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#4357 - 07/16/03 12:28 PM
Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hello Everybody,
My Name is Stacy and I'm the customer Service Manager for DVD Exotic.com. I along with Damon ( Operations Manager ) have been operating DVD Exotic for the last Six Months. Our website was recently hacked (and almost destroyed). Our site was down for about two weeks. While we've made great strives in the last few months, this was a challegne that was beyond difficult. However, we're past that now and are quickly getting back on track.
Now During this time, two indiviuals posted comments regarding our site on ADT. Given that ADT is a forum, we felt that we had the right to respond to these posts. But alas, we had found that these posts were not only locked, but attatched with posts from Steph and Drew, casting a negitive light on our site. Nobody had an opportunity to respond.
The funny thing is that we've already recieved several postive posts on their forum. These were never locked - just ignored by Drew, Steph and their moderators - and we should also add the fact that we are not ADT Advertisers.
We feel beyond a doubt that Steph intentionally locked these recent posts to make us look bad. There is no question that Steph harbors some sort of disliking for us. Reasons why, we have no idea. In fact, we at one time attempted to advertise with them. We have a history of e-mails regarding that subject that are very interesting. These e-mails really put things in perspective.
All that aside, upon realizing that no one could respond to these post and participate in a forum disscuion regarding our site, we sent Step and Drew a personal e-mail ( not a post ) asking to remove any and all comments regarding our site - good or bad. This is solely due to the fact that they will not allow a public discussion. We feel that if varying opinions cannot be expressed in a forum, than we want no part of it.
Here is the letter as posted on ADT and the comments that followed.
http://www.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=23748/forum_id=4/cat_id=2/23748.htm
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/16/03 12:53 PM)
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#4358 - 07/16/03 12:35 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Here's the e-mail we sent to Steph. She posted it on ADT along with her own comments. I should also not that we've been blocked from ADT.
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Posted - Jul 15 2003 : 07:25:10 PM
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Due to this email that I received from DVD Exotic I have removed the posts about customers having problems with their store. While this person claims that I ignored their emails that is not true. It is true that we did not want to represent DVD Exotic on our site after it was sold to Vidshop.
As this email threatens "further action" if DVD Exotic is mentioned on our site we ask that you do not post about this store.
From nevco@pelicaninternet.com:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I have a problem with the topics posted on you site about mine. I would like them removed at once. If you have the power to lock a topic after placing your own responses, then you must have the power to simply delete them. I would also appreciate it if any further discussion of my site is found on yours ( whether good or bad ) to be removed as well. If you cannot do this I will be forced to explore further action. Comments that you have made were of a very negative nature and you've allowed no varying opinion to be expressed. While we understand that this is your forum and you can do what you will, we have already in the past attempted to to work with you. Of your own choosing you've felt that it has been best to continue to ignore us and/or refuse to ackwoledge our previous e-mails with any sincerity. The only comments we see from you or Drew are expressly negative. So Please just remove any post regarding our site and keep anything else about us off your boards.
Thank You,
Stacy Rook
Customer Service
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Yes, the letter was strong of nature, but we felt that we had no choice given her actions. We simply feel that it is not right to prevent any discussion or opinion in a forum.
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/16/03 12:55 PM)
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#4359 - 07/16/03 12:43 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Here's an ADT poster expressing his/her opinion on the matter
............................................................
Steph -
I can understand removing posts to avoid hassles, but as a counter consideration, I would hate to see anyone who gets an unflatting post about them have the power to silence the entire community.
If all it takes is an e-mail threatening "further action" to quash all complaints and critical commentary the discussion board (and even reviews) on ADT might take on an un-naturally positive tone all the time.
-- Snowman
(I don't recall or didn't read the actual thread(s) in question, so my comments are general in nature)
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Snowman makes a great point, but I think - like all others that will read the manipulated ADT post - that he's missing the point. We're in NO WAY attempting to silence the community. In fact, we encourage community dicusssion. What people don't realize is that Steph is preventing involvement by locking posts and banning opinion.
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/18/03 05:22 AM)
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#4360 - 07/16/03 03:01 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Steph Posted The Following on ADT....... Posted - Jul 16 2003 : 11:01:59 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Frankly I think this email says all that needs to be said about this store. No, a threatening email is not all it takes to quash criticism of a store. At the same time I'm not going to deal with incessant emails from them so that people can post their customer service problems here. All the posts about this store have been personal customer service issues. If their email system doesn't work, our message board is not a backup system for their customer service. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rating just a select few stores seems rather pointless to me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We represent 20+ stores on our site. We have allowed discussion and praise of stores who have ripped us off without saying anything. I don't think not discussing one small store really affects the usefulness of the forum. ------------------------------------------------------------ Steph says some very intersting things here. The first is this: "All the posts about this store have been personal customer service issues." Hardly the case. There have been several posts regarding our low prices and services. To claim otherwise is foolish....unless you've deleted any posts that proove otherwise. However, I do have two old links that tell a different tale. http://www.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=22377/forum_id=4/cat_id=2/22377.htmhttp://www.adultdvdtalk.com/forum/topic.dlt/topic_id=21062/forum_id=4/cat_id=2/21062.htmSteph also says this: "At the same time I'm not going to deal with incessant emails from them so that people can post their customer service problems here." Incessant? Not at all. We sent her two yesterday. The one that was posted originally as well as this one that Damon sent following her public posting of our e-mail: Steph, Our issue is your locking of posts. You've done this with the absolute intention of making us look bad by allowing a negative post, followed by your own comment or a comment made by Drew and then a locking of the post. This has happened twice. You posted our original letter in an attempt to further damage us. Please remove the letter from your board right away. Thank You, Damon ------------------------------------------------------------ I'm debating as to whether or not I should post the orginal e-mails from so many moths ago. We shall see. Also, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not trying to drag anyone or any site through the mud. I didn't want this to be of public record. But given the circumstances, I truly believe I have no option at this point.
