My AA home group is a step meeting that meets on Thursdays. It has been my home group since I got sober in 1990. We discuss one of the 12 steps each week except the first Thursday of each month, when we discuss one of the 12 traditions, and Thanksgiving Day, when we have an open discussion about gratitude. Sometimes we go past one hour to let everyone have a chance to speak. We are a Group with many members with double digit sobriety, and average about 15 folks each week. Our Group celebrated its 30th anniversary last year.

I will try to share here the basics of the step or tradition, my experience, and parts of our discussion that seemed noteworthy to me. I will also attach a .txt file with my 1999 articles on the steps for our local newsletter, the Unity.

These steps are different for different people, I encourage comments and discussion, this is not "As Chuck sees it". Or you can ignore the thread, it will only percolate to the top once a week.

Enjoy!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

We had a small meeting tonight because of single digit weather. There were only 9 of us, but we had a good meeting.

Step Three - Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

There he is, God! Oh no! It was pointed out that doing this step does not involve tambourines, monasteries, or anything like that. It is a committed decision to proceed with the rest of the AA program, to try a different way of life. Most of us mentioned that we were at a point where we were ready to try a different approach to life, to try to get what the other experienced AAs had. Some of us started with Good Orderly Direction, or a Group Of Drunks (AA) as a higher power, and Ed has stayed with that for 16 happy years. So, everyone can clear this hurdle. Most of us shared how our faith has changed over the years.

We discussed how diverse our group is, with Catholics, former Catholics, a Protestant minister, two Buddhists, two Atheists, a few Agnostics, and several non-denominational God believers. I shared how I came in a church member, and discovered I didn't really believe in the basic articles of faith the religion calls for. I am now a deist. Another member shared how he came in defiant because of a fire and brimstone childhood, but has become a Catholic now. AA is a big tent. It doesn't matter what you believe, just that you follow your true beliefs, and work the rest of the steps.

One of our Atheists had a heart attack last weekend, he is recovering. We passed around a card for him. I also had a heart attack a few years ago, and shared how laying on the gurney signing consent forms, turning my will and life over to Dr. Goyal and his cardiac catheter, was similar to my first time with step three. I was in pain and scared, so I decided to allow myself to be helped. With AA, I was also in pain and scared. It was about being willing to follow through with the rest of the steps, and to begin to make life decisions on an altruistic basis.

Continuing the heart attack analogy, today I did not exercise, and ate junk. But I am not in severe pain, fearing for my life. Same with step three, at this point in my sobriety (18 years) I can get by on my own will in most areas, instead of doing the things I really know I need to do. But I've come a long way, I didn't drink today, or cause a lot of harm to others.

There is a great freedom in step three, and great strength. After I have aligned my will with my beliefs, I can proceed boldly, knowing I am doing what I should be doing. I can proceed without trying to manipulate outcomes, I can do my part and leave the rest to Providence. I have confidence and a feeling of well being.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

So?

Hey Charin, are you familiar with the term "13 steppin'"? Do they use that in the states?

PS. I saw this and thought of you (no homo):

http://www.spankwire.com/Gagging-Report-Volume-3/video151598/

Thanks, Chuck! I'll be an avid reader of these.

It is a spiritual kindergarden, basic spiritual hygiene, a practical spirituality that works for drunks.

Quote:

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Dude, I so want to go out for a couple beers with you, bring your friends from your meeting too!

---

If we could just have a couple, we wouldn't be alcoholics.

Thanks for the link. Yes, I think the term 13th stepping is universal. For those who don't know, it refers to having romantic relations with new members. Sternly warned against, but I've seen it work out OK in several cases, with both sobriety and the relationship.

Thanks for reading and responding.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It is still cold and sloppy here, we only had 11 people at the meeting. Doris H. celebrated 21 years of sobriety.

Step Four - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

All 11 of us have done a fourth step. It was mentioned how important it is to attend meetings and hear others share about this step, to see that many others have gone through with this. To some, it seems like an initiation, the big hurdle to get over to get into the club. Truly, it is, it is time to get serious or get drunk.

People shared about how things had happened to them in childhood, and they had a hard time figuring out their part in it. Their part was carrying the events into their lives 30 years later, letting these things consume them. The women in the meeting shared about shame, how shame will get you drunk, and how the process of inventory and sharing with someone else helps to get rid of shame.

Dave shared about how it was feeling like shit about himself that kept him drinking. We must take an honest look at where we've been, and who we are, to cut some of these mountains down to mole hills. Once we take stock, and clear the air about sometimes embarrassing or tragic events, we begin to see how we can build a good, sober life.

A worksheet thing from a Dallas workshop was passed around, to much amusement, and a couple members told about all the 4th step guides that seem to abound. General feeling is that these get in the way more than they help. In general, our first fourth steps tended to be autobiographical, and subsequent inventories focused more on specific current areas.

It was pointed out that the hardest part is starting, once you take pen to paper, it starts to flow and get easier. I shared about how I could only write for about an hour at a sitting, and making an appointment to do step five forces us to wrap thing up.

