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#391297 - 08/22/10 02:34 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
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Chuck, you don't have to pretend here. You're amongst friends. Just let it out. We understand.
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#391298 - 08/22/10 02:38 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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@
Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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Quote:
Thanks.
Last night, I heard a woman from Cincinnati who got sober in 1991 share her story. She dropped out of high school, was minimum wage, didn't have a clue with men, family disowned her, on and on. Today, she is happily married and pursuing her Ph.D., and she has travelled quite a bit. She helped both her parents a great deal in their last days. I know her from a few years ago, good to see her doing well, we chatted a short while.
while you were chatting with her did you fantasize about throat fucking her?. did you imagine her UP SIDE DOWN!?.
_________________________
i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#391299 - 08/22/10 03:14 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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I am certain there are no niggers allowed in AA. I'm dead certain.
Chuck why don't y'all allow niggers into AA?
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#391300 - 08/22/10 03:15 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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^^^Dayum. That's fucked up.
What would the Kingfish say to that?
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#391301 - 08/22/10 04:26 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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#391302 - 08/22/10 04:33 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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Quote:
Every man a King?
They tried that during reconstruction. The results were both hilarious and disastrous.
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#391303 - 08/22/10 04:43 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Toward the end of his life General Grant came to the excellent conclusion that the former Confederate states would have benefitted from twenty years of military rule. Would have avoided the twin evils of carpetbagger/scalawag dominated regimes and the white supremacist regimes that replaced them.
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#391304 - 08/22/10 04:46 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I was thinking of Amos & Andy.  The guy who posts under that account would be acceptable as well.
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#391305 - 08/22/10 04:49 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Toward the end of his life General Grant came to the excellent conclusion that the former Confederate states would have benefitted from twenty years of military rule. Would have avoided the twin evils of carpetbagger/scalawag dominated regimes and the white supremacist regimes that replaced them.
A dozen years of military rule is what created those things in the first place. Funny, though: For a minute there, you sounded like Paul Bremmer.
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#391306 - 08/22/10 05:10 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Very strained Bremer analogy since Iraq is a distant foreign country with which we have little in common. Some might say that about the south, but I tend to be more optimistic.  Factually, military rule in the south gave way soon enough to readmission with respect to most of the states of the former Confederacy. With respect to the bigger picture, the fact that freedmen were denied land (General Sherman's 40 acres and a mule policy was quickly rescinded by then-President Andrew Johnson) probably prevented the development of a Black southern yeomanry that might have led to better results.
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#391307 - 08/22/10 05:19 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Balls. They were all in it for a buck. That's why they had to off Lincoln before there really was malice towards none, and charity for all.
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#391309 - 08/22/10 05:33 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Cute responses, but not much substance. Teh intrawebs are no substitute for books. Think I will read awhile. Keep the party going.
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#391310 - 08/22/10 05:43 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Pervert
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 2058
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yesterday i helped a buddy move in the blazing heat, at the end of which we sucked downa few ice cold Dos Equis. my god did they go down smooth (salvation has many faces).
even though i used to be an alcoholic i stopped halfway through the third when i wasn't thirsty anymore, reminding us once again it doesn't have to turn into a thing where you're pissing yourself or eating your next dinner from a garbage pail.
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#391311 - 08/22/10 05:50 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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#391312 - 08/22/10 06:49 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Quote:
Thanks.
Last night, I heard a woman from Cincinnati who got sober in 1991 share her story. She dropped out of high school, was minimum wage, didn't have a clue with men, family disowned her, on and on. Today, she is happily married and pursuing her Ph.D., and she has travelled quite a bit. She helped both her parents a great deal in their last days. I know her from a few years ago, good to see her doing well, we chatted a short while.
What that has to do with booze/drugs, I've no idea but I want to know why a girl with everything going for her now would want to talk to you. Did she look around the room for help when you started going on about your ham radio? Did you ask her out? "I'll pick you up and we'll go to my house. Actually, it's the same thing. Hard to explain."
_________________________
"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#391313 - 08/22/10 06:55 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I want to know why a girl with everything going for her now would want to talk to you.
[/thread]
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#391315 - 08/22/10 07:13 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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She sounds like a dishwasher.
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#391317 - 08/22/10 09:01 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 3509
Loc: Pit of Despair
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Alot of women in AA and NA are big whores. People in recovery fill the void of sobriety with caffeine, nicotine and sex. Woman in the program have a tendency to work their way through the regular male attendees in their meetings. This is just charin's turn. She'll move on.