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#4361 - 07/16/03 06:43 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 06/14/03
Posts: 449
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Hey Stacy, do ya look good? 
Coming back to the topic, ADT is a well known arse licker forum of a few pornstars. Likewise, Adult Dvd Empire is Jenna Jameson's no. 1 arse licker forum all because the queen(Read Jenna. I think i'm gonna throw up  ) relents to post a few lines every now and then. Any Anti-Jenna post is clamped down on immediately.
Talk about Marc Wallice and his HIV infection and that thread is deleted. That bastard soread HIV around knowingly and SHOULD be exposed. Why should the topic be swept under the carpet?
I love this forum because they allow people to talk their mind instead of mere ass-licking posts.Then again, this forum also has a few guys with an outstanding sense of humour. It sure is fucking fun here 
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#4362 - 07/16/03 08:14 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 161
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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Hi Stacy, Steph has done this in the past. That is cut off threads that describe problems with distributors. Something about keeping such complaints to email between customer and company and off the Messageboard. Especially with companies that don't advertise. This is my first time going to your website. DVDExotics I see what you mean by having problems. A lot of your links don't work. You have some good prices. Especially for Simplex and RDL videos. However, I'm not buying anything from your company until I figure out why your customers were complaining. Also, why don't you have an icon showing what is in stock or now. Are we supposed to order and be surprised whether it takes a week or 2 months. Oh, finally. I also want to know if you look good.
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#4364 - 07/17/03 11:22 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Hi Stacy,
Steph has done this in the past. That is cut off threads that describe problems with distributors. Something about keeping such complaints to email between customer and company and off the Messageboard. Especially with companies that don't advertise.
This is my first time going to your website. DVDExotics I see what you mean by having problems. A lot of your links don't work.
You have some good prices. Especially for Simplex and RDL videos. However, I'm not buying anything from your company until I figure out why your customers were complaining.
Also, why don't you have an icon showing what is in stock or now. Are we supposed to order and be surprised whether it takes a week or 2 months.
Oh, finally. I also want to know if you look good.
Hi,
Yes, a lot of our links aren't working at the moment. We're getting those resolved as we speak. Most importantly, our search feature should be back up and running right away (due to the hack, etc. we have been forced to have new program scripts written).
Regarding customers and what they had to say, it's quite simple: people wanted to know why the site was down and/or where there product was. It was basically impossible to ship as our admin system was not accessable for quite some time. We also couldn't fetch customer details. Our merchant information however, was not affected as it's hadled through a seperate banking system. Obviously, this was not good for us or our customers, period. There were two posts regarding this matter on ADT. Despite what Steph has written we've had many, many positive remarks made regarding our site (all of those of course prior to the crash).
As far as shipping time goes, it should be listed by title. If it's here in stock it will say 'Ships Now'. If it doesn't, then it depends on the studio. Example: JM Productions ships in 2-3 Days. Devil's Films in 3-5. It all depends on the studio and stock level. I'm going to check our site right away as I'm wondering if this feature was disabled and needs to be re-set.... 
Indeed, our prices are very, very, low. In general, we beat any internet shops prices quite handidly. We have a kick-ass download system and we do our best for each and every customer. We are a three person operation with the single goal of providing top quality stroke material globaly.
Once again, the main reason for posting all of this is to let people out there know that we will not tolerate her actions. A site that is supposedly consumer friendly and acts as if it were an independent source for buyers, simply isn't. If Steph had simply not locked the negative posts and kept the thread open for discussion - both good and bad - we never would have asked her to delete any and all posts regarding DVD Exotic. But with her locking these posts and leaving her or Drews own negative comments with them, we feel that Steph is doing not only a disservice to our business, but to adult film fans as well.
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#4365 - 07/17/03 11:38 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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So far there have been 8 posts regarding DVD Exotic and ADT. Here's one from Astroknight: Posted - Jul 17 2003 : 12:02:39 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The one good thing I can say about "that store" is that they asked that everything about them be removed. This seems a little far. Yes, there were some negative posts about them, but I saw some nice bright spots in them. Some of the threads were obviously personal attacks that didn't belong, and the people who posted them were persistent enough that those complaining had lost all credibility with me. "That store's" rep who appeared here seemed very willing to work with people to try to resolve any problems. As is, this seems to go a little far, and the mix of crybabying and threats turns me off that even if things were somehow resolved, I don't think I'll be giving them (or any other Vidshop owned company I learn of) any business in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------ Comments regarding our business on a site like ADT is important to us. Not being able to reply to these posts and having very negative comments made about us without the ability for anyone to reply is a very serious matter to us. If we sound like we're 'crybabying', oh well. Our bread and butter comes from this DVD Exotic. We have no other source of income and this is what feeds our families. This is much, much more than a hobby for us. I wish I could post this on ADT, but they've censored us. Oncve again, thanks for the opportunity to air this matter. Also, a couple of you asked me if I'm hot. Well, I am. But I'm even hotter with a stream of piss flying by... 
