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#414680 - 04/07/09 12:29 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I await Burg's opinion.
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#414681 - 04/07/09 12:29 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Sex Slave Trader
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 1342
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So it's a motorized wheelchair with a little more get up and go... Super.
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"Bornyo sleeps under a bearskin that he killed and skinned when he was 5. He just stared the thing dead with mind bullets." - Floofin
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#414682 - 04/07/09 12:45 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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What benefit is there to making it a 2 wheel Segway based chasis over a simple golfcart style electric vehicle?
Looks like a lot of extra expense and cost for no real benefit (in typical GM fashion). I suspect it is simply a public relations attempt to show the public that they really aren't the backwards, bankrupt (intellectually and financially), rusty, behemoth of a company that can't tell a good idea from a publicity stunt that everybody takes them for.
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--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414683 - 04/07/09 12:50 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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By biggest problem: Look at it! where could you park it where it would be even remotely safe as well as not being in the way?
Neither our roads or side walks are designed to accommodate shit like this. Don't bother designing it.
This has to be meant as an expensive toy, it couldn't possibly work as a real vehicle. Golf cart maybe...
Edited by conquistador (04/07/09 12:53 PM)
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#414685 - 04/07/09 12:58 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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If you want to see the future of automotives, check out: http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/I've had a deposit down for almost a year (back when it was only $1,000.00), but still have to wait more than a year before they start filling orders.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414686 - 04/07/09 01:03 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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That Karma is pretty neat. I'm not really into the way it looks (I would rather my cars look more like a tank than a bullet, but that's me) but all the specs sound awesome. If you ever get one please post some pictures.
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#414688 - 04/07/09 01:05 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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This is a typical liberal ploy. Design something so completely unrealistic, that hundreds of trillions of dollars have to be spent just to make it work. New roads, new rules, and a host of government bureaucrats to regulate all of the costly changes would be needed in order to make this pipe dream even seem feasible.
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#414690 - 04/07/09 01:15 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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*****That Karma is pretty neat. I'm not really into the way it looks (I would rather my cars look more like a tank than a bullet, but that's me) but all the specs sound awesome. If you ever get one please post some pictures.
I have to put it out of my mind in order not to get antsy since it is such a long wait since I first started looking into electric cars about 2 years ago and put down a deposit last summer. The designer Henrik Fisker was formerly the designer for Alfa Romeo and BMW and some people think it looks like some Alfa Romeo sports models. I think it looks like the Maserati Gran Tourismo.
BTW, I also have a Dodge Ram 1500 pickup. You gotta have options. I don't think I could rely only on a sports car for everything. But, for the daily commute to work and the optional solar panel recharger (instead of plugging into the outlet in the garage) it should do the job.
Edited by ohblah (04/07/09 01:17 PM)
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414693 - 04/07/09 01:41 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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WTF are you talking about TUP? The thing balances on two wheels!! It's a technological innovation. They've harnessed the power of the mighty gyroscope...
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#414694 - 04/07/09 01:45 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
This is a typical liberal ploy. Design something so completely unrealistic, that hundreds of trillions of dollars have to be spent just to make it work. New roads, new rules, and a host of government bureaucrats to regulate all of the costly changes would be needed in order to make this pipe dream even seem feasible.
OK, so I was a little facetious. This is actually just a ploy from the segway company to sell the all the segways no one wanted to buy in the first place. GM said "this looks like a good PR opportunity" and the alliance was born.
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#414696 - 04/07/09 02:05 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 2401
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I only saw the required deposits on the site, what is the actual cost of the Karma?
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"Guage once told me that there is nothing worse than eaten ass of a black dude thats been huffen drain cleaner the night befor." - delanoojos
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#414697 - 04/07/09 02:12 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 7599
Loc: a site known for its tolerance...
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GM should be working on cars that people will actually fucking buy.
_________________________
"I'll never forget the moment during the lovely Alyssa Allure's scene in 'American Bukkake' where the fellow got out of his wheel chair to ejaculate on her face. It was grotesque but had a certain frisson." -Sock
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#414698 - 04/07/09 02:19 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
I only saw the required deposits on the site, what is the actual cost of the Karma?
When I signed up, it was at the very early stages. Fisker had just broken off from the company that makes the Tesla electric car and wanted deposits to take to investors to show there was an interest. At that time the deposit was only $1,000 and the contract was for $80,000.00. Now, I think the deposit is $5,000. and I *THINK* the cost is up to $86,000. The convertible model carries a $25,000.00 deposit and I have no idea how much they cost.
I'm trying to learn how to add photos. Here is my attempt at the convertible model picture:
DAMMIT I tried, sorry.
