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#416197 - 04/14/09 03:17 AM Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090413104651.aspx

'Nightly News' Doesn't Mention that Amtrak Infrastructure Spending May Just be 'Good Money After Bad'
NBC reports hundreds of billions will be needed to achieve Obama's high-speed rail goals, but ignore its estimated $700-million losses.

By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
4/13/2009 10:59:24 AM



While U.S. banks and automakers may be benefiting from taxpayer bailouts, they certainly haven’t escaped criticism of everything from their executive compensation and their business practices to the ethics of their leadership. Not so with another failed business model. National passenger rail service provider Amtrak continues to get a free pass.



An “NBC Nightly News” segment on April 11 examined the $8 billion destined for Amtrak that was included in the stimulus bill recently signed into law by President Obama. Correspondent Tom Costello’s conclusion? It’s not nearly enough.



“At Washington's Union Station, the morning rush for the express trip up the Northeast corridor: two hours and 45 minutes from D.C. to New York,” Costello said. “Another three and a half to Boston.” The high-speed trip on Amtrak’s Acela train, Costello said, is “a hit with passengers and President Obama’s working model of a new transportation system that makes high speed trains a national priority. The ultimate goal, as many as 11 high-speed corridors on both coasts, the Midwest and Deep South – using $8 billion of economic stimulus money as a down payment and billions more later.”


According to Costello, the American version of high-speed rail pales in comparison to that in Europe and Japan, since the tracks weren’t designed for high-speed trains.



“High-speed trains are already common in Europe and Japan, where bullet trains do speed along at 200 miles per hour and more,” Costello said. “But this is the country's only high-speed rail line. The Acela train travels from D.C. through Philly, through New York and up to Boston. It can hit 150 miles per hour but, because of track limitations, it really averages just 84.”



Joseph Boardman, the president and CEO of the beleaguered rail carrier, explained that to achieve Acela’s maximum potential, a $5-billion investment is needed just between Washington, D.C. and New York City.



“In order for us to go 150 miles an hour, to use the capabilities of Acela, we need investment right now of about $5 billion between Washington and New York,” Boardman said.



But it doesn’t stop there. According to Costello, the $8 billion in the stimulus is just the tip of the iceberg. Many more billions will be needed to achieve the Obama administration’s high-speed rail goals.



“Five billion just to upgrade the Acela route,” Costello said. “In California, a planned high speed line from San Francisco to L.A. is projected to cost $45 billion, which means the $8 billion in the stimulus package not yet allocated may not go very far.”



Costello omitted one detail from his report – Amtrak loses a lot of money. As reported by Reuters, Senate Republicans claim Amtrak has received over $21 billion in federal tax dollars to cover operating and capital costs since 1971. However, Amtrak loses more than $700 million annually. There’s no indication that Amtrak will do an better with billions more, or even that it’s high-speed rail priorities are in order.



Proponents point to the New York to Washington corridor as a place to put stimulus money into Amtrak, even though as Bloomberg reported on March 3 that ridership decreased 13 percent for February.



“We need to focus that money on the number one line in this country, New York to Washington, where we can best prove the success of high-speed rail,” Joseph Vranich, a railroad consultant, said.



Vranich has been consistent on his push for the focus on the northeastern Amtrak corridor. Back in 2005 Vranich condemned Amtrak’s mismanagement of federal funding, focusing on non-profitable lines instead of the Boston-New York-Washington corridor in an article for National Review.



“The real cost for a high speed network, hundreds of billions of dollars for trains and tracks,” Costello said. “The question for Congress – whether a national high-speed rail network is worth the investment.” Given the facts about Amtrak that Costello didn’t report, the probable answer is no.

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#416198 - 04/14/09 03:30 AM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


my take on it is that it is about time that we upgrade the ground transportation infrastructure other then roads and this shit costs $$$ because nothing worthwhile is CHEAP....so in the event of another "national emergency" this would be able to take thousands of people out of the city centers and elevate the mass exodus from the interstates as well as be able to avert another post 9/11 shutdown of travel throughout the country....FAA shuts down the skies....DOT doesn’t need to shut down rail travel.....some business as usual would be better then utter total gridlock!

I know for a fact that it has helped in local areas that don’t have high speed rail but have commuter rail…..balt/wash/nort va region has commuter rail as well as three counties in So Florida….it helps those without vehicles and supports getting more cars off the roads….

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#416199 - 04/14/09 06:12 AM Re: Amtrak investment
electrostatic Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/16/08
Posts: 4257
Loc: Counting Kisses
Quote:

By Jeff Poor
Business
& Media Institute
4/13/2009 10:59:24 AM



Ha! You were kidding right?


Quote:

shit costs $$$ because nothing worthwhile is CHEAP



Poor Jeff.
_________________________
"Nature already created the perfect dishwasher....its called a woman." - Fiend

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#416200 - 04/14/09 01:01 PM Re: Amtrak investment
jbs173 Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 54
[quote
By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
4/13/2009 10:59:24 AM





Always consider the source. The "Business & Media Institute" is part of The Media Research Center, a "conservative," right-wing organization that is the self professed "Leader in Documenting, Exposing, and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias." Gee, I wonder if they might just be a little biased themselves. I just love "organizations" that have delusions of grandeur, and demonstrate that by coming up with important sounding names so some people will take them seriously, and ignore their inherent biases, when in reality they are extremely biased, and don't actually amount to anything.

