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#419684 - 04/28/09 01:18 AM Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Anonymous
Unregistered


AP Story


Recriminations after NYC jet flyover photo op
By ULA ILNYTZKY and SARA KUGLER – 41 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP) — It was supposed to be a photo op that captured images of an Air Force One plane with a majestic Statue of Liberty in the background. Instead, it turned into a public relations nightmare that led to recriminations from the president and mayor and prompted thousands other to ask, "What were they thinking?"

Just before the workday began on Monday, an airliner and supersonic fighter jet zoomed past the lower Manhattan skyline. Within minutes, startled financial workers streamed out of their offices, fearing a nightmarish replay of Sept. 11.

For a half-hour, the Boeing 747 and F-16 jet circled the Statue of Liberty and the Financial District near the World Trade Center site. Offices evacuated. Dispatchers were inundated with calls. Witnesses thought the planes were flying dangerously low.

But the flyover was nothing but a photo op, apparently one of a series of flights to get pictures of the plane in front of national landmarks.

It was carried out by the Defense Department with little warning, infuriating New York officials and putting the White House on the defense. Even Mayor Michael Bloomberg didn't know about it, and he later called it "insensitive" to fly so near the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

The director of the White House military office, Louis Caldera, took the blame a few hours later. One of the planes was a 747 that is called Air Force One when used by the president.

"Last week, I approved a mission over New York. I take responsibility for that decision," Caldera said. "While federal authorities took the proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, it's clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that flight caused."

When told of the flight, President Barack Obama was furious, a White House official said on the condition of anonymity to discuss private conversations.

Still, federal officials provided few details and wouldn't say why the public and area building security managers weren't notified. They also wouldn't address why someone thought it was a wise decision to send two jets into New York City, all for a few photos with the Statue of Liberty as a backdrop.

An administration official said the purpose of the photo op was to update file photos of the president's plane near the Lady Liberty.

This official said the White House military office told the Federal Aviation Administration that it was updating file photos of Air Force One near national landmarks. The official requested anonymity to give more details than the official White House announcement.

An Air Force combat photographer took pictures from one of the fighter jets, administration officials said.

The photo op was combined with a training exercise to save money, according to another administration official who also spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to speak publicly about the behind-the-scenes discussions about the flight.

The FAA notified the New York Police Department of the flyover, telling them photos of the Air Force One jet would be taken about 1,500 feet above the Statue of Liberty around 10 a.m. Monday. It had a classified footnote that said, "Information in this document shall not be released to the public or the media."

"Why the Defense Department wanted to do a photo op right around the site of the World Trade Center catastrophe defies the imagination," Bloomberg said. "Poor judgment would be a nice way to phrase it. ... Had I known about it, I would have called them right away and asked them not to."

NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said typically a flight like this would be publicized to avoid causing a panic, but they were under orders not to in this case. They regularly get requests for flyovers, but without secrecy restrictions.

The FAA also alerted an official in the mayor's office, but he didn't tell Bloomberg, who said he first learned about it when his "BlackBerry went off crazy with people complaining about it."

The Bloomberg official who was notified was Marc Mugnos, director of operations for the Office of Citywide Event Coordination and Management. Mugnos didn't immediately respond to questions about why he didn't tell the mayor; Bloomberg's spokesman Stu Loeser issued a statement saying: "He has been reprimanded and a disciplinary letter will be placed in his file."

Workers in lower Manhattan were stunned by what they saw.

John Leitner, a floor trader at the New York Mercantile Exchange Building, said about 1,000 people "went into a total panic" and ran out of the building around 10 a.m. after seeing the planes whiz by.

"We were informed after we cleared out of there," Leitner said. "I kind of think heads should roll a little bit on that."

Employees of the Wall Street Journal also left their desks to see what was going on.

Kathleen Seagriff, a staff assistant, said workers heard the roar of the engines and then saw the planes from their windows.

"They went down the Hudson, turned around and came back by the building," she said. "It was a scary scene, especially for those of us who were there on 9/11."

Air Force spokesman Vince King said the "photo mission" involved one of two VC-25 aircraft. The aircraft is part of the Presidential Airlift Wing, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland.

The F-16 jet that flew alongside came from the D.C. National Guard's 113th fighter wing.

"This was a photo shoot. There was no need for surprise," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "There was no need to scare thousands of New Yorkers who still have the vivid memory of 9/11."

Associated Press writers Sara Kugler and Colleen Long in New York and Joan Lowy, Michael J. Sniffen, Phil Elliott and Anne Gearan in Washington contributed to this report.

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#419685 - 04/28/09 05:41 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
I smell the AIG bonus style of fake outrage from the WH. Papa BO knew.