_________________________
Fap, Fap, Fap
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#391318 - 08/23/10 08:10 AM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 51
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Quote:
reminding us once again it doesn't have to turn into a thing
AA folk think if they open a beer, it'll be like opening the box in Hellraiser. Pinhead is going to pop out and say CHOOSE YOUR FATE, and they'll wake up 37 hours later in a dumpster, bleeding from a usable orifice or two.
You know Old Harvey ain't ever needed no 12-step program. The first step would always be them telling me how to live my life, and the next 11 steps would be my feet on their face and tit. HOP-SHUFFLE-STEP. HOP-SHUFFLE-STEP. I did once bang someone in a 12-step, though, which makes me infinitely qualified to make fun of it.
AA ain't nothing but another DRUG. Some people are hooked on meth. Some people are hooked on dirty martinis. Them bitches are hooked on healin'. I've got a tip for ya. If you don't feel like you can muster the self-control to live life for two weeks without attending a meeting, you're STILL A FUCKIN' ADDICT. Different day, different drug.
You can forget all that bullshit. If you wanna join up with that shit, might as well go all out and sign up for one of them cults where you castrate yourself and let the leader bang your wife and daughter, because, well he plays Guitar.
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#391319 - 08/23/10 12:56 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Among many other things, alcoholics seem to react to alcohol intake by becoming aggressive and/or otherwise behaving in a manner that leads them to trouble, as opposed to just getting mellow or happy when drinking. IMO whatever they do to promote their recovery ought to be lauded. I can't claim first hand experience and can't imagine claiming any expertise to provide advice or counsel to a support network that has their track record of success.
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#391320 - 08/23/10 05:15 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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What "track record of success" are you talking about? AA is notoriously quiet about their success rate.
The same number of alcoholics who get sober through AA get sober on their own.
There is a ton of info about this out there but here is one link.
Not saying you shouldn't use AA if you feel the program works.
Also, I can't see why any rational person would get involved with a program that involved a "higher power" or any other kind of supernatural forces to help stay sober.
Chuck has addressed that your higher power can be pretty much anything but it's still a ridiculous concept to think your sobriety has anything to do with any power other than yourself.
Some good sources on this page as well.
Also, despite being obviously biased: This episode of Bullshit! is pretty interesting.
_________________________
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#391321 - 08/23/10 05:24 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
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Given the difficult nature of the problem of alcoholism, use of success rate as a criteria seems to stack the deck against the program. The higher power concept seems to be elastic enough these days, and those who regard themselves as being in total control without need of anything outside of higher than than individual powers are likely to encounter some rude surprises on the road of life.
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#391322 - 08/23/10 05:34 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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Believe in whatever supernatural forces you like.
My point was that the claim that AA has a high success rate is dubious. High success rate in comparison to what?
If you aren't comparing AA to anything else keeping 1 person sober for 1 day would be a pretty high number compared to 0.
Again, AA works for some people but there is no evidence of any kind of long term success in the program.
Considering that few people stay in the program even after a year after they started going...
If you are interested in an alcohol treatment that you can actually study check out a medicine called Baclofen.
When AA starts publishing numbers that can be backed up by independent research they will stop sounding like a religious organization who sells books and tokens.
Edited by conquistador (08/23/10 05:39 PM)
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#391324 - 08/23/10 05:53 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 9782
Loc: Hillbilly Holler
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I always thought of it as lifestyle that helps one stay sober. [most of the time ]
_________________________
I may not know arse but I know what I like !
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#391327 - 08/23/10 06:24 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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Anonymity is no reason not to publish things like anonymous surveys. You know those comment cards at restaurants? Even something like that would be better than nothing.
You notice AA doesn't bother trying to prove the program works. If it's such a great program why aren't they trumpeting how successful it is?
I realize you have bought into the dogma but AA doesn't stand up to any skepticism.
"This program works"
"show me please how well it works?"
"Nevermind that. It just works."
There are a ton of things in the world that operate with that mindset. They are called scams/snake oil/religion.
"Buy my moose diarrhea, it is an amazing hair tonic! Also it will make you young again."
"Looks like diarrhea to me."
"No, really, trust me, it works"
"How does it work? Why does it work?"
"It just works. End of story."
Blind faith isn't proof that anything works.
Edited by conquistador (08/23/10 06:31 PM)
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#391328 - 08/23/10 06:42 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 3509
Loc: Pit of Despair
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AA and NA appeal to people who are lemmings and need/crave a sense of "belonging". I went to meetings of both groups and found it all creepy. The hand holding, the hugs, the prayers and the constant repetition of catch phrases was something like a cross between a cult and a pyramid scheme seminar.