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#4367 - 07/17/03 03:06 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hello Again,
Drew sent us this letter and asked us to post it. Okay, here it is.
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-------Original Message-------
From: Drew Black
Date: Thursday, July 17, 2003 3:39:40 PM
To: sales@dvdexotic.com
Subject: FW: DVD Exotic
While your having fun on xxxporntalk.com you might want to post this one too:
-----Original Message-----
From: Damon [mailto:damon@dvdexotic.com]
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:09 PM
To: drew@adultdvdtalk.com
Cc: Steph - Adult DVD Talk
Subject: DVD Exotic
Hello Drew,
First off, I wanted to address this letter to both you and Steph. You may or may not be aware of the fact that I've written Steph several occasions regarding Nevco International and it's relationship to DVD Exotic.
In late November 2002, Nevco International bought the domain DVD Exotic. Contrary to Steph's original thought, Exotic is not owned or operated by Vidshop After my first couple of exchanges with Steph, it was brought to my attention that ADT will not work with anyone affiliated with Vidshop. This puts us in a difficult position. We respect and admire the work that you two have put into ADT, and we really want to help to contribute to it as a sponsor. But at the same time, we receive a good amount of revenue from our link on Vidshop's home page.
In the last letter I received from Steph, she said that ADT will not do business with anyone associated with Vidshop. For the life of me I cannot figure out why. Our company has been put into a terrible postion that seems unfair. I've never dealt with ADT in the past, yet because of our link, our business is forced to suffer. I guess what I'm asking you is this: What do we need to do to get on your site? We have worked too hard at making this site the best on the net, with the lowest prices, and competitive coupons. We also have the best affiliate percentage. We offer 20% of all sales generated.
Thanks for your Time,
Damon
DVD Exotic
------------------------------------------------------------
We've already stated that we wanted to advertise on ADT. I don't know what he's trying to point out here.
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/18/03 05:21 AM)
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#4368 - 07/17/03 04:01 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 6
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How about a few facts? Shall we?
DVD Exotic.com was founded in 1999 by two Isreali gentleman under the business name Geo Entertainment. They built up the business during this time to a very successful, profitable retail shop specializing in DVDs.
In April of 2002 this business was purchased by the owners of Vidshop.com. They bought the site's code, database, customer list and domain name. The DNS servers for the dvdexotic.com and adultdvdexotic.com domain names were switched at this time to Vidshop's hosting company. (They remain there until this day.) The US Flag link on Vidshop's entrance page was redircted to dvdexotic.com at this time too. The previous owners continued to do order fulfillment, process returns and handle customer service for DVD Exotic from their facility in the San Fernando valley.
Sometime between July and October 2002 Nevco International was formed as a shell company by the owners of Vidshop. The reason for this was that they needed their own U.S. based legal business entity in order to secure a merchant account. After Nevco was formed and they were able to process their own internet orders DVD Exotic's operations, inventory, order fulfillment and customer service was moved to Las Vegas.
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#4369 - 07/17/03 04:26 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 6
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I apologize. DVD Exotic was founded in the fall of 1998, not 1999.
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#4370 - 07/17/03 04:38 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 6
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With a little research on http://sos.state.nv.us/corp_nme.asp I was able to determine that Nevco International was formed on June 19th 2002. Damon Williams is the President, Vice President and Secretary.
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#4371 - 07/17/03 06:04 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hello Again,
This is what I love about XXX Porn Talk - you can post whatever you want! I really don't want to lose focus of my original point here, but Sir Rosis has forced me to digress for a moment....
By the way, who is Sir Rosis? Anyone venture to guess? Well, from what I could see, Sir Rosis has made a total of five posts since joining this wonderful community back on 5/06/03. His or her first thread was that regarding The Fashionistas titled "Who wants THE FASHIONISTAS for almost free?" It read:
Re: Who wants THE FASHIONISTAS for almost free?
#652 - 05/06/03 05:33 PM Edit Reply Quote
$10 is good. how can I get copy? is it dvd or cd rom?
------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Rowsis made a second post nearly a month later on 05/30/03. The subject this time was "ADT rewrites history"
Sir Rowsis went on to write:
Re: ADT rewrites history
#1373 - 05/30/03 06:12 AM Edit Reply Quote
You make so many evil post for ADT why go back there? You have web site. Make your chats there.
------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, Sir Rowsis makes his or her 3rd, 4th and 5th posts nearly two months later and all on one subject: "Censorship On ADT?"
------------------------------------------------------------
I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that Sir Rosis is a person very near and dear to the heart of all this. If I'm right, why won't this person use their real name? Is it because doing so would vindicate everything we've said so far by pointing out the double standard on ADT? If I'm wrong, then I'm simply wrong....
Regarding Sir Rosis posts, I haven't much to say. The detective work conducted here is both right and wrong, but most importantly, it's totally un-related to the subject at hand: Censorship On ADT. These last few posts by Sir Rosis are only attempts at changing the course of this thread.
The e-mail that Drew asked us to post on this board was sent April 14th, 2003. Sice that time we had no communication with ADT until we sent the letter that was posted here and on ADT July 15th, 2003.