Honesty is the big thing here. It is time to get honest with ourselves, to take a hard look at what we have done and become, and get a vision of a way forward. When I hit upon my biggest resentment, my evil stepmother, I had enough faith to realize this process would grant me freedom, I didn't need to drink over her anymore. Later, I would gain additional freedom from childhood issues, as I peeled the onion of self-awareness. This is the beginning of a process that really works.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

STEP 4 IS A MOTHERFUCKER!! I love the meetings in my area and my homegroup. I made coffee, I set up, cleaned up, did it all. I even made it to secretary after having only 3 months clean and the requirement was 6 months clean, but they liked me and had faith in me. I counted the days, read the pamphlets, gave hugs and all, everytime I relapsed they never turned their backs on me, never made me feel bad. I truly love those folks. And when it was on St. Marks Place, I practically lived in there when I first came out of rehab, I was scared to go anywhere else for fear of using, so I stayed there and they had meetings 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
I like step meetings, but prefer open discussion and speaker meetings. Ive made a few womens only ones and didnt care for that, it was about being abused and I couldnt relate, I havent been in those types of relationshits. I related w/some feelings of pain and using but it wasnt for me. I have all the books, but I havent written anything in the Step Working Guide book.
Good for you for staying clean all those years, I know its a very hard thing to do and I admire anyone who has done it.
Congrats!!
I seriously mean that, congratulations to you.

I read my NA book all the time and my Just for Today everyday faithfully.

Actually my first meeting, when I introduced myself, 5 people bought me a book without speaking to each other first, so I left my first meeting w/my key ring and 5 NA books.....I cherish them.

Well, it's one day at a time. This is about our lives, not some silly contest to see who can stay dry longest.

I got sober. That's the trip I'm on, sobriety. I've built a new, sober life that is much better than what I had before. No pot, etc. as I saw in another thread. I am being restored to sanity.

Meetings are fellowship, working the steps with a sponsor is recovery. We talk about recovery in meetings, recovery takes place in our lives outside the rooms.

Maybe, take a hard look at the previous step. When a step seems insurmountable, often re-visiting the previous step will help a great deal. I could not face myself with the tool of inventory, until I had the confidence of Step Three, a higher power and a belief in the process of recovery.

I will never regret the initial investment of time and effort I put into my recovery. After a year sober and working the steps, things get really easier and life gets a lot better. I started working on life, instead of the inside workings of Chuck. And early seeds like financial and health and employment and relationship mending started to bloom.

Take the plunge, the water's fine. Good luck, thanks for sharing, and keep comin' back.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

My buddy gets out of rehab wednesday.

"It's all gonna be different, this time, Patty..."


We'll see.....

One thing I learned when I used to go to the prison meeting - it is very important to get him to a meeting the day he gets out.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Thanks Charin, I know the first year is very hard, that's what alot of old times have said, I have to be honest and say Ive never made it that long, the longest Ive stayed completely clean, no pot, no pills to help me sleep, nothing, was 9 months, then I picked up thinking I could do it right this time....yeah right, like no ones ever thought of that one.
I keep coming back, and I try. Ive only done up to 4 and stopped because it was really really deep and my mind wasnt there yet I guess. Its never too late, so like I said, I keep trying.

Twelve hearty alcoholics braved the Ohio winter storm's aftermath to attend our meeting tonight. The meeting was touched by the news that Tommy M., who had a heart attack a couple weeks ago, had died earlier this week. He was a colorful character who had 27 years sober when he died. He will be missed my many. Also, my good friend John C. celebrated 29 years of continuous sobriety. John was my sponsor's sponsor for many years, and we were both in a special Army intelligence command.

Step five - Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

All of us at the meeting had done this step. Dave spoke first and hit the nail on the head, as he usually does, by describing the shame he felt, and how this step let him get rid of a lot of that. His sponsor told him to just do the step, write the stuff down and share it, and the healing would happen. Many of us said we learned in this step that we were just drunks, sharing with a trusted recovering sponsor helps, and often the sponsor can share part of their story to put things into perspective.

I grew up in VFW clubs with my dad, watching the old vets slowly drink themselves to death. There is something romantic about that, and something pulling me to drink over certain parts of my past. The process of inventory, and taking a look with God and myself, and verbalizing these things with Hank, voided the power of these memories to make me want to drink. It was after this step that the compulsion to drink was greatly diminished.

We carry the principle of step five with us, John spoke about how wonderful it is that we do this for each other, that among our fellowship it is expected that we will lend a patient ear, and give honest, considered feedback. This is how we deal with the problems life hands us, this is the basics of Alcoholics Anonymous, one alcoholic sharing with another.

It was pointed out by many that this is the step that made us feel a part of AA. We wanted this thing with, literally, the desperation of the doomed, and this gave us the feeling that we were going to make it. It was also shared by many that they took and hour or so break, as suggested in the Big Book, and then began to look towards step six.

The two women in the meeting both shared about finding someone to trust. As a man, I see the fear of being judged as the obstacle, and eventually I figured the idea of one drunk judging another was silly. But I agree with Hank, if you don't trust your sponsor to hear your fifth step, you have the wrong sponsor. It was discussed that other avenues are available, but in the Dayton community and Ohio in general, we share with sponsors. Clergy and others can help, and in parts of Canada a priest is the usual recipient. It is an honor to be chosen to hear a fifth step.

Bottom line, do it or drink, for almost all of us. And we all did this, and came out the other end better for it.

Next week, Tradition Two.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Fight the good fight, Charin!

"Bottom line, do it or drink, for almost all of us. And we all did this, and came out the other end better for it."

I like this part; underestimated by many, done by a few. Keep it up, Chuck.

There were 19 alcoholics at the meeting tonight, including a visitor from New Jersey. Ken S., a former longtime regular who moved north 30 miles or so, showed up and got a 25 year token. We held a business meeting after the meeting, and elected Gary to be Intergroup Representative, as Bob has cancer and the chemo keeps him from fulfilling the role. We have a treat every first Thursday, tonight Tom brought homemade chocolate chip cookies, and lots of 'em.