_________________________
Fap, Fap, Fap
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#391329 - 08/23/10 06:47 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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You can join our fellowship and take over the service task of tracking these autonomous groups of anonymous drunks if you want. But, it sounds like you don't want what we have. That's OK, too.
We do a survey every few years, and publish a pamphlet about it. There's some numbers in the conference Final Report. I don't know them off the top of my head.
What can be done is a decent estimate of our numbers in the US and Canada. Professionals estimate one in 10 people are alcoholic? I don't know, that's what I recall from years ago. From that and population data, I think I extrapolated the percentage of alcoholics sober in AA. That doesn't say anything about how many have tried AA, and there are huge error bars on all this stuff, but AA does work very well for large numbers of us. About 2 million or so in the US and Canada? I dunno, maybe I'll dig something up Thursday.
One thing our survey shows is a large percentage, I seem to recall over half, have also had professional counseling or treatment. I think it was 8 years ago I took a hard look at some statistics extrapolated from the survey, and it clearly shows if you make one year, you have a good chance at long term sobriety. I also recall being in the middle of a lot of the stats - sober 12 years, go to 2-3 meetings a week, 40's, male, some college (I didn't have my 4 year degree then).
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#391330 - 08/23/10 06:48 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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Quote:
Anonymity is no reason not to publish things like anonymous surveys.
You notice AA doesn't bother trying to prove the program works. If it's such a great program why aren't they trumpeting how successful it is?
I realize you have bought into the dogma but AA doesn't stand up to any skepticism.
"This program works"
"show me please how well it works?"
"Nevermind that. It just works."
There are a ton of things in the world that operate with that mindset. They are called scams/snake oil/religion.
"Buy my moose diarrhea, it is an amazing hair tonic!"
"Looks like diarrhea to me."
"No, really, trust me, it works"
"How does it work? Why does it work?"
"It just works. End of story."
Blind faith isn't proof that anything works.
The only people who believe AA "works" are, coincidentally enough, the same people who say things like "success rates are hard to define or measure".
I think I posted once before that there are many studies that have shown that AA is neither the only structured program to help alcoholics nor is it anywhere close to being one of the more successful ones. It usually ranks right up there with doing nothing at all, and outside of the U.S. it is almost universally derided as an ineffectual cult rather than a treatment strategy.
I know I am just repeating what Conq has already alluded to, but the point I'm trying to make is that it is more than just about "dubious" claims or first hand reports from people or television shows debunking the myth, it is a well studied, investigated and documented fact.
_________________________
--Some of us look for The Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
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#391333 - 08/23/10 07:00 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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If you end up digging up numbers I would like to see them.
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#391334 - 08/23/10 07:06 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Human Garbage
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 1541
Loc: Mississippi
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#391335 - 08/23/10 07:14 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Gag Factor Guru
Porn Jesus
Registered: 07/15/05
Posts: 5290
Loc: Dayton
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1,264,716 members in the US is the very conservative estimate from my link.
The latest, best study of population data is from 1994, the percentage is 7.4% of the population is alcoholic.
There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US.
300,000,000 times 7.4% = 22,200,000 alcoholics in the US.
We are 1,264,716 / 22,200,000 = about 5.7% of alcoholics sober in AA, or better than one in twenty. And, again, that's a very conservative estimate.
I have no way to estimate how many have tried, or how many are sober outside AA.
[Sasha Grey]You have ways, but haven't availed yourself of them[/SG]
Edited by charin (08/23/10 07:16 PM)
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#391338 - 08/23/10 07:22 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
That's hilarious!
Every few years, like clockwork, since the early 40's, the scientific community has released a new wonder drug to cure drunks. We've been laughing it off for 60 years now. It's about time, stay tuned.
Anti-Science. If it walks like a duck...
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#391340 - 08/23/10 07:29 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yet you're prepared to throw science under the bus where it contradicts your faith.
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#391342 - 08/23/10 07:34 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/27/07
Posts: 4795
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I don't get this either. If it's a medicine like baclofen to treat addiction or maybe ibogaine it's automatically worthless in your eyes just because you use a different approach?
AA guys can't just be happy for people trying to clean up their lives?
Remember how we have been talking about bigotry?
AA has been around for many years and there has been adequate time for people to study and form informed opinions about it.
It makes sense to be skeptical of something that has been around for a long time yet remains unproven the same way it makes sense to be skeptical of promising new approach (drug).
The drug is going to end up with peer reviewed studies in time that will prove or disprove it's effectiveness.
Edited by conquistador (08/23/10 07:41 PM)
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#391344 - 08/23/10 07:38 PM
Re: Thurs. Step Meeting
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
AA guys can't just be happy for people trying to clean up their lives?
"There is no God but Bill W. Chuck is his prophet."
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