Edited by ohblah (04/07/09 02:21 PM)
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414699 - 04/07/09 02:32 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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The car plugs into an electric outlet in the garage. Can run 50 miles on an electric charge, then seemlessly switches on the gas powered electrical generator to feed the electric drive (through the batteries not directly) with a range of about 500miles.
If you live less than 25 miles from your place of work, you can commute everyday without ever using a gallon of gas. If you drive more than 50miles round trip a day, you should expect more than 100miles/gallon when you need to use the gas.
They also sell solar panels to install on your garage so that you never plug into an outlet to charge it, unless weather doesn't allow a full charge by solar panel alone.
By the way, the "Q-drive" technology was developed for the military by Quantam technology to build an electric drive vehicle similar to the Hummer that is silent and has no emmissions or heat signiture. Pretty thoroughly tested platform that partnered with Fisker.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414703 - 04/07/09 03:12 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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I'm sorry but wouldn't we be burning oil and coal to make the electricity for these cars? A solar panel on the roof of your garage (for those who have one) is not going to be sufficient for everyday driving.
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#414704 - 04/07/09 03:46 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
I'm sorry but wouldn't we be burning oil and coal to make the electricity for these cars? A solar panel on the roof of your garage (for those who have one) is not going to be sufficient for everyday driving.
I disagree with your assumptions, but even if I did agree with them, I don't agree with the underlying point.
I suspect that you are assuming that the energy equivalent of one mile of driving on electricity provided by coal or gas burning steam generator plants is equivalent to (or worse than) the energy needed to drive one mile on gasoline. Due to economy of scale, the energy is a small fraction. Also, when you are not providing thrust from the electric engine, it does not idle, it turns off. This saves significant energy, thereby decreasing substantially the amount of energy needed to drive a given distance (especially in city traffic). But the underlying assumption that the amount of coal or natural gas needed to create the electrical energy to drive an electrical drive car one mile is similar to the amount of gas needed to drive one mile in a gasoline car.
In addition, there are no emissions from combustion; decreasing smog and imroving the local environment (nevermind getting into the fight over global warming--not my battle or interest). The quieter drive is also smoother and better handling than the torque providing gasoline vehicles. Gasoline combustion engines must run at very high RPM creating significant wasted heat energy and needing a transmission to decrease the RPM to useable speeds to turn the wheels. All of this is a waste of energy that electrical motors don't create.
Not only can solar panels very, very easily provide all of the energy you need to charge the Karma (no matter what part of the country you live in). If you splurge for the larger solar panels, and live in the right part of the country, you can sell back your excess power to the electric company and make enough power during the summer months to pay for your electricity use during the winter months and essentially provide power for your entire house for the entire year AND get a tax credit back at the end of the year.
More importantly than all of that, this is modern technology that works better, lasts longer, needs less maintenance, has less moving parts, is easier to maintain, and is better designed and built than anything comming out of Detroit or Japan.
To me, this car has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with being a tree-hugging environmentalist. It is solely about somebody building a better product earning my business.
Edited by ohblah (04/07/09 03:57 PM)
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414705 - 04/07/09 03:48 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Isn't this designed as a spare get around town kinda car like a moped? Total waste of money and resources. We already have mopeds and scooters. Otherwise, get your fat lazy asses on a bicycle or walk.
_________________________
"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#414707 - 04/07/09 04:54 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
Quote:
This is a typical liberal ploy.
Jesus H. Christ....
Once again good catch there eagle eyes.
Quote:
OK, so I was a little facetious.
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#414709 - 04/07/09 05:01 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Attachments
401566-nano-launch-2.jpg (4 downloads)
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#414710 - 04/07/09 05:06 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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#414712 - 04/07/09 05:37 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
It has safety tape on it.
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy
It'll need plenty more safety tape if it ever gets into even the slightest accident.
but conquistador it has......
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#414713 - 04/07/09 05:45 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
I disagree with your assumptions, but even if I did agree with them, I don't agree with the underlying point.
So you’re saying that I can get a 35 mile run off of one days charging from a solar cell on my roof? How large (square footage) would this solar cell have to be? How long does this thing take to fully charge?
Quote:
I suspect that you are assuming that the energy equivalent of one mile of driving on electricity provided by coal or gas burning steam generator plants is equivalent to (or worse than) the energy needed to drive one mile on gasoline. Due to economy of scale, the energy is a small fraction. Also, when you are not providing thrust from the electric engine, it does not idle, it turns off. This saves significant energy, thereby decreasing substantially the amount of energy needed to drive a given distance (especially in city traffic). But the underlying assumption that the amount of coal or natural gas needed to create the electrical energy to drive an electrical drive car one mile is similar to the amount of gas needed to drive one mile in a gasoline car.