Tradition Two - For our group purpose, there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern.

The long form of Tradition Two - For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. (This long form is shorter than the short form)

Our Group had a big controversy 20 years ago, about 2 years before I showed up. This led to the Group discussing a tradition every month, and we enjoy this. We also feel it has made our Group stronger. The Group has a heavy emphasis on service work, both locally and at the General Service level. All the AA traditions are based on spiritual principles, and drilling down to these concerns give a fresh look at group interactions, and points out spiritual practices AAs can apply to their own lives. These traditions meetings are not as dry and boring as one might think.

Our Second Tradition protects against having a strong leader decide group matters. It forces us to act together, to use our combined knowledge and experience to resolve issues and establish levels of service that allow us to survive. These "officers" have no real authority, we just collect the money, pay the bills, make the coffee, chair the meetings, and go to the Area assemblies and Intergroup meetings. At the General Service level, our delegates to the General Service Conference carry the Area's conscience to AA at the national and worldwide level. The Group is on the top of the hierarchy, the members have the final say.

The group dynamics work out this way, this is the way alcoholics act. Several of our traditions are that way, the way it just must be. Our Group is blessed with an abundance of elder statesmen, experienced members who are calm in the "crisis" and offer advise, but do not try to exercise authority. This example of humility and stability is the solid leadership we really have.

The second tradition has the phrase, "a loving God." This was mentioned a few times as a reminder that God does love us. One member said he abandoned the "Terrorist God" he had coming into AA, and accepted the loving God of the 2nd Tradition. It was also discussed how this applies to us individually, that since I have decided to live on an altruistic level, my judgments should be guided by my conscience, prayer and the advise of experienced AAs and others I trust. It was also mentioned how, as Bill describes in the 12x12, sometimes we individually think we hear the "voice of God" when we are really in need of hearing the voice of reason from our fellow AAs. We must step out of the isolation and allow others to help us.

There was a lot of discussion about the two 12x12 terms for oldtimers, elder statesmen and bleeding deacons. Most long time members shared some moments of being a bleeding deacon, but we all know they are now our beloved elder statesmen. Several laughs were had. Robert shared about how a meeting at a halfway house forced him to be both - he had to stand up to the group and tell them they needed to take over, he would be a faithful member, but the Group needed to step up and run things, he wouldn't do it all. The Group responded after some frazzled moments, and is now humming along.

Rotation was mentioned as an important part of keeping this tradition fluid. Rotating these service positions ensures no "empire building" takes place.

I've seen several controversies rise and be handled by Groups, or our Intergroup, letting everyone have their say, their vote, and resolutions made in the spirit of loving tolerance. It was pointed out that elder statesmen do not get excited about these controversies, but have the faith that our loving God will work this out through the Group conscience. I've also learned to make sure I think before I act, and realize I can benefit greatly from the advise and concerns of others.

Next week, Step Six. Keep comin' back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

What happpens if you don't believe in god Charin?
How many steps do you get if you're Tom Cruise?
I'm not taking a shot at you because I'm hella proud of you and someday we'll talk baseball, and bikes.
Serious answer though because sometimes I ease up on the slow lane types with "One Day At A Time" stickers on the back. I need to feel the "atta boy" for not running them off the road. Fill me in on the left lane sped right off.

There used to be AA/NA meetings for atheists but they were a pain in the ass to get to usually. Churches love to host and sponsor those meetings to take advantage of desperate, addictive people and get them hooked on god to increase their weekly take. The atheist meetings are usually held way less often and in locations that are off the beaten path so they are hard to attend for most people, at least that was my experience when looking into them way back in the day. I suppose YMMV depending on your location.

Tommy M., who just died sober with 27 years, was an athiest. Ed, sitting next to me tonight, has 17 years, and is atheist. Some substitute AA as a whole, the Group, Good Orderly Direction, Group Of Drunks, or spiritual principles in general as a natural way of the world, nature, whatever. As an atheist friend Mike says, "But you better pick something you believe can help you stay sober." It works, if you work it.

I drive like my hair is on fire, so no bumper stickers here. Some folks get too much serenity.

Fiend, we have clubhouses here with meetings a few times a day, no connection with churches. There are club AAs, and church basement AAs like Tommy, Ed, Mike and me. I can't think of any AAs who joined a church because there is a meeting there.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It is a nice night here in Dayton, I rode the motorcycle to the meeting. There were 12 alcoholics tonight, not including George, who stopped by before going to the Intergroup business meeting. Several of our members go to the Intergroup meeting, so attendance is a bit thin the second Thursday of each month. We had two visitors, and one, Ted, got a 3 month token. We only went 50 minutes tonight, as the crowd was thin. One of our senior members, Bob P., is moving to assisted living under Hospice, he is dying from the same kind of cancer that took my dad. Bob sounded upbeat on the phone, and we will visit him periodically.

Step Six - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

Understand most of the people tonight have a lot of sobriety, so we explored this initially nebulous step from the point of view of sharing what has worked in the long haul. The attached file may give a better view of 6 from someone starting out. Tom opened the meeting and discussed how he believes God will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. I don't totally subscribe to this, but for Tom, it's working well. He says the step is a call to action, to work on strengthening character. I think Tom uses the program as a Higher Power in this case, and reduces defects by following the spiritual path of A.A.

