Damn... I was hoping someone would mention whipits.
Just so you knew the circle was like THAT.

Good post Chuck... Very emotional and the "we" is a play on the religion of it all. As it should be since you seem to pass the plate and make donations. Good for you (them).

I saw a whippet today wearing a sweater, you mean those little greyhound looking dogs, right?

Our expenses are a monthly donation to the church for our meeting space ($75), coffee, some literature, that's about it. We each throw a dollar or two in the basket if we want to. We never keep more than about $100 in our treasury. It really isn't a big deal at all.

No religion. If religion fixed drunks, there would be no need for AA.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

You say steps and most call em commandments. I'd trust your faith over most preachers and priests. The fact that you roll day to day is no more or less of a sign of wavering faith. And that's exactly what keeps the masses coming and going every Sunday.

The root word of commandment is command. We suggest.

Faith is belief in something unseen. I've seen that if I work AA, I stay sober. I've also seen in others that if I don't, I won't. That's a fact of life for Chuck.

I wish I could force newcomers to get this stuff. I've been to two meetings in as many days, where this was discussed. Every one of us have several stories of people we've worked with who went back out and met an untimely demise. But all we can do is share our experiences and help them if they are willing, we can't give them the willingness. I wish you were right, Lou, I wish we could be as prolific and evangelical as churches. But there must be some little bit of us in you, Lou, because we drunks are just as skeptical as you, just as fast to run like hell away from anything that would control us, anything that would set off our hypersensitive bullshit detectors. That's why it is like it is, all we can do is suggest, and share our stories, and help when we are asked.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Hey Chuck- flesh out the story about the burned boat and campground. I want to hear all the details.

Is there a thread where charin explains how much he used to drink, and what he used to drink? I kinda feel like am missing something here.

My story is attached. It ain't pretty.

Of course, it isn't about what we drank or how much, but what it did to our lives. And whether it's a thimble or a barrel, full is full.

But, because you asked -

As a kid, anything I could get my hands on. Usually, stolen beer because we could get it, my friend was a grocery clerk. I'd also sneak into my dad's Seagram's 7 bottle. I drank a fifth of vodka by myself, I found it. Drank a fifth of Boone's Farm once, it didn't even give me much of a buzz.

In the service initially, I drank a ton of beer. Sometimes, I would drink brown liquor, but it got me too drunk too quickly. I was a daily drinker, and I drank a lot of Pearl and Lone Star when I was in Texas.

Later in Okinawa, I tried some Suntory (did I spell that right?) and liked it a lot, and Japanese beer is also excellent, but mostly I did my daily drinking (8-12 beers) of American beer. Also, Okinawa was where I developed a taste for scotch. Funny, saki makes me break out in a rash on my inner thighs near my scrotum. Every time, and the only time I've ever had the rash.

Panama, I drank seco. What the fuck is seco? If you order rum in a Panamanian bar (at least places like the Ancon) you will get seco, a local rum like booze made from mangos or some shit, that is more like vodka than rum. I knew it, and ordered it, and they called me "Seco and Coke", that was my nickname in the whore bars. I'd drink a lot of beer on base. Of course, I smoked a barn full of pot in Panama. I remember early in Panama, sitting at the little bar down the street from the Ancon, me and this MP polished off a gallon of Johnny Walker over the bar.

Back to Bragg (N.C.), back to a lot of American beer and more liquor. I had developed a taste for booze. One nickname I had there was "half a gallon" because I would buy a half gallon of something good like Canadian Mist. I also started a tradition of always getting a fifth of Tequila for laundry day. I got to play around with stuff like Everclear, and got a DUI after killing most of a bottle of 151. Wild Turkey, Yukon Jack (much better than Southern Comfort), VO, stuff like that.

After I got out and started school, I was poor, and discovered and embraced the world of fortified wines. MD 20-20, and Richard's Wild Irish Rose. But something else I really liked was the Long Island Iced Tea they sold in the convenience stores. There in Fayetteville is where I got the craters in the crooks of my arms, from giving plasma so I could buy wine.

Back to Ohio, after I got going well in my job, oceans of beer and lots of brown liquor, Tonya drank the vodka sold in convenience stores, so I had my share of that, too. Of course, alcoholism is progressive, so I drank more and more as the years wore on.