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#419686 - 04/28/09 08:38 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
butterman Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 467
Loc: Yankee Stadium
What the fuck were they thinking? I am deeply concerned that the DOD thought it was OK to do with very little warning to New Yorkers. Remember this is the same brain trust that is supposed to defend us (they ceratinly take enough of our money for it!).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP-UgWsiT0E

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#419687 - 04/28/09 12:40 PM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
NitneLiun Offline
Registered Sex Offender

Registered: 07/09/06
Posts: 2362
Loc: St. Louis
The approval actually came from the military office of the White House, not the DoD. The military office of the White House is a civilian appointee.

Louis Caldera, director of the White House Military Office, apologized on Monday for approving a low-level flight of the presidential plane Air Force One over New York City that prompted panic and evacuations from residents who recalled the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. "Last week, I approved a mission over New York," Caldera said in a press release. "I take responsibility for that decision." While federal authorities took proper steps to notify state and local authorities in New York and New Jersey, Caldera said, "it is clear that the mission created confusion and disruption. I apologize and take responsibility for any distress that the flight caused." The mission, which was to take photos of the plane with the Statue of Liberty as a backdrop, created a storm of criticism from New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer of New York and other New York officials.
_________________________
"Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken."

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#419688 - 04/29/09 06:02 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind

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#419689 - 04/29/09 08:22 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
butterman Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 467
Loc: Yankee Stadium
$328,835 is an outrageous waste of our money. Photoshop is only about $85 and could have made a much better picture with causing NYC to panic!!

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#419690 - 04/29/09 11:11 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Wankus was my Daddy Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church
The crew of all three of those airplanes are required to fly a certain number of hours per month to stay "proficient" and capable of flying missions. The supposed photo op was scheduled during the crew's required flying hours.
_________________________
"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS

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#419691 - 04/29/09 12:28 PM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
amapornfreak Offline
Stormy's Lawyer

Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Under a bridge
Whoops...Weed and governement don't mix.... That or coke.

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#419692 - 05/01/09 12:15 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

The crew of all three of those airplanes are required to fly a certain number of hours per month to stay "proficient" and capable of flying missions. The supposed photo op was scheduled during the crew's required flying hours.



1. Put them in a simulator. It's a lot cheaper, and you can fake situations to see if they really know where the rarely-used gauges and controls are.

2. Those rules are devised by pilots to make sure they get to avoid commercial flying. Why do you think Astronauts fly proficiency hours when the Orbiter can land itself?
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#419693 - 05/01/09 02:11 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:

The crew of all three of those airplanes are required to fly a certain number of hours per month to stay "proficient" and capable of flying missions. The supposed photo op was scheduled during the crew's required flying hours.



1. Put them in a simulator. It's a lot cheaper, and you can fake situations to see if they really know where the rarely-used gauges and controls are.

2. Those rules are devised by pilots to make sure they get to avoid commercial flying. Why do you think Astronauts fly proficiency hours when the Orbiter can land itself?




JRV that begs the question.....why didnt NASA just take it out and let the Astronauts joy ride on the Space Shuttle....buzz all restricted airspace....nyc, dc.....nsa hq, cia hq.....go up to chi-town buzz sears tower....fuck 'em if they cant take a joke at an astronomical expense to taxpayers!

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#419694 - 05/01/09 03:40 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Wankus was my Daddy Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church
Quote:

Quote:

The crew of all three of those airplanes are required to fly a certain number of hours per month to stay "proficient" and capable of flying missions. The supposed photo op was scheduled during the crew's required flying hours.



1. Put them in a simulator. It's a lot cheaper, and you can fake situations to see if they really know where the rarely-used gauges and controls are.

2. Those rules are devised by pilots to make sure they get to avoid commercial flying. Why do you think Astronauts fly proficiency hours when the Orbiter can land itself?




These hours are in addition to simulator hours. You still need to go out and yank and bank for real. Especially the F-16 guys.
_________________________
"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS

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#419695 - 05/01/09 06:04 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:


JRV that begs the question.....why didnt NASA just take it out and let the Astronauts joy ride on the Space Shuttle....buzz all restricted airspace....nyc, dc.....nsa hq, cia hq.....go up to chi-town buzz sears tower....fuck 'em if they cant take a joke at an astronomical expense to taxpayers!



A Shuttle doesn't buzz anything! A friend of mine who flew a mission 20 years ago as a scientist was also a qualified backup pilot, and described the flight characteristics to me as "it flies like a brick with aerodynamic surfaces". And the descent rate is relentless... (75 ton supersonic gliders aren't the best at maneuvering)

Now were they to do a night launch to ISS going north I think the could adjust the track a little to the left and fly directly over DC at full throttle (325,000 ft up). The SSME engines aren't bright like the solid boosters but it would still be a neat blue UFO glow. I don't think they can go over NYC and get to ISS.