Several of us said we realized we cannot do this alone. Hank shared about how he first tried to guide the process, to choose which defects to work on, which to keep, etc. That does not work. Our Higher Power, or life if you will, has a way of directing which problems need attention. After a few years of trying to beat ourselves pure, we discovered we needed to cool it a bit, to be willing to let things take their natural course. We learn we do not need to seek out problems, they will appear in time. We also realized we would not become perfect, or anywhere near, even though perfection is the unachievable goal.

Hank said this is one day at a time for him, and he does this as part of his morning program. He shared about the frustration of trying to find a better way, a deeper insight into the steps. And he sought out oldtimers, changed sponsers, and still kept hearing the same answers. Ah, it isn't a battle, it is life.

I spoke of how these are the things that will get us drunk. I used to set myself up for emotional turmoil, so I could have a reason to drink, so I could drink guilt free. I wanted a reason. I'd piss you off, and make you give me a reason. Or a myriad of other behaviors, and I needed to get these habits of 15 years tamped down if I was to stay sober. But after 18 years sober, I have found out how much I can get away with. This is another challenge, to keep myself moving forward, to keep the cycle of sloth, guilt, sloth, fear, etc. from becoming a giant snowball rolling downhill. In some ways, I have learned about myself through my failings, and accepted my humanity.

I always share about 6 and 7 that I know what my fellow A.A.s were like before because I've heard their stories, and I know them as wonderful, dependable people today, so these steps do work. And I ain't the assshole I used to be.

John paraphrased a saying he heard that we alcoholics are like other people, only more so. I love it! Yes, we get on emotional benders, when it would be reasonable to be this angry, we get t h i s a n g r y. He shared about how he knows everything, and was so glad when the election was over, because it was driving him to anger. He was dismayed when he discovered politics goes on. John is big into serenity, and he is called to this step when something messes with his serenity. He strives to be "right sized".

I had mentioned how it was sometimes difficult to delineate which is depression, and what is a character defect. Another member shared about her eating disorder, and how it is probably both, but it doesn't matter, she knows what actions she needs to take. Well, I heard what I needed tonight!

Our other member in attendance tonight with 30+ years shared that she gets frustrated when she finds herself going backwards. To hear these long timers express occasional struggles with 6 and 7 lets me know that this is just life, and that's what she shared about, that she will never be non-human and perfect, but she can be a good person today. That's what it's all about.

We approach this from a fairly generic position, allowing those with faith in the metaphysical, or those who do not believe in a Diety, to gain insight and grow. And, stay sober. John hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the old A.A. truism that if you sober up a horse thief, all you have is a sober horse thief, who will eventually drink again. Step Six means more than that now, but that is surely a good beginning.

FYI, no one mentioned them, but some folks look at the seven deadly sins. They are: Lust, envy, gluttony, sloth, greed, anger and pride. I don't find much use for the list, as the root of a lot of my trouble is fear and ego, and loss of control.

Next week, Step Seven - Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. Keep comin' back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Bet ya'll never knew how complicated it is, being a drunk.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

You need to tell your group about xxxporntalk. We're here to listen. And to help.

When I hosted the poker game, I showed some of them the Ashley Blue Gag Factor 15 scene, where she plays a soldier being throat fucked by a bunch of Arabs. It was met with lukewarm response. Next time, I'll put an Overstuffed on a loop, unless they insist on watching a ball game.

Tommy was a self-described pervert, but he was gay and died. Bill, but he's 60. Shit, I can't think of anyone to send here.

There used to be some seriously nice women, but now just older ones, unless a visitor shows up.

I remember Lou trying to convince me to drink one night. Ha!

Know how I sponsor people? They call, I listen for 5 minutes, then I roll the dice and whatever comes up on them, I tell him to work that step on his problem. They think I'm a fuckin' guru.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Free, it's a joke! I'll tell another one later.

It was cold again in Dayton, and at least two regulars had other things they could not get out of, so we only had 12 alcoholics at the meeting. We passed around a card for Bob P. Sudie came with her new baby, and got a 1 year token. Claudia celebrated 9 years sobriety. We had a short group conscience meeting afterwards, and decided to add a moment of silence before we end with the Responsibility Statement, and we decided to limit our Group's 31 year celebration to a simple cake.

Step Seven - Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

We discussed several aspects of humility and how we have grown because of the awareness and growth we have enjoyed. The Chairperson spoke of how this step helps at work, something I can relate to. There are times, several agreed, when we need to be assertive. There are other times we need to defer to others. Perhaps most difficult for several of us, there are times when we should remain silent.

It was discussed how as children some of us were told we were not good enough, and some were told they could do anything. Restraining the two extremes is a big part of humility. This is also a big part of removing our shortcomings. We are not going to become perfect, we are not abhorrently warped, we are simply people trying to be better. Trying to get along with others.

The end aim of all of this is, to lead life on an altruistic plane. To strive to be good people, to accept what serendipitous results we may enjoy, but to be driven to help others and do the will of our Higher Power. It is in this spirit we ask, that our shortcomings may be removed, in part, for as long as needed, for us to do good works. Not for our own comfort, although it works out that way. But this is a point of spiritual perfection we aim for, but never really achieve.

A point of spiritual willingness and humility I will never reach again, was a short prayer I said at 4 days sober. The attached file says more about this. I asked for help without restraints, I was desperate and ready to do what I needed to do and accept any outcome, if God would help me make it in AA. I doubt I will ever have that level of humility again.

We had a few laughs, Hank saying it took 3 people to replace him after he retired, me telling how the motorcycle is helping give me humility. Also, banging yourself in the head over character defects, and trying to bull my way through Step 6, gave me a little humility.