Our request was simple. Take down any posts regarding DVD Exotic. The reason for the request is due to the fact that they selectively locked negative posts regarding our website. We strongly feel that this was done to put us in a poor light. If the threads were never locked, we wouldn't even be here writing about this. Frankly, if people want to praise us or hate us, that is fine. But when anyone is denied the right to reply, we want no part of it. If Sir Rosis would like to argue otherwise, I'm all eyes on this board. Otherwise, please bait and switch somewhere else.
Edited by ExoticGirl (07/17/03 06:24 PM)
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#4372 - 07/17/03 06:18 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Also,
I want to quickly add that I'm not going to beat this issue into the dirt. I came to this board with one simple - but important - point to make. And I think that point has been made very clearly now.
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#4373 - 07/18/03 09:02 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Bukkake Boy
Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 614
Loc: Boston, MA.
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Those free speech haters at ADT are at it again . When will you people in the porn industry wake up and stop supporting those who are against everything you stand for ? The evil that is ADT must be stopped .  censorship on adt? Drew from adt writes: it's a standard policy in our forum to close/discourage threads of a personal customer service nature. this same policy applies to our long term advertisers and non-advertisers alike. the two threads that spawned this ridiculous chain of events were actually started by the same Australian customer complaining about his order. The customer went so far as to post his order number, status updates, dates of personal correspondence and attempts to contact DVD Exotic to resolve the problems with his order. The subsequent responses in each of the forum threads started by the jaded customer from steph and myself were instructions to this person that our forum is not a place to handle customer service issues. We in no way made negative statements towards DVD Exotic, the negative tone was directed at the customer. The threads were locked because our forum is not a place for retailers to update a customer on order status, not to prevent DVD Exotic from getting in touch with their customer base. DVD Exotic neglects to mention that they used the "email member" function available in the ADT forum to contact their customers on several occasions when DVD Exotic's site and email service was out of commission for 10+ days. They had the ability to start a new thread of their own in order to update their customers on the general status of their recovery from catastrophe. We did not prevent them from doing so. Exoticgirl lost her posting privileges when we received her 'remove these posts or else' email. We did not ban their IP range or ExoticGuy's posting privileges. They are still able to access the site. When people had nice things to say about Exotic we left it there for everyone to see. They even took the opportunity to promote themselves in the process. Furthermore, ADT and DVD Exotic are in no way affiliated. Were we not doing them a favor by immediately discouraging and stopping extremely negative discussions started by seriously pissed of customers wanting to know where their orders were? We couldn't offer these upset customers any feedback or suggestions since we have no communication with the folks at DVD Exotic.
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#4374 - 07/18/03 12:15 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 1043
Loc: Warsaw, Poland
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Check it out. I found this reply on Setgo. I must say, DVD Exotic puts up a hell of a fight. This is almost becoming a David vs. Goliath battle.... 
We're really trying to avoid a big blowout, but we feel that we need an opportunity to reply here. If you could post it, it would be greatly appreciated.
Like Drew, we agree that a forum is not the proper place to discuss personal customer service issues. As far as Drews claims to not making negative comments...well, they're gone now - shame on us. If he could make them re-appear, that would be great. Drew is also correct in that we contacted customers using the ADT 'email member' function to find these posters e-mail adresses. These posters use Yahoo and Hotmail e-mail services. We contacted these customers after the threads were locked.
Drew also mentions that we had an ability to begin a thread of our own. I can't take this seriously as the last two posts regarding our site were locked. Also, we don't advertise on ADT. It really makes no sense for them to allow us to begin a thread regarding our site, but I personally feel that it is only fair for anyone or any business to be given the opportunity to reply to statements made about them. We were never informed of the possibility to begin a thread either. For him to say this long after the fact is simply pointless. However, there is no question that ADT allowed positive things to be said about us. I've never questioned that, in fact, I thanked them for it.
As far as our e-mail sent to Drew and Steph is concerened, yes, Exoticgirl stated that she would "explore further action". I wouldn't quite classify this as an "or else" statement. Besides, the e-mail was posted on their board for all the world to see. So I highly doubt they took it that seriously. It seems quite clear that they're using that letter as a means to put a spin on the enire situation. The fact of the matter is that they left two threads locked, one with the comment - or better 'advice' - from Drew to "chargeback". Steph also made a comment in another closed thread that does not take the position of that of a third party, but that of a highly misinformed opinion. Exoticgirl has been banned from posting on ADT . Though Drew claims Exoticguy can post, the password is for some reason not working. However, we're still able to read threads.
Finally, I'd like to quote Drew in his last statement:
" Furthermore, ADT and DVD Exotic are in no way affiliated. Were we not doing them a favor by immediately discouraging and stopping extremely negative discussions started by seriously pissed of customers wanting to know where their orders were? We couldn't offer these upset customers any feedback or suggestions since we have no communication with the folks at DVD Exotic."
That's right, we are not affiliated. Did they do us a favor by locking these posts? Certainly not. The most logical and professional thing to do would have been to let us reply to the customers via forum and keep the thread unlocked, or delete the thread and e-mail the poster requesting that he or she contact us via another medium as Drew and Steph have already stated countless times that their forum is not one to be used for customer service. To keep two posts up casting our site in the most negative of ways and to go even further by having these posts locked and commented upon by the owners of ADT is beyond intolerable.