Quote:


These hours are in addition to simulator hours. You still need to go out and yank and bank for real. Especially the F-16 guys.



Yeah, but the 747 is so expensive to I think they need more carefully structured proficiency time, to make sure they get the most training per hour in the air, not just joyride for an hour. Given the price tag have an instructor plan that proficiency flight and grade the performance: make the pilot earn that hour.

And don't underestimate the simulator. NASA crashed a Shuttle a mile short of the runway in an all-up simulation in the late-1990s when an instrument had a real (unplanned) failure they did not diagnose in time. Shook up a lot of people though I think the pilot kept his job.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#419696 - 05/01/09 06:46 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:


JRV that begs the question.....why didnt NASA just take it out and let the Astronauts joy ride on the Space Shuttle....buzz all restricted airspace....nyc, dc.....nsa hq, cia hq.....go up to chi-town buzz sears tower....fuck 'em if they cant take a joke at an astronomical expense to taxpayers!



A Shuttle doesn't buzz anything! A friend of mine who flew a mission 20 years ago as a scientist was also a qualified backup pilot, and described the flight characteristics to me as "it flies like a brick with aerodynamic surfaces". And the descent rate is relentless... (75 ton supersonic gliders aren't the best at maneuvering)

Now were they to do a night launch to ISS going north I think the could adjust the track a little to the left and fly directly over DC at full throttle (325,000 ft up). The SSME engines aren't bright like the solid boosters but it would still be a neat blue UFO glow. I don't think they can go over NYC and get to ISS.





Yes I was just seeing if people knew the diff between aircraft fuel and rocket fuel...even the Concord (supersonic transport - SST - Mach 1) used it. most military aircraft That i am aware of again use jet/aircraft fuel.
SS goes into hypersonic speed (Mach 5) upon reentry...


http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/BGH/index.html

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#419697 - 05/01/09 09:49 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Wankus was my Daddy Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church


Yes I was just seeing if people knew the diff between aircraft fuel and rocket fuel...even the Concord (supersonic transport - SST - Mach 1) used it. most military aircraft That i am aware of again use jet/aircraft fuel.
SS goes into hypersonic speed (Mach 5) upon reentry...


Air Force uses JP-4 and the Navy uses JP-5 due to the need on carriers for a higher flash point. Your sitting on 2 million gallons of it on a CVN.


[
_________________________
"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS

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#419698 - 05/01/09 03:23 PM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:


Yes I was just seeing if people knew the diff between aircraft fuel and rocket fuel...even the Concord (supersonic transport - SST - Mach 1) used it. most military aircraft That i am aware of again use jet/aircraft fuel.




The Saturn V first stage used RP-1, which is essentially JP-1. The Shuttle probably should have done likewise - Hydrogen sucks as a fuel when you have warm surroundings.

The Shuttle is a true glider on landings. The RCS thrusters fire some as it comes in, but that's only to keep the attitude correct - there's no thrust along the line of flight.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#419699 - 05/01/09 03:26 PM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Uncle Joe Offline
Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
Quote:


Your sitting on 2 million gallons of it on a CVN.


[



How much for 1 gallon?

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#419700 - 05/05/09 07:12 AM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
Apparently that's not all. Obama is refusing to release the pictures and the F-16 was seen to have the red tail marker of the Tuskegee Airmen and it just so happens that George Lucas is shooting a movie about them as we speak. Payback for support?

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#419701 - 05/05/09 06:35 PM Re: Pres and NYC Mayor pissed at DOD
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


Yes I was just seeing if people knew the diff between aircraft fuel and rocket fuel...even the Concord (supersonic transport - SST - Mach 1) used it. most military aircraft That i am aware of again use jet/aircraft fuel.
SS goes into hypersonic speed (Mach 5) upon reentry...


Air Force uses JP-4 and the Navy uses JP-5 due to the need on carriers for a higher flash point. Your sitting on 2 million gallons of it on a CVN.





ya learn something new everyday….


Quote:

Quote:


Yes I was just seeing if people knew the diff between aircraft fuel and rocket fuel...even the Concord (supersonic transport - SST - Mach 1) used it. most military aircraft That i am aware of again use jet/aircraft fuel.




The Saturn V first stage used RP-1, which is essentially JP-1. The Shuttle probably should have done likewise - Hydrogen sucks as a fuel when you have warm surroundings.

The Shuttle is a true glider on landings. The RCS thrusters fire some as it comes in, but that's only to keep the attitude correct - there's no thrust along the line of flight.




I knew of the glider part via the wiki…..but interesting stuff all around!

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