And we must accept our continued shortcomings as part of this humility. Anger, frustration, and self condemnation will not help. We must be grateful for the progress that we have made. I know I had gone a long way by the time I got to Step 7.

How does one know when to go to the next step? We know this is a lifelong striving, it is not like 4 and 5, where we knew when we were done. Well, sponsorship helps here. Once I had overcome any of my grosser handicaps, and got a decent feel for the lifelong striving to improve in other areas, I was ready to start writing my list for 8.

I hope the next time (probably at work) when I start to be the problem, I can go to this step and see if we can subdue my shortcoming(s) for so long as needed.

Next week - Step Eight. Keep comin' back.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

And I want to add this additional postscript, not on edit. There were two alcoholics with over 30 years of sobriety at the meeting. One passed without talking, the other left before the business meeting, saying whatever the Group decided was fine. So, more lessons in humility.

One day I was hanging out at the library killing time before the meeting. On the way to the car, a wino hit me up for a dollar. I told him I'd buy him a bottle, if he went to the AA meeting with me (I was new). He said OK, and away we went to the meeting. I was feeling pretty smug, as the meeting was about Step 12, helping other alcoholics.

Well, after the meeting I was driving the wino back to the library, and he asked for the bottle. Conversation went like this:
Me - "You are just using me to get drunk."
Wino - "Well, you are just using me to stay sober."
Me - "Where the hell did you learn that?"
Wino - "At that Goddamn meeting, wern't you paying attention?"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

^^^^That's going in the script, Chuck. If it sells, I'll shoot you a few bucks...

There were 14 alcoholics at tonight's meeting, including a relative newcomer and an experienced AA from Dallas, Texas.

Step Eight - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

This was the easiest step for me. I was fortunate in several ways. One, this did not scare me when I first came to AA. I was on the one day at a time regimen, and I didn't look this far ahead. I figured things would take care of themselves in time, or I could deal with it or not. I didn't have any terribly difficult amends on my list either, so fear was not a big factor for me. But my experiences are shared in the attached file, as well as a couple controversial opinions. This space is for the group.

A few members echoed Bill W.'s 12 x 12 (the AA book, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions") by saying forgiveness is at the heart of this step. Not them forgiving us, but us looking past harms done to us, to get to the place where we honestly want to right the wrongs we have done. The nature of harm was also discussed. The 12 x 12 was quoted, the part where Bill describes harm is very broad. We gave several examples of things that we put on our lists, but our sponsors said no amends were needed. In my case it was not keeping up with old friends, my sponsor asked if they had kept up with me. Well, obviously, no. Duh.

Any discussion of 8 and/or 9 must include the disclaimer that this is a sponsorship step! I, and my group, stress this. Newcomers often tangle a much more painful web when they go out early, on their own, and try to make amends. Doing this in an appropriate time and manner is something that requires the preparation of the previous steps and an experienced guide!

Two members, including the new lady, were currently working on their first fourth step, and passed. I am sure they benefited from our discussion, the new lady more than Bill, who nodded out. But, that's OK, see next week's topic.

The only discussion of the mechanics of this thing, which I find important, was 4 or 5 people saying they followed the vague Big Book (the book titled, "Alcoholics Anonymous") line that amends could be classified as ones we are ready to make, ones that will take a little preparation, and ones we are currently unwilling to make. I guess this must have worked for thousands and thousands of alcoholics, but I laid mine out differently.

George said something important, "This is a list, not a script." Hank said there is no point of even thinking about amends until you have worked 6 and 7 and become willing to not do the offending behavior again, many agreed. It is pointless and painful on both ends to say, "I'm sorry," and do the same thing again.

Some folks said they were "sorry people" who felt responsible for everything that ever went wrong. Sponsorship resolves this fairly quickly. Several expressed that total willingness for all their amends did not come until the next step was underway, or in many cases, until several more years had passed. Also, (again stressing sponsorship!) the best we can do in some cases is just leave the person alone. We should not try to heal ourselves by opening the wounds of others. Along these lines, many of mine were when I was overseas in the service, in a different state, or the person was dead. So in these cases, making the list, reflecting upon these harms, and having a sincere wish to mend the relationship, along with putting the matter in front of my sponsor, is the healing. I feel this step was more beneficial to me than the direct amends in step 9.

This step also has a financial component, and this part works, too. Be willing to pay the money back, or make a payment plan and stick to it. But in my case, for one creditor, I needed to start making payments immediately, I did not dodge responsibility because I was not on this step yet. That is not an excuse for newcomers. Also, the bullshit about telling other AA's, "Well, I'll put you on my 8th step," is just that, bullshit. The second part of the step is willingness, we must take actions. But, that is a discussion for step nine.

Our recently departed member Tommy used to speak about shame when we came to 8 and 9. He was spot on. Shame will get us drunk, and these amends steps are a small price to pay for a lifetime of freedom. Remember, the "promises" from pages 86 & 87 in the Big Book come after step eight - we will be amazed before we are halfway through.

Next week, the first Thursday of the third month, Tradition Three - The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

Keep Comin' Back,
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

This is the oldest joke in AA.

Two guys, Fred and James, grew up together, went to school together, got drunk together, worked together, and got sober together. As they aged, they agreed that the first one to die would try to contact the other, and say if there was any AA in the afterlife.

The time came and James died. As agreed, noon the next day Fred went into meditation, and James began speaking to him. He said it was a wonderful place. Fred asked if there was AA there, and James said, well, yes, meetings 3 times a day, lots of oldtimers, good fellowship, only one piece of bad news.