Anyone that has any experience in business will tell you that bad word of mouth travels faster than anything other form of advertising. We have never used their boards to self-promote. Yes, we've replied to threads - both good and bad. But once they censored threads regarding our business we felt we had no option but to act. People could post negative things about us all day long if they choose to, we just want to make sure that differing opinions can be expressed. As far as ADT having no way of reaching DVD Exotic? I find that hard to believe, especially considering the fact that Drew, Steph and I have spoken via e-mail as far back as December and as recently as today
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/18/03 12:30 PM)
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#4375 - 07/18/03 12:44 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 1
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Hey ExoticGirl, you forget that YOU are the one who brought out all this mess about DVD Exotic when you posted those emails here for everyone to see, so don't get pissed that Sir Rowsis called you out on it. You say its a little fishy that he has so much inside info about your history but I think you are the one who's trying to pull the wool over our eyes by being deceptive in the first place. All this bullshit still won't dimish the fact that your site is operated by a bunch of incompetent idiots and its no wonder so many people complained of your lousy service. No worries, I'll continue to stick with Adult DVD Empire and Five Star DVD where they really care about their customers and avoid needless hassles. I suggest everyone do the same.
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#4376 - 07/18/03 01:13 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Sorry 'John Smyth', but your post is full of holes. First, we posted two e-mails on this board. The first e-mail was the one that was sent to Drew and Steph privately. They decided to post it on their board. Thusly - since we were censored from ADT - we posted parts of the ADT thread here.
The second e-mail was posted as requested by Drew himself. Scroll up the thread and see what he has to say yourself. By the way, I'm still wondering who Sir Rosis is. Anybody have a guess?
Also, by Drews own addmission, the two negative ADT posts were made by the same person. This hardly adds up to the ".....so many people complained...." statement you made. In fact, all you need to do is read wrote Drew said regarding the positive posts we've recieved. There have been several, and we're delighted by this.
The rest of your post is only that of a desperate attempt to make us look bad. But honestly 'John Smyth', who really looks bad here?
All I can say is that this was yet another, obviously poorly executed cheap shot made by someone or some group on the defensive.
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#4378 - 07/22/03 11:11 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hi Plum,
You've made several strong points. However, I think you need to realize a couple of important things here. First, if ADT had preffered for our posting a seperate thread regarding the status of our site, then why didn't they write us and tell us this? Certainly they could've replied to our e-mail - the one that was posted on their boards. I would never be so brash as to post a thread of our own, afterall, we aren't advertisers. To top all of this off Noel, exoticgirl was banned from posting, so how could we really start a thread? They claimed that they had no way of contacting us, well I think we all know that this is a bit too much to believe. I think the statement made regarding our ability to make a new thread was simply spin control.
As far as debating the issues, when and where is the proper forum? This seems like the best place as we couldn't on ADT. And you know - as well as anyone else - that this forum is pretty open to free thinking discussion.
If you read the letter that we sent to ADT it spells out our concerns quite clearly. Was our letter stronly written? Yes. But once again, given the circumstances, we had no choice.
As I've stated so many times already, I'm not here to trash a board or any particular group. My purpouse is to explain what happened and why.
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#4380 - 07/22/03 11:06 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 07/22/03
Posts: 536
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Very interesting that your views were ignored, Exoticgirl. That seems a common fetish among the owners of ADT If they don't like you, or what you've said, they don't say so, they just ignore your posts. Careful to notice that.
Thanks, Lord Byron. 
Edited by whtzahor4 (07/24/03 06:10 AM)
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#4383 - 07/24/03 12:03 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Hitler killed the jews and ADT kills free speech . They are one in the same . Steph and Drew should make each user fill out a questioner so they can ban all of us niggers as well . 
Or they could just ban you for being a stupid twat. It is good to see that you utilise the free speech available here not to debate things you otherwise could not but to come the cunt and talk unbridled shit. Why don't you get a grip of yourself and realise that it's space cadets like you, supposedly championing free speech, who actually force people to make more rules, not less.
SNP.
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#4384 - 07/24/03 12:29 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hi Noel,
In regards to your questiong our M.O. with ADT, well all I can say is that hindsight is always 20/20. I do stand behind our decision though and feel that we made the right choice.
You need to remeber one thing Noel, communication is a two way street. We sent an e-mail with a very simple request. Our request was granted and our letter posted for the world to see. Now I ask you: could that have been handled differently? Have you communicated your thoughts with others on that issue? I could be wrong, but I think you tend to look at things one way. What we could've, should've, would've etc. is all fine and good, but try to look at the big picture here.
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#4386 - 07/24/03 11:08 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/24/03
Posts: 1
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Just wanted to put in my two cents worth and state that anyone who has met Drew and Steph also knows that they are honorable, respectable people and deserve our thanks for the way they've brought porn fandom and adult public figures together via their website. The standards and practices they enforce on their Forums may not be for everyone, but it prevents the messages from degenerating into out of control flame wars and just plain utter nonsense (as seen in almost every Yahoo! News message board).
Obviously, I like the two of them personally, but I also believe that their integrity and hard work speak for themselves.
Diesel
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#4387 - 07/25/03 05:17 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 257
Loc: Porn valley ca
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Quote:
Just wanted to put in my two cents worth and state that anyone who has met Drew and Steph also knows that they are honorable, respectable people and deserve our thanks for the way they've brought porn fandom and adult public figures together via their website. The standards and practices they enforce on their Forums may not be for everyone, but it prevents the messages from degenerating into out of control flame wars and just plain utter nonsense (as seen in almost every Yahoo! News message board).