Actually my assumption is that you can’t get a full charge in enough time from a solar cell array to be able to commute to work, on a daily basis, without resorting to plugging it in to the wall.
Quote:
In addition, there are no emissions from combustion; decreasing smog and imroving the local environment (nevermind getting into the fight over global warming--not my battle or interest). The quieter drive is also smoother and better handling than the torque providing gasoline vehicles. Gasoline combustion engines must run at very high RPM creating significant wasted heat energy and needing a transmission to decrease the RPM to useable speeds to turn the wheels. All of this is a waste of energy that electrical motors don't create.
As long as you’re plugging it in to the wall, you’re contributing to the pollution.
Quote:
Not only can solar panels very, very easily provide all of the energy you need to charge the Karma (no matter what part of the country you live in). If you splurge for the larger solar panels, and live in the right part of the country, you can sell back your excess power to the electric company and make enough power during the summer months to pay for your electricity use during the winter months and essentially provide power for your entire house for the entire year AND get a tax credit back at the end of the year.
Again how much array (square footage) do I need to get a full charge every day? And how long does it take to charge?
Quote:
More importantly than all of that, this is modern technology that works better, lasts longer, needs less maintenance, has less moving parts, is easier to maintain, and is better designed and built than anything comming out of Detroit or Japan.
Dude, get over it. It’s the same crappy segway they couldn’t sell before, they just put a wheely bar on it, and I thought this was a GM venture. You’re right I don’t want any more crap from Detroit.
Quote:
To me, this car has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with being a tree-hugging environmentalist. It is solely about somebody building a better product earning my business.
Yeah a better product that won’t even get you to work everyday.
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#414714 - 04/07/09 06:08 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Sorry, I am writing about the Fisker Karma, not the Segway based GM publicity stunt.
There is absolutely no chance in hell I would ever get involved in one of those clip and paste edit internet arguments. You just have the wrong guy here. I have to admit I stopped reading your post after a couple of sentences. If there is a legitimate question there, and I am able to help you with the answer, I apologize, let me know.
If you think I am incorrect and I don't know what I'm talking about, that is fine with me. If you feel like you know more about this than I do, that's just peachy too. Who knows maybe you do know more about this than me after all, I can live with that.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414715 - 04/07/09 06:10 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
If you think I am incorrect and I don't know what I'm talking about, that is fine with me. If you feel like you know more about this than I do, that's just peachy too. Who knows maybe you do know more about this than me after all, I can live with that.
Oblah = Stewart Smalley
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#414719 - 04/07/09 06:20 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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Quote:
Sorry, I am writing about the Fisker Karma, not the Segway based GM publicity stunt.
I was responding to this post:
Quote:
A guy I work with has an electric car. He talked the CEO into supplying extra outlets and even an industrial extension cord by the parking lot at work and he even got his own space (sort of). In return the company got a tax break and publicity that they support electric cars.
I bet most apartment complexes have outlets around the building (for lawn maintenance, etc) and even if they don't, they may be willing to allow use of an outlet near the office or may even be talked into installing an outlet for you if you go straight to the owner (not the minimum wage office manager).
I just assumed that's where our conversation started from.
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#414720 - 04/07/09 06:37 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I'm sure your boyfriend appreciates your little love gesture cumming to his defense like that.
Damn. Already? This is gonna be fun.
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#414721 - 04/07/09 06:42 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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I have two 100W solar panels on my RV, they are about 57 x 21 inches. On a sunny day, I am happy to see 11A @ 14.5V or so, around 160W. I have two 110 amp-hour batteries, and I am able to keep enough charge to watch about 5 hours of satellite TV and run lights with a good day's charge.
Optimally, you can get 1000W per square meter of solar, that's with peak performance. Chevy Volt has 16 kWh of battery capacity. With 50% efficiency for 8 hours, that means you will need to charge at an average rate of 2kW, so you would need 4 square meters of panels. That's a lot. Also, you would need to store this solar produced energy during the day, and charge at night, I would think, so you would need a second battery array and associated electronics for charging, both from the solar to the storage batteries, and from the storage batteries to the car.
Solar is expensive, I spent almost $1k on my little 200W system, and I did the work myself. Most of the cost is in the cells, so a system that would charge even a 40-mile car like the Volt would cost several thousand dollars, and you would need the real estate for the panels. But, other than battery replacement, it should last virtually forever.
Nuclear power plants, man, that's what we need. Store the waste in Pittsburgh.
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy
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#414722 - 04/07/09 06:59 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
I have two 100W solar panels on my RV, they are about 57 x 21 inches. On a sunny day, I am happy to see 11A @ 14.5V or so, around 160W. I have two 110 amp-hour batteries, and I am able to keep enough charge to watch about 5 hours of satellite TV and run lights with a good day's charge.
