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Does it make you feel better to try to classify people into one of two camps, despite it being neither germane to the discussion, or in advance of your proffered argument? If you could defend your position against the arguments I am putting forward, I am confident you would not be presupposing any political affiliation, real or otherwise, held by me.



No it doesn’t make me feel any better, it just the way life is, either people are conservatives or they’re liberals. They usually fall into one or the other all by them selves, two party system you know. Although, both are quite willing to jam their beliefs down someone else’s throat.

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Thank you for clarifying what is becoming more and more obvious from your posts -- you don't care what the words mean in the English language, but rather you will interpret them (or refuse to interpret them) however you see fit if it makes you more comfortable with a position you adopted in advance.



I don’t see my example, KSM being water boarded to save lives, in the definition you provided.

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"Saving American lives" is meaningless without context. Everything Bush (for example) did do and didn't do during his presidency could be framed as having been done with the goal of saving American lives, whether true or not.



Was he in Gitmo, water boarding KSM himself? If not he hardly pertains to this discussion. This is what liberals like to do though, throw out Bush’s name to invoke the Bush hate for the sole purpose of misdirection.

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I'm unclear why you feel KSM wasn't tortured, with you stating that having a good reason doesn't make it torture any more. These words have meanings in the language. Caveats don't take away from that, despite what the lawyers who made this possible may have written in memos during Bush's terms.



Context matters. See my KSM example above.

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From the dictionary :

the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information

From the known history of prisoners being waterboarded in US custody :




Seems rather unfair to lump every instance of possible abuse into one pile and call it all torture, all justified, or all anything. I believe case by case examinations would be a lot more equitable. How about we stick to the KSM being water boarded to save lives example?

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WAS THERE :

"the act of inflicting excruciating pain"

ANSWER :

yes



The act itself does not constitute torture. Context matters. If I inflict excruciating pain on my drive home, do they call it torture or a collision?

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WAS IT DONE :

"as punishment or revenge"

ANSWER :

yes



Wrong, as I’ve stated it was done to save lives.

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WAS IT DONE :

"as a means of getting a confession or information"

ANSWER :

yes



Wrong, see previous answer.

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"really good reasons to do it" change nothing about it being torture, they just attempt to provide justification for it.



The intentions behind people actions are important, they count for something. Everything is not cut and dried or colored black & white, but I don’t expect you to see that.