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#416201 - 04/14/09 04:19 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Dick Dastardly Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
My full-time job is based in the railroad industry. It's not cheap to maintain a railroad, usually $1mil per mile as the bare minimum (40mph track speed, welded rail), and more if you want higher speeds. Sgnalling (as opposed to "paper" authority) is more. Passenger rail usually gets the cat's ass in terms of funding, and they don't hold back on the all the frills. Unfortunately, I'm not a huge proponent of passenger rail, but it has it's merits.

The downside is that we should have taken Europe's excellent rail system as an example in the US, and masked off land for a dedicated rail system, decades ago. We are somewhat overpopulated & spread out to make it happen without some serious eminent domain issues these days.

Here in Fort Wayne, they held a local forum/symposium of sorts trying to get more people on the bandwagon for bringing passenger rail back to the area. It was relocated twice in the past 15 years, further & further north. Folks from the 225,000 population of Ft. Wayne now have to drive some 30 miles north to Waterloo, IN in order to catch a train to Chicago...or points east. Fort Wayne is solely a freight town now, despite it's size.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron

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#416202 - 04/17/09 10:26 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Gunker Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
A new commuter rail was just opened up (2/09) in the "West Side" of the Portland Metro Area, and already has a Wiki page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westside_Express_Service

I'll never use it because there's nothing in the "West Side" that I need to see...yo, but I'm still traumatized by driving on parallel highways to same way back when...way back when the traffic was nightmarish, and if I had a choice, I would go to trimet.com and organize a car-less, and less-stressful trip using this new-fangled train to get me closer to home...

_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.

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#416203 - 04/20/09 09:09 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Northrop Offline
Gay For Pay

Registered: 01/13/07
Posts: 1011
I don't know about the economics of the high speed Acela thing, but Amtrak actually makes money in the northeastern corridor. They've got a bunch of long routes all the way out west that no one ever takes. They don't ditch those because their's always some Congressmen who won't vote for the bill if they dump the route to his state.

If they made Amtrak private, they would ditch the western routes and be making serious money.

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#416204 - 04/20/09 10:59 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I don't know about the economics of the high speed Acela thing, but Amtrak actually makes money in the northeastern corridor. They've got a bunch of long routes all the way out west that no one ever takes. They don't ditch those because their's always some Congressmen who won't vote for the bill if they dump the route to his state.

If they made Amtrak private, they would ditch the western routes and be making serious money.




maybe they should spin of the USPO as well....

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#416205 - 04/21/09 06:13 AM Re: Amtrak investment
Wankus was my Daddy Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church
They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast. That actually might be worth the dollars. Also, out West; San Diego_LA_SFO_Portland_Seattle. This is a pipedream without the huge, huge commitment of dollars. Obama has been throwing all sorts of things out in the press to see if it sticks. Time will tell.
_________________________
"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS

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#416206 - 04/21/09 07:49 AM Re: Amtrak investment
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Quote:

They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast.




The Southern Crescent already does this. I've ridden it and recently tried to get tickets on it- never available. It only runs once a day. They could add more trains to this line and make some cash.

The problem with riding the train any distance is it takes the time of driving and costs the same as an airline ticket. I like the fact you are sitting in a barca-lounger and can get up and move around from car to car (esp. the lounge cars) but you have to work to ride the train.

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#416207 - 04/21/09 10:53 AM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:

They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast.




The Southern Crescent already does this. I've ridden it and recently tried to get tickets on it- never available. It only runs once a day. They could add more trains to this line and make some cash.

The problem with riding the train any distance is it takes the time of driving and costs the same as an airline ticket. I like the fact you are sitting in a barca-lounger and can get up and move around from car to car (esp. the lounge cars) but you have to work to ride the train.




there is where lies the joke.....we are using old tech and hoping that it will be faster then turboprop airplanes...not jet...but turboprop. So without massive reinvestment to show just how important this would be....

the idea will never gain speed....despite the huge costs needed I think it will pay off very well in and for future generations....republicans as well as some democrats dont like anything that is not here and NOW....

those fuckers have no vision at all.....

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#416208 - 04/21/09 11:03 AM Re: Amtrak investment
Dick Dastardly Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
Quote:

They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast. That actually might be worth the dollars.




This is an already over-utilized by Norfolk Southern's x-Southern mainline. I used to take trains over it to Hagerstown, MD when I still lived back in PA. NS won't allow the government to step in for such high-speed inprovements unless they're willing to upgrade the entire route to double-track, CTC running. As it is, many freights are good for 60mph on the old Southern B-Line from Manassas, VA (DC) to Atlanta, GA.