Fred asked, "What's the bad news?"

James answered, "You are scheduled as the lead speaker next Friday."

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Edit - There is only one rule in AA. Who can name it?

Answer : Rule #62.

What is it?

Answer April 2nd.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Don't take yourself to seriously. I found this guy when I googled. He's pretty funny...

http://www.aaspeakers.org/Earl_H-from-Studio_City_CA-at-the_Rule_62_Roundup-in-Erlanger_KY-on-08-10-2001

Yes. "Don't take yourself too damn seriously." From the Tradition Four essay in the 12 x 12, more detail April 2 when the group discusses Tradition Four.

There are a couple guys in my group who go to the Rule 62 Roundup, and the Hairy Legged Boys workshop in Kentucky, I've never been.

Duh, I never thought about free downloads of lead tapes online. I don't listen to very many tapes (I guess they are CDs now), but maybe I'll download some. I'll bet there's some good stuff out there.

Thanks,
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It is a nice night in Dayton, a little windy, but 61F. I rode the bike to the meeting. The Group started the first Thursday in March, 1978, so tonight we celebrated our 31st anniversary with a cake. There were 16 alcoholics there. Bill got a token for 12 years, and my friend Tom was celebrating 19 years.

Tradition Three - The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

Long form of Tradition Three - Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought AA membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.

PAY ATTENTION! If you say you are an AA member, you are. No one may refuse you recovery. You don't need to bring anything, you don't have to believe in anything. You are in if you say so. I want to make this crystal clear - and share that many in our group said tonight they would not be here if it had been any other way. Don't let anything deny you a seat. If you say you need this thing, here it. We will be thrilled to share it with you. No exceptions. No one may throw you out, although if you are exceptionally unruly or blatantly disrespect the rules of the facility you are in, you may be asked to come back another day, please.

That leaves us drunks no excuses. Go to AA. They can't throw you out. For some of us, it was the last place for us to go. No matter how high or how low, we know. Welcome. I will love you like an old friend, because everything is here for YOU!

Keep comin' back. We won't throw you out, we may say some things you need to, but don't want to, hear, but we will always welcome you back. Many members of our Group, now sober many years, tried for several years before they finally achieved long term sobriety.

For my part, I thought this membership requirement very difficult. It took me either 6 weeks, or 15 years, to be eligible, depending on how you look at it. I didn't want to put the plug in the jug. But, I kept comin' back, and it worked.

We went to almost 9:00 tonight. There is so much in this simple principle. But you get the main idea. A couple things to leave you with, then I'll close this week's essay up.

I was privileged to attend an Ohio State Convention when the archivist from GSO in New York spoke. He said newcomers don't want to know about the steps, they want to know about the Traditions. Who runs this? How much does it cost? Do I have to join? What projects are you involved in?

Darrin said, "If more people would follow some simple principles, we wouldn't need rules."

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

We had 13 people at the meeting tonight, and 4 members at the Intergroup business meeting downtown. Robert celebrated 7 years sobriety, and those of us who were around 10 years or so ago, were thrilled to see Glen. He was a regular when I first started, then dropped out of sight. He has been sober, attending an occasional meeting elsewhere, but he was glad to be back.

Step Nine - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Talk tonight seemed to center around parents. Some people had a good, long discussion with a parent, but that seemed rare. Most of the time, it seems we do not need to say too much to those close to us, it is awkward. But some recognition that wrongs have been committed must be made.

This is a sponsorship step. Going at this too early or with the wrong motive sometimes results in disaster. For most of us, our sponsor whittled down the list. And while it is not helpful to rehearse a dialog, having a general idea of what to say and how to say it is a good idea.

It was said that it is better to use the word "wrong" than "sorry" for several reasons.

This can also involve money, one needs to be prepared to pay money back or make arrangements to do so, when making amends to those we owe.

Another theme tonight was teenage children. This brought up the general way to approach an amend without seeming to grovel. We admit we were wrong, express regret, and be willing to set things right, as best we can.

Sometimes, the best amends we can make is to stay away. Other times, a visit to a gravesite may be appropriate.

Many of us have repaired relationships with parents, spouses, employers, and children. We learn a lot about our relationships with these amends steps. This has given me the courage to admit mistakes in general, and to have a sincere desire not to harm others.

Next week, step ten. Keep Comin' Back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

A salesman was at a convention in a fancy Chicago high rise hotel, and ate and drank a bit much. He went upstairs to his room on the 10th floor and went to bed. He couldn't hold back and soiled the bed linens. Afraid he would be found out and become the laughing stock of all the widget salesmen, he threw the bedsheet out the window.

About this time, one of the more adventuresome conventioneers was stumbling down the sidewalk after drinking his fill in a local bar. The sheet fell over top of him, and after he struggled out of it, he found himself face to face with one of Chicago's finest. The policeman asked what the hell was going on, and the drunk replied, "You aren't going to believe this, officer, but I just beat the shit out of a ghost!"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It was a nice night here in Dayton, a bit cool, but I still rode the bike to the meeting. There were 14 of us. One of our long time members who had cancer, Bob P., died this week. He was Buddhist, a quiet guy, soft spoken, very serene. He is missed.

Step Ten - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

This was a good meeting for me. All but one of us had double digit sobriety, and Bill has 5 years. Ann opened the meeting and spoke about all the standard step 10 stuff. Briefly, there are 3 kinds of 10th steps, the spot check inventory, the daily inventory, and an occasional look at how we have done for a longer period of time. Many people, like me, do an annual inventory. The end of day inventory is part of our evening program, and we can always have some gratitude, even if it is just for staying sober that day.