I drank a lot of Busch, and a lot of Bud with one girlfriend (Tony). Later, I used to drink a lot of Little Kings in a can (?!) yes, they come that way, and are much cheaper and just as potent. One store the clerks would just grab a six out of the cooler as soon as I came through the door, which was several times a week. Some of the malt liquors I liked were Schlitz, Colt .45 (early), and yes, Old English 800 (is it 800?). Did I mention Jack?

Again, I was a daily drinker, and a frequent blackout drinker.

I only drank for 15 years, and I didn't have a hollow leg or anything. But I drank enough to get me to AA.

I am still fascinated by it. I went to the stock broker's office with my credentials to claim my inheritance, and the lady there said I could have my quarter million after she did about 20 minutes of paperwork. I decided to take a walk in the shopping center there, and there wasn't much around but Arrow Wine. I thought no big deal, I'll look at cigars and curios, but I forgot Ohio did away with state liquor stores and now places like this were liquor stores. I was face to face with all my old friends, waiting to inherit this money. I had a decision to make, to make love with these old friends for a few years, or to continue with sobriety. Of course, I chose not to put any of the wonderful delights inside me that day. But I was mesmerized. There was the Seagram's 7 that took so many years of my dad's life, that I used to steal as a child. A new Canadian Mist bottle, I liked the old one. A half gallon of Jack Daniels, that'll work! Chevas was alway pretty. Beam - yuck. Then I turned around and saw the Johnny Walker and the other scotches, and I could taste it, in a glass with one ice cube. And the rum, Jesus, the rum. I turned the corner and there was a half aisle of Tequila! Everyone has a tequila story! They even had the little airplane one shot bottles, I thought the AA's were right, one of those little bottles would be too much, but the whole inventory wouldn't be enough. Then I spotted a young yuppie looking bitch looking at the fru-fru wines, and I thought that woman has no idea the special relationship I have with the items in this store.

Favorites:
Import - Jesus, I forgot the name of the Filipino beer. The kind you get overseas sucks, but the kind they send here is very good.
Mist
Dewar's

Nothing too fancy, we alcoholics drink primarily for effect.

I could go on forever. Thanks for asking.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Chuck, thank you for posting that.

If you've never read "The Lost Weekend" by Charles Jackson I think you would would enjoy it.

Is this the beer ?

Yeah, once more, a new bottle. I liked the old one.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Hey Chuck thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed reading that, but gutted about Tonya dying. I'm always real curious about people's story. I'd never have guessed your story started so early.

When is Bree's Chair Leg going to report on a Thursday Step Stool Meeting?

It's a beautiful night in Dayton. There were 14 experienced AA members at our meeting tonight. Tim H., a regular member from years ago, got a 20 year anniversary token.

Step two - Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

This is my favorite step.

Our chairperson opened by talking about how the literature clearly states we don't have to believe in anything, that the steps are suggestions. He spoke of how we have a large hoop to jump through here, and can make it with room to spare, if we have willingness and are open minded. This fact that AA is open to people of all beliefs, or none at all, was appreciated by many of our members. The first person to talk hit me where I am now, she discussed how it is a challenge to bring this step to bear on problems other than alcohol. I realize in some things, I am not willing to be restored to sanity.

It was pointed out, however, that Bill W. was speaking of the insanity, the peculiar mental twists, that come before an alcoholic takes that first drink, knowing what the consequences will surely be. And some believe the steps were divinely inspired, and the fact that Bill wrote the steps, and the Big Book, when he was only sober a relatively short time, bears witness to it. I dunno about that, but like Ed, a big part of step two for me, in the beginning and now, is the knowledge that the AA program works.

Ed is atheist, and this is his daily faith, that he is alcoholic, AA works, and he wants to stay sober today. Many others, perhaps the majority of AA's, have a personal belief in a Higher Power, who we call God, that is not defined by any religion, a generic belief in something bigger than us all. We talked about Don S., a departed member who was a Marinist Brother in the Catholic church, and we talked about some other long time members who have went to the big meeting in the sky. I spoke of the old days when Tim and others would go to Frisch's restaurant after the meeting for a snack, and how seeing other drunks my age, not full of shit, and sober and enjoying life, made step two so much easier for me.