Obviously, I like the two of them personally, but I also believe that their integrity and hard work speak for themselves.
Diesel
So guys, which one of ADT's minions do you think wrote this??? or am I reading it all wrong ????
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#4389 - 07/25/03 11:51 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 44
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Quote:
Hi Noel,
In regards to your questiong our M.O. with ADT, well all I can say is that hindsight is always 20/20. I do stand behind our decision though and feel that we made the right choice.
You need to remeber one thing Noel, communication is a two way street. We sent an e-mail with a very simple request. Our request was granted and our letter posted for the world to see. Now I ask you: could that have been handled differently? Have you communicated your thoughts with others on that issue? I could be wrong, but I think you tend to look at things one way. What we could've, should've, would've etc. is all fine and good, but try to look at the big picture here.
Hi EG,
Just two points.
You sent the e-mail and, as you say your request was granted. Taking the initial problems as given I don't really think you can ask for anything more than for ADT to have fully complied with your request. If I bought a faulty torch, asked the shopkeeper for my money back and he gave me it back, could I really feel hard done by. If ADT has followed your e-mail to the letter then are they not deserving of some credit?
Secondly you ask slightly cryptically if I have communicated my thoughts with others on the issue. If by this you mean is Drew/Steph aware that I agree with you that not being allowed to address your critics is unsatisfactory then I can tell you that 'yes' they are aware of my feelings.
Yours,
SNP.
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#4391 - 07/27/03 05:19 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 33
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SNP, once again we are talking about PORN not bars or lounges. We definitely shouldn't put up with censorship in PORN. So to show your support against censorship it would be wise for you to boycott ADT.
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#4393 - 07/28/03 02:16 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Hi EG,
Just two points.
You sent the e-mail and, as you say your request was granted. Taking the initial problems as given I don't really think you can ask for anything more than for ADT to have fully complied with your request. If I bought a faulty torch, asked the shopkeeper for my money back and he gave me it back, could I really feel hard done by. If ADT has followed your e-mail to the letter then are they not deserving of some credit?
Secondly you ask slightly cryptically if I have communicated my thoughts with others on the issue. If by this you mean is Drew/Steph aware that I agree with you that not being allowed to address your critics is unsatisfactory then I can tell you that 'yes' they are aware of my feelings.
Yours,
SNP.
Noel,
I'm just wondering, how did you communicate your feelings? Via post? E-mail? I never saw a post from you stating your position with them, but I've seen many from you here regarding our course of action and how we supposedly approached it in such a questionable manner. Honestly, I see a lot of your finger wagging directed towards us (obviously we aren't as swift as you...especially after the fact) but very, very little the other way.
As far as our letter being followed to the 'T', yes, it was. The e-mail was also posted and commented upon. Funny though it was never locked and I was unable to reply.
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#4395 - 08/03/03 10:35 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3
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Quote:
The standards and practices they enforce on their Forums may not be for everyone, but it prevents the messages from degenerating into out of control flame wars and just plain utter nonsense (as seen in almost every Yahoo! News message board).
i agree 100% with what Diesel says here. some of you have some uneducated and clearly simple-minded views of what constitutes free speech and censorship. just because you can't say whatever vitriolic bullshit you want on *their* forum without it being *moderated* does not mean they are against free speech and advocate censorship. are they filing suit against people for posting things with which they disagree? are they telling people they absolutely can't say certain things?
if you invite me over to your house and i start talking trash about your family would you be anti-free speech for kicking me out? but ADT is a public forum, you say. a public forum which is privately owned. public in the sense that anyone and everyone is initially welcome to join. i suppose if i go to a restaurant and comment to every single female patron on the size of her breasts, the owners would be nazi dictators for kicking me out. or if i visit a zoo or a museum and start telling every parent i see that their child is butt-ugly - only narrow-minded, anti-free speech communists would have me escorted off the premises. publicly owned premises, i might add.
the incredible irony here is that Exoticgirl has proven herself that ADT is not against free speech with the creation of this thread and the contents within. are steph and drew threatening legal action against DVD Exotic for libel? have they anywhere stated that Exoticgirl cannot/should not be allowed to say negative things about them elsewhere? if the answer to either of those questions was a YES, then they would be discouraging freedom of speech.
so let's clarify things: yes, ADT is against allowing people to say *anything* they want on their site at any time. and for good reason, in the opinion of many. is that the same thing as being against free speech? only a simple-minded fool would think so. while i'm on the subject, i rather doubt that xxxporntalk.com allows people to say *anything* they want *anytime.* shall i spam the board with 50 posts in a row about how much i love michelle wild to find out? or post non-stop advertisements for penis enlargement pills? i wonder ...
P.S. i am no way, shape or form affiliated with ADT nor have i ever received any concrete benefit from them, monetary or otherwise. i AM a semi-regular poster on ADT (using the screen name wetmartini), my real name is Sam, and i DO support the way they run their site, as i support the *freedom* of any person to moderate a forum of his or her *own creation* to his or her *own liking.*
peace out
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#4396 - 08/03/03 10:48 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 274
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the fact is some people on adt get special treatment and can say whatever they want, people from rld can insult anyone they want and nothing is being done about it yet jeff steward gets banned for speaking his mind. this is fucked up. fuck dion he pays adt for this special treatment and so he can promote his fucking anabolic clone movies which suck anyway. jm productions makes better movies than rld and that's a fact nobody can deny.