The meeting really focused on the spot check inventories and how we use this step in daily living. People shared about needing to go here when we are challenged by situations, when we begin to feel angry, jealous, fearful, and so on. Many shared personal experiences from the recent past, even things that happened today.

Restraint of tongue and pen was stressed, and restraint of e-mail was also mentioned. This is the challenge, to recognize and stop our behaviors before we take actions we regret later. Step 10 lets us look inside when we are upset, and settle the disturbance. Then, we may take reasoned and appropriate action if indicated.

Also discussed was how we can set things right if we have gone too far. Most examples were about words said in anger, at home or work. This step lets us go to the person and apologize, freeing ourselves of guilt and repairing the relationship.

This is a lifelong endeavor, and something timely to discuss for me, as I have some challenges now at work. But judging by the folks I've met in AA, this step works very well, and lets us get along without all the turmoil we used to cause. Of course, here on XPT, we joke around and cut on each other, but no real harm is going to come from posts on a wide open porn board, I hope.

Next week, Step 11. Keep Comin' Back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

An AA group decided to volunteer to paint the church basement where they met. They were to paint white, where the walls had been blue. Being a bit "thrifty" the drunks got about half the paint they needed, and cut it with paint thinner. It looked good when they put it on, but as it started to dry, the blue began to show through in an ugly way.

As the drunks watched this, they began to wonder how to fix it. One said out loud, "What should we do?" A booming voice came from the pastor's office, "Re-paint, and thin no more!"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

I used to paint all my apartments and forfeit the damage deposit back just so I could really style my place out. My serial designer heart sank at the thought of someone not priming the walls first.

Charin - just so you don't go to bed sad, I want you to know I got the joke and it was cute.

Repent and sin no more = Repaint and thin no more, from a priest! Geddit? Sigh.

My barely church going ass didn't get the joke until you told me. I love it!

It is another nice night in Dayton, I rode the Kawasaki to the meeting. We had a good crowd, 19 alcoholics, including 2 women there for the first time.

Step Eleven - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

This tool is available to all who would use it, regardless of faith. Our discussion started with the Chairperson stressing how we have an objective here, and ought to keep that in mind. We should be attempting to bring ourselves in more conscious contact with our Higher Power. For me, that means I need to emphasize being aware through the day that I am attempting to live according to altruistic motivations.

The Chairperson also shared, as she does each time we come to this step, how she tried yoga and meditation on speed, and that didn't work well at all. And George always talks about hearing "prayer and medication" when he went to his first meeting.

Many different techniques are used among our group's members. Almost all of us have something like a formal morning program, where we may read something and have a period of quiet, followed by prayer. Some of these are more elaborate, with a half hour of reading, meditating, etc, while mine is much shorter, a brief pause followed by a short rote prayer. I ask for strength and guidance. I need to ask for help more often.

A couple folks shared about how religion helped them with this. Several of us talked about finding 11th step experiences in nature, while hiking. While the 12 x 12 used the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi as an example, many of us shared other things we have explored in depth. Scripture, recovery literature, daily meditation guides, for me, the step we are on this week, gratitude, and our concerns for others are topics. Others with more experience talked of emptying their minds and experiencing quiet, this is a place some of us rarely visit, and some never find.

I am so grateful that a drunk like me can have a daily spiritual life. I do believe it is very important for us drunks to reach deep inside ourselves on a daily basis, to honestly confront who and what we are, and what we believe we should do for the day.

Next week, Tradition Four, and more about Rule 62. Keep Comin' Back!

**********
Emo Philips says when he was a little boy, he prayed and prayed for a bicycle. When he learned that God doesn't work that way, he stole a bicycle and prayed for forgiveness.
**********

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

This is post 999 for me, and GF29 has arrived. Look for a review tomorrow evening after I meditate upon it. First peek reveals some very good scenes. Also, I am back to work after a short break, so I'll be posting less.

I'm still working on how cross eyed all the drunks were from smelling all the paint and thinner. That shit's a rush !

It was a drizzly night here in Dayton, and there were only 11 alcoholics at our meeting. All of us have many years experience in AA. Ed's wife sent some chocolate chip sandwich cookies that were excellent.

Tradition Four - Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other Groups or AA as a whole.

Tradition Four, long form - With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.

There is a lot to discuss after reading this chapter in the 12 x 12 (Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions). Many years ago, two women from Dayton went on vacation in New England and brought back a brick from Wambly's Clapboard Factory, mentioned in Bill's essay. Of course, this is also the chapter where Rule #62 is found - Don't take yourself too damn seriously. This is a topic that could be discussed for an entire meeting. Tonight, however, the discussion drifted towards us long timers sharing about our experiences with different groups and our service structure.

There is a lot of freedom here for the groups. This allows groups to conduct meetings as they see fit. It allows groups to take on their own personalities. This allows newcomers to find a group they are comfortable in. It gives us the flexibility to carry the message the best we know how in different environments. It allows us to make a comfortable place for each other and for new people.

With this freedom comes responsibility. We all seemed to agree that although we are at first shocked by groups that break traditions and don't stick to the AA message, if something is not spiritually based, it soon enough fades away. As Bill says in the book, just about every mistake that can be made, has been tried, and AA has survived. Some of the things that were mentioned were groups that were tied up with religion, a group where women were being pimped out, a group that tried to hold a car wash, groups that had conflicts of personalities take over, groups that used their treasuries for non-AA purposes, and groups that just did not focus on recovery. All of these groups we mentioned have faded away over a relatively short time.