Lou O. had the best story. He is one of the 4 members there tonight with over 30 years of continuous sobriety. He said he has , a dachshund with a bladder problem, who drinks about a gallon and a half of water a day, and spreads it on his lawn. The grass is dead in spots, so this being spring, Lou got some grass seed and dug a little and seeded the bare areas. It has rained heavily early this week, and Lou said nothing was happening with the grass seed. He was angry at the rain, wishing it would stop, so he could properly water the newly planted grass seed! Then he got it, sat back and saw the little seeds start to sprout in the last day or so, as the weather has warmed and nature's rain has done a proper job of watering. So it is with step two for us experienced AA's, George says he has came to the conclusion that there is a lot more coming to to come to.

If you want to find a reason to drink, you will. If you want to find a way to stay sober, step two is open for you, you can make it work.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

This brings us full circle on the steps. I hope you have enjoyed hearing about our little Ohio AA Group. It is a bit different, but aren't they all? There are many different kinds of meetings, speaker meetings where one AA tells their story, discussion meetings where a topic, or topics, are discussed, step meetings like mine, beginner's meetings. Big and small meetings, meetings with all types of people. Men's and Women's meetings, gay meetings. If you want to stay sober, it is important that you look around until you find a Home Group, in addition to going to a variety of meetings.

I am a step head. I think the steps are the heart of the program, this is what worked for me. Ultimately, all us AA's can do is share our own experience, I hope that's what I've done.

Let me close by saying if you are enjoying what you are doing, more power to you. That's what life is all about. We do not crusade. But if you want to quit and can't, give us a fair chance. Find a Home Group, a sponsor, and work these steps. And keep this knowledge, it might come in handy in 10 years, 1000 miles from where we are now, for yourself, or someone close to you.

I'll keep looking here and reply if appropriate, or if I hear any more good jokes. Thanks for letting me share.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Thanks for sharing Chuck. I enjoy the window into your life.

Agreed, good stuff Chuck. Thanks and good for you.

Chuck, thanks for all the info and the shared experience. I'll read this thread again in the future.


ohblah

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Do you ever discuss the other programs(mostly in Europe) that advocate teaching alcoholics to learn how to drink socially?

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For people with an alcohol addiction, there's no such thing as 'socially drinking'. (If 'socially drinking' does exist at all!)

Our Big Book tries to drive home the point that after the first drink, the alcoholic is out of control.

I read about a controlled drinking program for alcoholics in 1981. I attempted it for the next 9 years. Didn't work.

From our Big Book, titled Alcoholics Anonymous, page 30:

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The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

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Welcome to my world.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Big Book, pg. 84-85

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And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

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I go to meetings because I enjoy them, the principles we discuss enhance my life, and it provides maintenance like brushing my teeth or changing oil in the car.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Hey Charin, do you still attend meetings? Do you have a sponsor? Are you someone's sponsor?

Yes, yes, no.

Our Group has a reputation for being a bit hard-core. I mean, we expect folks to read a chapter in the 12x12 before the meeting, usually supply 4 or so people for intergroup and General Service work, discuss a tradition once a month, and we let the meeting run past one hour. All these things are exceptional.

I guess I am a bit of a hard-core AA myself. I have only had this one group as a home group my whole time, I look at everything through the lens of the steps, I have an ex-Marine sponsor who is a past delegate, and I tend to tell newcomers you need to build a new life, and attack the program and the steps with all the desperation of the dying. I've seen lately a more relaxed approach is better with many, and I offer today's Daily Reflections meditation as example.

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We trust that we already know what our several freedoms truly are; that no future generation of AA’s will ever feel compelled to limit them. Our AA freedoms create the soil in which genuine love can grow. . . . LANGUAGE OF THE HEART, p. 303

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I craved freedom. First, freedom to drink; later, freedom from drink. The A.A. program of recovery rests on a foundation of free choice. There are no mandates, laws or commandments. A.A.’s spiritual program, as outlined in the Twelve Steps, and by which I am offered even greater freedoms, is only suggested. I can take it or leave it. Sponsorship is offered, not forced, and I come and go as I will. It is these and other freedoms that allow me to recapture the dignity that was crushed by the burden of drink, and which is so dearly needed to support an enduring sobriety.

