right now. They also have forums(with a lot of unhappy campers on them) I also have a friend battling them tooth and nail over a piece of shit that they shipped and won't take back or support. I believe in this climate all of them are far more concerned about getting your money than keeping your business. All this talk about hardware is making me miss Fry's I used to get wood while I was parking in their lot. They have great customer support. If you pay attention they have incredible sale prices and a liberal(by today's standard)return policy
_________________________
"I hope someone runs you over with their car."-guapo
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#449581 - 09/17/09 06:55 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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#449583 - 09/19/09 08:01 PM
Re: Hard Drives?
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 572
Loc: USA
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BishopQuote:
Quote:
It would seem to me that Using Vegas to cut video wouldn't be that difficult. I would think it was more about having a good sense of knowing what to cut, rather than how. But again, I'm not a pro, or an Industry Insider. It's possible there are things I could be overlooking, given my inexperience with pro editing. Is it more complicated than that, Bishop?
How difficult an editing job will be is directly proportionate to your level of experience, the quality of the footage, having the right tools for the job and the style of editing that the job calls for. Some jobs will expect only removal of the part where the chick vomits during the blow job slapping the cut with a simple wipe transition. Another employer would want it cleaner. You would be required to remove the vomiting and then match the footage before vomit, to a point after vomit, which matches as seamlessly as possible with a very small transition and with an audio loop to cover the missing audio. Still another employer would want you to get file footage from his archives and match up some footage of his wife drinking from the toilet that you would have to brighten and tone down the audio in order to cover the vomit footage. Depending on the skill of the shooter.. Does he give direction on camera(because he isn't the one who has to clean the audio every time he opens his big mouth )Is he unstable with the camera and the boss is going to want you to cut everywhere his hand shakes? Do you have 15 mins. where you didn't see the big glob of spit on your lens? Still others want to create "art" in post. Grand sweeping transitions and all type of video effects(some of which I firmly believe can induce seizures in epileptics).I have seen porn with enough zooming in and out ,wild camera angles and special effects that it not only did not turn me on in anyway, the zooming can actually make me nauseated
The biggest pain in the ass for me is the audio. I understand why some companies choose to just slap music and a loop of "oooh oooh ooohh yeeeeeaaaah" over and over because it's just easier that way
Once you learn how it works it is easy but can be time consuming. Once you know how it works and you have good footage it is a breeze.
I think the best editors in porn don't distract you from your stroke with unmatched shots, gaudy transitions and special effects, but to each their own...
That's informative, and interesting.
Thanks.
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#449584 - 09/20/09 08:28 AM
Re: Hard Drives?
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
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Bishop:Quote:
I shot and cut some scenes for a company which then asked me to make some changes to fit their needs. The adjustments were some of the after effects available in... You guessed it... FINAL CUT...
So, is it that Final Cut is better designed, easier to learn, and even after you've learned it, still easier to use? Or, is it just that Final Cut is an industry standard?
duckduckgoose:
Quote:
The G3 machines came out around MacOS v8.5.1; the OS (and the apps) have matured a long way since then.
Not only have they matured, but they've been completely re-written. Mac OS 8.5.1 has nothing to do with where Apple is today. In the 90's, when Apple bought NeXT computer, they trashed the old Mac OS. Stopped developing it. Mac OS X is actually the operating system NeXT wrote. When MacOS X was released, Apple had written an emulator that ran on top of Mac OS X to run "classic" Mac apps.
It's not like Windows where you can take an application that was compiled under Windows 95 and run it natively under Windows Vista. Mac OS X was a complete break in backwards compatibility. They completely got rid of all the old garbage that held the software down for legacy purposes and started with an operating system that had been written from its inception with more modern technologies in mind.
To look at Apple with an eye towards what Mac OS 8.5.1 was, the closest analogy, you may as well look at Microsoft was with MS DOS. MS DOS and the original Mac OS started development within a few years of each other.
Bishop:
Quote:
Has any one else ever had to be on the phone with microsoft over in India for an hour, just to get them to give you the install codes for software that you have paid them for?
Microsoft's progress hasn't been a complete tossing aside of legacy issues like Apple's has. Microsoft controls way too much of the market to pull something like that off. But, they've gotten a hell of a lot better too. Vista got a way worse name in the media than it deserved. I still hate Microsoft, but since Windows XP, Microsoft has had a desktop that's plenty stable to run on the desktop.
Apple is supposed to have some 800 number people rave about. And, guys I know who work with Microsoft products professionally, they have "strategies" to navigate through Microsoft support. It's like you don't even plan on getting anything done with the first call, even though you have to sit on hold for like an hour to talk to someone. You have to figure out the things to say to level one support to get to a higher level. I'm pretty sure they were saying you really gotta get to level three support for anything to get done.
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#449585 - 09/21/09 12:06 PM
Re: Video cards
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
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NVIDIA GeForce
...or...
ATI Radeon?
I was also surprised to see that a full version of Final Cut Studio (one of 3? versions) was $1000. Is that normal? I didn't know it was so pricey, in comparison to whatever version it was that I saw in Office Max the other day (Final Cut Express maybe?).
Would FCE be THAT much of a kick in the teeth compared to the Studio version? I can't stomach paying $600 for fuckin' Adobe software much less $1000 for a video-editing program that probably has more shit than I'll ever need on it.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron
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#449587 - 09/21/09 01:57 PM
Re: Video cards
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I don't know how much video editing uses a GPU. But I will say I like nvidia stuff.
However I did have an sli system with an XFX and a BFG card and the BGF card actually caught on fire. To their defense BFG offers a lifetime warranty, so does XFX but the card was dated and not worth replacing.
_________________________
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#449588 - 09/21/09 05:12 PM
Re: Video cards
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
NVIDIA GeForce
...or...
ATI Radeon?
Depends. Some people have a personal preference. In addition, often a given ATI model of PCI Express card will whip an onboard, integrated NVidia chipset, and vice versa for Nvidia's full cards.
Quote:
I was also surprised to see that a full version of Final Cut Studio (one of 3? versions) was $1000. Is that normal? I didn't know it was so pricey, in comparison to whatever version it was that I saw in Office Max the other day (Final Cut Express maybe?).
Wikipedia does a half-decent job explaining the differences between FCE and FCP.
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