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#4397 - 08/03/03 10:59 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3
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detecting special treatment is about as subjective as subjective can get. reminds me of a child complaining to his/her parents that they are showing favortism towards a sibling.
i'm not saying you *are* wrong. i'm saying it's so subjective you *could easily* be wrong. i've seen so many industry people scolded by mods on ADT for mean posts or flames and seen a number of threads closed for the same reason, that it's hard for me to think ADT shows favorism towards porn companies.
could they be showing favortism on their forums towards RLD and/or a few other companies? maybe, but i personally don't believe it.
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#4398 - 08/03/03 11:22 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 33
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Wetmartini you came up with ridiculous examples to justify CENSORSHIP on ADT. First of all nothing can justify CENSORSHIP in PORN. ADT is a PORN forum not your house, museum, zoo or restaurant. On ADT you can only say stuff that Steph and Drew and their moderators agree with and approve. This should not be tolerated by anybody who loves PORN and likes to express their thoughts, opinions, feelings
and speak their minds. So this means that ADT is full of shit and ass kissers. Wetmartini go kiss some more ass on ADT. XXXPORNTALK ROCKS IT IS A TRUE PORN FORUM.
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#4399 - 08/03/03 11:33 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 274
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i read threads where jon dough and mike stephano are insulting fans and they have not been banned. if a fan had done the same thing they would have banned in a minute. the only reason why they have not been banned is because dion is their boss and he calls the shots at adt not drew or steph. why else did everybody choose the side of rld in that anabolic lawsuit thread?
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#4400 - 08/03/03 12:41 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 44
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Quote:
First of all nothing can justify CENSORSHIP in PORN
Please explain why. I'm sick of hearing this line trotted out without ever hearing an argument to justify it.
There seems to be some confusion amongst some posters on this board that porn is about free speech and pushing boundaries into a utopian world where you are free to represent whatever you wish however you wish to. It is not: porn is about watching people fuck.
SNP.
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#4401 - 08/03/03 01:03 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 44
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Quote:
i read threads where jon dough and mike stephano are insulting fans and they have not been banned. if a fan had done the same thing they would have banned in a minute. the only reason why they have not been banned is because dion is their boss and he calls the shots at adt not drew or steph. why else did everybody choose the side of rld in that anabolic lawsuit thread?
I have read the Stefano thread you mention and whilst I don't know if any warnings were given behind the scenes he did seem to get off very lightly for what was in fact a massive verbal bombardment which was totally unjustifed (he has since totally apologised for the post). I personally wouldn't have banned him on the basis of this one post (were it up to me) but I do agree it seemed to be glossed over someawhat.
Jeffs banning had a rather different tone. At the time I thought it was totally justified and I still do. If I wanted to get banned I'd make the sorts of posts Jeff was making; he is clearly an intelligent fella and I sort of wonder if getting banned (or pushing at the limits) was his intention.
The thread where Jeff was banned was actually a very good one as it highlighted just why you do need censorship if you actually want to discuss something sensibly. The issue at hand concerned whether it is acceptable to call women sluts/whores in porn (which I have no problem with) but the thread was somewhat hijacked and all possibility of rational discussion rendered impossible by the posts of Jeff and Wanker Wang (who somehow escaped banning) who both chose to embark on a World Wrestling Federation style hyperbole extravaganza on why porn women are the scum of the earth (quite amusingly written most of it but guaranteed to inflame and upset given the nature of ADT).
Interestingly talking of censorship, one of the moderators later locked the thread (I believe mainly due to a post I had made) but the thread was reopened by Steph which hardly fits in with this caracature that is being painted.
Finally, why did everybody choose the side of PX in the Anabolic lawsuit? I swear on my life that I have no allegiance with Dion or anyone associated with RLD or PXP but I thought Anabolic were out of order and I still do. If you truly want to believe that Dion somehow has me over a barrel then I don't know what to say - he's thousands of miles away from me and if I thought Anabolic were right to sue I'd have said so, make no mistake.
SNP.
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#4402 - 08/03/03 10:40 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Wetmartini,
Exactly what did I post on ADT that would be considered 'bullshit', as you so lovingly put it? I suggest you take a very close look at this thread again from beginning to end before you pass judgement on me or DVD Exotic. My points are simple and well backed up. Please, take the high road and address these. Thanks Martini!
Noel Plum, What happened? You never replied to my last post regarding your previous statements. That was over a week ago.
Good Day
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#4403 - 08/03/03 11:51 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Wetmartini,
Exactly what did I post on ADT that would be considered 'bullshit', as you so lovingly put it? I suggest you take a very close look at this thread again from beginning to end before you pass judgement on me or DVD Exotic. My points are simple and well backed up. Please, take the high road and address these. Thanks Martini!
Noel Plum, What happened? You never replied to my last post regarding your previous statements. That was over a week ago.