Optimally, you can get 1000W per square meter of solar, that's with peak performance. Chevy Volt has 16 kWh of battery capacity. With 50% efficiency for 8 hours, that means you will need to charge at an average rate of 2kW, so you would need 4 square meters of panels. That's a lot. Also, you would need to store this solar produced energy during the day, and charge at night, I would think, so you would need a second battery array and associated electronics for charging, both from the solar to the storage batteries, and from the storage batteries to the car.
Solar is expensive, I spent almost $1k on my little 200W system, and I did the work myself. Most of the cost is in the cells, so a system that would charge even a 40-mile car like the Volt would cost several thousand dollars, and you would need the real estate for the panels. But, other than battery replacement, it should last virtually forever.
Nuclear power plants, man, that's what we need. Store the waste in Pittsburgh.
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy
I agree nuclear power is the way to go currently. But the only way to see steady improvement in wind, water, tidal, and solar power sources is to employ them in the early stages and work out the kinks.
The solar power panels on your RV are not the same strength and weight of what a person should install on their house. A good google search for several companies will give you the recommended size type and number of solar power panels based on your location in the USA to meet your needs.
It has been about 2 years since I looked into adding solar panels to the house, and I don't have the figures with me, but the efficiency of solar power panels continues to improve.
You could get a battery array if you wanted to stay "off the grid". Or you could connect directly into your incoming power supply and get a credit from the power company if you produce more power than you consume or simply reduce the power consumption during the day. Since most people are at work during the day, using proper (i.e. solar panels made for structures, not RVs) solar panels can usually offset the power consumed by an empty house.
But if you are considering 4 square meters to be large, I can tell you that you and I are in completely different ballparks when we are talking about square footage to be used for solar power.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414723 - 04/07/09 07:17 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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I disagree on a couple technical points, as I've researched this and have a couple electronics degrees. The bottom line is that solar requires a big initial investment, and is not reliable. The only reason I did it on the RV is so I can stay in quiet, natural areas off the grid. I have a good place on my house to mount panels, but when I start to cost things out, it is way expensive. I've not looked for a couple years, and the newer gel cell batteries may be a possibility. Maybe I'll play around and run my Ham station off solar. We need to decide what we are going to do. If we are going solar/wind/etc. then you are right, we need to get started. Me, I'll just ride my 50 MPG motorcycle on sunny days, instead of an electric car.  -Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy
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#414724 - 04/07/09 07:32 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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just as in everything.....cost and improvments of solar will come down over the years...decades...especally if people put it on the front line.
microchips and computers used to be very expensive and large....and look at what we have now.
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#414725 - 04/07/09 07:44 PM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-whe
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
I disagree on a couple technical points, as I've researched this and have a couple electronics degrees. The bottom line is that solar requires a big initial investment, and is not reliable. The only reason I did it on the RV is so I can stay in quiet, natural areas off the grid. I have a good place on my house to mount panels, but when I start to cost things out, it is way expensive. I've not looked for a couple years, and the newer gel cell batteries may be a possibility. Maybe I'll play around and run my Ham station off solar.
We need to decide what we are going to do. If we are going solar/wind/etc. then you are right, we need to get started. Me, I'll just ride my 50 MPG motorcycle on sunny days, instead of an electric car.
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy
I don't think it is a good idea to put all our eggs in one basket, nor CAN we really do that. The places that are suitable for solar farm sites are probably not good places for windmills, and tidal power is obviously limited to very specific sites. I think we should push *EVERY* avenue.
Yes, technology is expensive. Yes, solar power is expensive. If a person lives in a part of the country that has very few sunny days a year, it probably isn't right for them.
I am going to stick my neck out right now and say that GM will either drop the Volt outright or change it to a mere shadow of it's proposed self. Maybe they'll turn it into a hybrid. Unless there are huge changes to the board of directors and management, they don't want to go all electric.
They'd rather fart around with these PR moves like the Segway stunt. They have been talking about the Volt for years.
In *LESS* time that GM has been talking about developing the Volt, Fisker designed a car from scratch, got investors together, built a manufactoring plant, produced a prototype, developed a distribution network of car dealers, and started to produce the Karma which will be on the road next year.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#414727 - 04/08/09 05:57 AM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
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WTF! Do you sell them or something?
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#414728 - 04/08/09 08:13 AM
Re: GM and Segway working on new balancing two-wheeler
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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While I'm sure you knew all along I was talking about the Karma, some people got confused. I thought pictures would help.
Hmmm, I'll sell you one though.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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