Acela (or Ass-hola) only runs between DC and Boston at this time. A good friend is/was a regional manager for the service, based out of Philadelphia.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron

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#416209 - 04/21/09 01:40 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Wankus was my Daddy Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 316
Loc: Outside Daddy's new Church
Quote:

Quote:

They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast. That actually might be worth the dollars.




This is an already over-utilized by Norfolk Southern's x-Southern mainline. I used to take trains over it to Hagerstown, MD when I still lived back in PA. NS won't allow the government to step in for such high-speed inprovements unless they're willing to upgrade the entire route to double-track, CTC running. As it is, many freights are good for 60mph on the old Southern B-Line from Manassas, VA (DC) to Atlanta, GA.

Acela (or Ass-hola) only runs between DC and Boston at this time. A good friend is/was a regional manager for the service, based out of Philadelphia.




Yup, forklift upgrade will be required for the NS freight trains to co-exist with a high speed passenger liner. They could run on the same geo path but will have to be two distinct entities. Thus the huge cost.
_________________________
"Quasarman. The only thing this idiot should be directing is french fries into a deep fryer." JS

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#416210 - 04/21/09 02:30 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

They want to replicate the Northeast corridor down south. New Orleans_Birmingham_Atlanta_Charlotte_DC to connnect with the Northeast. That actually might be worth the dollars.




This is an already over-utilized by Norfolk Southern's x-Southern mainline. I used to take trains over it to Hagerstown, MD when I still lived back in PA. NS won't allow the government to step in for such high-speed inprovements unless they're willing to upgrade the entire route to double-track, CTC running. As it is, many freights are good for 60mph on the old Southern B-Line from Manassas, VA (DC) to Atlanta, GA.

Acela (or Ass-hola) only runs between DC and Boston at this time. A good friend is/was a regional manager for the service, based out of Philadelphia.




Yup, forklift upgrade will be required for the NS freight trains to co-exist with a high speed passenger liner. They could run on the same geo path but will have to be two distinct entities. Thus the huge cost.




I think they are working on double lining the commuter rail in SOFL.

http://www.tri-rail.com/

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#416211 - 04/21/09 02:53 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Dick Dastardly Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
Quote:

http://www.tri-rail.com/




Tri-Rail is one of the fastest growing systems in the country. It's biggest holdup, like many projects, is trying to utilize over-capacity freight mainlines (that of CSXT and FEC) in the area. The company that owns my operation also owns the Florida East Coast (FEC), which is a shame, because they used to be a real class organization.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron

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#416212 - 04/21/09 03:47 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:

http://www.tri-rail.com/




Tri-Rail is one of the fastest growing systems in the country. It's biggest holdup, like many projects, is trying to utilize over-capacity freight mainlines (that of CSXT and FEC) in the area. The company that owns my operation also owns the Florida East Coast (FEC), which is a shame, because they used to be a real class organization.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Flagler

By 1905, Flagler decided that his Florida East Coast Railway should be extended from Biscayne Bay to Key West, a point 128 miles (206 km) past the end of the Florida peninsula. At the time, Key West was Florida's most populous city and it was also the United States' closest deep water port to the canal that the U.S. government proposed to build in Panama. Flagler wanted to take advantage of additional trade with Cuba and Latin America as well as the increased trade with the west that the Panama Canal would bring. In 1912, the Florida Overseas Railroad was completed to Key West. Over thirty years, Flagler had invested roughly fifty million dollars between railroad, home, and hotel construction, not to mention the aid he gave suffering farmers after the 1894 freeze. When asked about his philanthropic efforts by the President of Rollins College in Winter Park, Flagler is reported to have replied, "I believe this state is the easiest place for many men to gain a living. I do not believe any one else would develop it if I do not ... but I do hope to live long enough to prove I am a good business man by getting a dividend on my investment."[5]

I get tired of one lane shitty US Rt 1 to the Keys.....that would have been nice to use.....if it was still available.

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#416213 - 04/21/09 03:51 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Dick Dastardly Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
The sad part is that after decades of calling St. Augustine "home", the FEC (and owner RailAmerica, of Boca Raton) consolidated their offices to Jacksonville last year.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron

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#416214 - 04/21/09 04:00 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

The sad part is that after decades of calling St. Augustine "home", the FEC (and owner RailAmerica, of Boca Raton) consolidated their offices to Jacksonville last year.




oh what you mean is South Georgia...thats what all the locals call J'Ville!

also home of bands like Limp Bizkit, Lynyrd Skynyrd and The Allman Brothers Band.

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#416215 - 04/21/09 04:20 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Dick Dastardly Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 4470
And I think I recall hearing while down last October that Red Jumpsuit Apparatus & Yellowcard are also from Jax. They were playing some kind of local music festival.
_________________________
Because you already yelled 'dropping prices!!!' after Red Light canned you. - Gia Jordan to Brandon Iron

Top
#416216 - 04/21/09 04:59 PM Re: Amtrak investment
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

And I think I recall hearing while down last October that Red Jumpsuit Apparatus & Yellowcard are also from Jax. They were playing some kind of local music festival.




very nice!

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