Good Day
Exoticgirl, exactly where did i say you posted bullshit on ADT? in this sentence? -
"just because you can't say whatever vitriolic bullshit you want on *their* forum without it being *moderated* does not mean they are against free speech and advocate censorship."
sorry, perhaps i should have used "one" instead of "you." i was speaking generally and meant "you" plural. most of my post wasn't directed towards your situation with ADT at all, except maybe to address your notion of censorship. a few people here seem to think that ADT is against freedom of speech because they actively *moderate* their forums - hence my comment about vitriolic bullshit. the moderation is mostly to prevent such posts from proliferating and degenerating the forum into a mass of asinine and immature flame wars and trashtalking, as has become incredibly prevalent here. i must admit though, it does have some strange entertainment value.
as per your situation with ADT, i pass no judgement whatsoever. in fact if what you say about Steph and Drew locking the thread after posting some negative comments is true, i would even side with you in thinking it unfair. unfortunately, by your request, all the "evidence" was deleted. even if it were true, along with all the other allegations of favortism, unfairness, etc. - so what? they are, after all, very human and like all humans are prone to making mistakes, having character flaws, biases, thinking subjectively, etc., etc., etc. i often find myself somewhat disagreeing with the specific actions of some mods at ADT. yet, is any one of us claiming to be any better? have you treated every person you've met fairly without bias? have you never shown favortism towards another individual? even still, thanks to freedom of speech you have the ability to express your feelings of disgruntlement here or elsewhere. your complaints about receiving unfair treatment may even be 100% justified, although there is absolutely nothing here to justify or support the claim of ADT being anti-free speech.
incidentally, no matter which dictionary you might check, the definition of "censorship" always centers around the *deletion or removal* of information, or prevention of access to information. locking or closing a thread does not necessarily constitute censorship.
furthermore, censorship, in and of itself, does not by any means constitute a violation of free speech or antagonism towards it. censorship occurs every day, in every place by every person. parents who prevent their children from watching certain movies, or accessing certain websites are excercising censorship. i could go on and on and on. are these behaviors anti-free speech? of course not. you may have the freedom to say whatever you want but i also have the freedom to keep myself from hearing it or reading it. hence freedom of speech does NOT mean you can say anything you want any*WHERE* you want.
if any of you hardcore, pro-freedom, anti-establishment anarchists take nothing else from anything i write, please remember at least this: civil liberties can only be considered rightful freedoms when they don't infringe on the freedoms of others. perhaps the best and most extreme example of this was the argument the Confederacy gave to the Union just prior to the Secession. they considered themselves victims of Northern abolitionist policy because their "freedom" to own slaves was being taken away. ironic, isn't it?
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#4405 - 08/04/03 12:50 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Via e-mail, ok. I really don't want to get in the dirt about this one with you, but where did you state this opinion of yours 'explicitly'? I'm usually doing ten things at once here, so pointing it out would be appreciated as I never saw anything 'explicit' on your part.
Thanks again Noel.
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#4406 - 08/04/03 01:07 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 16
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Wetmartini wrote:
as per your situation with ADT, i pass no judgement whatsoever. in fact if what you say about Steph and Drew locking the thread after posting some negative comments is true, i would even side with you in thinking it unfair.
------------------------------------------------------------
Wetmartini,
This has been the whole point. If posters wish to comment on the ADT board regarding DVD Exotic - good or bad - that is fine. Overall, we've had far more positive posts on ADT than negative posts. But once a thread is locked, we take issue. Just remeber, this is our business at stake. I'll give credit where credit is due, ADT has created a community that is often visited and it's a site that has some overall usefullness. With that said, we find actions like the locking of posts intolerable, especially when it has to do with our business. If a thread is left locked (in this case two threads), leaving a particularly bad impression, well how do you think that leaves us? The impression left on the board, for seasoned shoppers and newbies alike, is that we are not to be dealt with. This concerns us. If it were your site, it would concern you too.
Thanks
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#4409 - 08/06/03 11:58 PM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 08/06/03
Posts: 1
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stop kissing ugly steph's ass sir plum! your breath
smells like her disgusting tampons! adt restricts
free speech to the point of fat steph's likings.
others flame & they get tossed immediately while
others (some in the business) don't. enuff said!
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#4410 - 08/07/03 12:59 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 04/26/03
Posts: 44
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Quote:
stop kissing ugly steph's ass sir plum! your breath
smells like her disgusting tampons!
I don't quite follow the logic in this sentence. You seem to be labouring under the false impression that women stick tampons up their ass which I must inform you is not the case.
Tampons are used to stem the flow of blood during the menstrual cycle therefore the smell of one of Stephs 'disgusting tampons' will likely be wholly different to the smell of my tongue once extricated from her anus.
I really have no problem reading your pointless (not to mention baseless) rant but you could at least attempt to make your insults slightly more logical in future.
SNP.
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#4411 - 08/07/03 06:25 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 33
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Plum, it's already been established that you are an ADT ass kisser.
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#4412 - 08/07/03 06:34 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 274
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i don't know why people still visit adt. i mean it's all one big red light district promotion board where everybody is kissing dion's ass. he's playing this fucking humble act while behind the scenes he's paying off drew and steph so he and his directors can say and flame everybody they want without being banned. fuck red light district and their anabolic copycat movies. i would rather buy jm productions movies because they're a lot better!
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#4414 - 08/07/03 09:16 AM
Re: Censorship On ADT???
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ADT regular
Registered: 08/07/03
Posts: 2
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So who the fuck are Vidshop and what's ADT got against them?
Aza
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1 registered (1 invisible),
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Key:
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Mod
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Funny thing is that if this where ADT your comments would have just gotten your ip address banned so not only would you not be able to read the shit we are talking about you but you would also be unable post a response . 
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