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Hank has set a good example by being there when I need to work on things, and giving me freedom when I want. I will still work the program my way, our group will remain the haven for those who are serious step nazis, there is a tool for every nut. But, please don't take this thread as the end all and be all of how AA is. It's just one guy from one group in Ohio.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Chuck, do I have to find and/or understand God first, in order for AA/NA/OA to work for me?

No, it works the other way around. The program helps us come to terms with our spirituality, on our own terms. In my case, instead of "choosing" a Higher Power, I explored my beliefs as honestly as I could and let my perception develop. It is still changing.

There was is excellent book written by Ernie Katz, I think I have the author right, titled Not God. He did an non-alcoholics history of our fellowship, and took the title from the principle that the most important thing we alcoholics need to realize is we are not God. That seems simple and obvious, but a big step for some of us.

Would you like to be my sponsor? If you say "No", I'll understand. I can be a real fucking pain in the ass. JK.

Maybe you should look at this thread.

Baby cakes is there any way you can water that one down for me?.

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From the Los Angeles Central Office Web Site :
If you would like information about Alcoholics Anonymous, or about AA meetings in the greater Los Angeles area, please telephone (800) 923-8722.

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I went to a meeting tonight. There are lots of meetings where you are, go to some and ask for some help. Get a copy of the books "Alcoholics Anonymous" (the Big Book) and "Living Sober" and make sure you get a meeting schedule. You'll catch on from there, if you want to.

I saw that. You could have just told me "god bless your troubled little soul, but you bug like a motherfucker and I have no interest in continuing any of this with you." even a simple "fuck off", would have been fine. I'm interested in meetings like I'm interested in school. I want a sponsor like I want to meet my mom for lunch but no more than I'd want my spirit guide to post on XPT and tear Lou a new gaping fuck hole for breaking my... Its just not for me. I guess you just made an otherwise borring subject seem interesting but probably no more than that. Think: Charin:Recovery; Bornyo:God; Thanks anyway.

It's a nice day here in Ohio. I believe "birdsong" is a time, a time to awaken and enjoy a new day.

I like today's Daily Reflections. Very apropos.

Someone put some of the tips from the Living Sober book online. Very basic, simple stuff. Good stuff to last a lifetime. Most powerful truths and useful tools are basic and simple.

I'm going to hop on the bike, have breakfast at Hasty Tasty, take the opportunity to go into work and do a quick couple soldering repairs since we are not operating on the holiday. I might make one of the 10 a.m. meetings, and I might move the RV down to the park I joined. Get the dog out for a hike, and spread some mulch. Watch a little baseball, and Gag Factor 13. Great day to be sober.

I'll drink to th^t. L'Chayim!

No fuzzy bunny day for you Electro?. That makes sense and I like it. I'm just now getting the h3ll0 k1tty thing you got going, it's kinda rockin. Who needs the Easter Bunny once a year when you can have HK every fucken day?. Yes.

Nothing bad ever happened to Hello Kitty, right?. There was no washing of sins, stations of the cross, toe-nail joints, foot fetish whores etc.. It's completely fictional and made for sale, right?. A business.

Post Deleted by Hello Kitty. Brought To You In Part By 2-buck kcuhC.

Charin,

What is the definition of insanity???

20 years today.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Are there any alcs who make their own booze?

Clarence S. from Cleveland's story "Home Brewmeister" was in the First and Second Editions of the Big Book, I've attached his story in a text file.

"My wife became pregnant and the doctor recommended the use of Porter Ale..."

I have no words...

Hank had been saving up this fancy token John gave him for 9 years.

Congratulations on your sobriety anniversary.

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Dos Equis

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Ha! I like that.

Funny, when I got sober, folks with 20 years were called old timers. 9 years ago when Hank got this same token, he mentioned that now that's not the case. True, I looked around at the meeting last night, and I feel like my wonderful journey is just beginning.

http://www.220.ro/desene-animate/08-Birds-Anonymous/4SUEobG94F/