We discussed how we are responsible to other groups and AA as a whole. Hank spoke about how different places try to schedule events so they do not conflict with other popular events. We discussed how we have an obligation to present the AA message at our meetings, to keep our closed group a closed meeting, and how we have an obligation to be a good tenant and not soil the AA name. Our group is particularly cognizant of these responsibilities, as we have a past delegate, two DCM's, and active GSR and an active intergroup representative, and the chair of the local central office committee in our group. Plus, two of us attend prison meetings. Quite a lot of service work going on in my group.

Also mentioned was the "Fourth Dimension" type of meeting that has sprung up in the last few years. Early in AA history, there were two places where there was AA - Akron, Ohio and New York. In Akron, our co-founder Dr. Bob (a proctologist) was a prolific 12th stepper, and people would go to Akron to "take the cure" as it were. Well, Dr. Bob and company only had these guys for about a week, so they sobered them up and pumped them as full of AA as they could, including a blitzkrieg through the steps.

The modern Fourth Dimension groups take their name from a line in the Big Book (the book "Alcoholics Anonymous") about us being rocketed into a fourth dimension. They take newcomers through the steps in about a week, using some techniques that most mainstream AAs find questionable. I have not heard much good about these groups or many tales of success, but I have no first hand experience, so I won't say too much. The mention made tonight was that these groups may be affecting AA as a whole by presenting something that is not the actual AA program.

This works. It is like a self cleaning oven, groups that carry the AA message thrive, those that don't, don't. We remain flexible but consistent in our message. And it did me good to hear a little about Rule #62.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

A Woman Shares - Miracle Of Toilet Paper

Fresh from my shower, I stood in front of the mirror complaining to my
husband that my breasts are too small. Instead of characteristically
telling me it's not so, he uncharacteristically comes up with a
suggestion.

"If you want your breasts to grow, then every day take a piece of toilet
paper and rub it between them for a few seconds."

Willing to try anything, I fetched a piece of toilet paper and stood in
front of the mirror, rubbing it between my breasts. "How long will this
take?" I asked.

"They will grow larger over a period of years," my husband replies.

I stopped.. "Do you really think rubbing a piece of toilet paper between
my breasts every day will make my breasts larger over the years?''

Without missing a beat he says, "Worked for your butt, didn't it?"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It was a nice night here in Dayton, I rode to the meeting. There were 13 of us there, and 4 members at the Intergroup meeting downtown.

Step Twelve - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

There are 3 parts to this - the spiritual awakening, carrying the message, and practicing the principles. We discussed all three.

The spiritual awakening part was best described by the guy with a little under two years. He shared with us about how his life had changed since he started AA, how he now felt life had a purpose. His outlook on life has changed, he now sees joy and freedom, where before he struggled through. Others talked about having spiritual awakenings as they discovered more about spirituality or the AA program or how things could work out for them. I believe there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a spiritual awakening, the awakening can be a lasting thing if proper spiritual maintenance is maintained. We also talked about how this awakening in AA is universally available, it is not a religious conversion, but a new way of looking at life, a new direction.

The experienced members had some stories about 12th step calls. Answering the phone at the clubhouse led to several experiences for one member, suicides, very drunk drunks, people just wanting a ride for whatever, and drunks with telephonitis. One guy had a fellow try to jump out of his car while he was driving 60 MPH. In Dayton years ago, we had a member killed in a 12th step call. Getting into the middle of a domestic dispute is not a fun time, either. These are some of the reasons we suggest we never go alone on a 12th step call.

There are a lot of other ways to carry the AA message, and the bottom line is this helps us stay sober. We put the program out there, make the tools available, and work with new people as they are willing. But we cannot take credit for their sobriety, and we are not responsible if they get drunk. If we stay sober ourselves, it is a successful 12th step job. Keeping the meetings going, making coffee, committee work, taking meetings to prisons and treatment centers, these are all part of helping the newcomer discover the freedom we have found through AA. These things all help me stay sober.

Practicing the AA principles in all our affairs is a challenge. It is difficult to keep the focus on recovery, to remember who and what I am, and what I am supposed to be following, when I am confronted with difficult people, especially at work. We are far from perfect here. It is easy to be nice inside the rooms of AA, but carrying that throughout the day and in all our activities is the great challenge. Looking to the previous step, keeping a conscious contact with a Higher Power is the key to this.

So, some semantic opinions here. What is a spiritual awakening? I like the 12 x 12 definition, that someone can do that which he was unable to do before on his unaided will. And what is meant by "these principles"? I think that is different for different people, but it is the principles we are committed to living by in the preceding steps, the altruistic principles we developed working the program.

I will continue these little essays for two more weeks, after step 2 we will have come full circle. And this is 12th step work for me, I don't expect anyone will get sober as a direct result of these posts, but I've shown people that the program has substance and is available, and maybe planted a seed or two. But most importantly, I enjoy writing these and they help me look at how I work the AA program.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

It was a beautiful night here, I rode to the meeting. There were 14 of us, including my sponsor's first sponsor, Lou O. Our treasurer announced that we have sent off donations to the local Central Office, SW Ohio General Service Area 56, and the General Service Office in New York.

Step One - We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I love step one meetings. We seemed to talk a lot about the need to hit a bottom, how we struggled with wanting to want to. Two of the members had hit a physical bottom. Since we are all experienced AAs, in hindsight it is funny how far down we went, still thinking we could handle the problem ourselves. That was the hard thing to understand - that we had to have help to battle alcoholism. The other thing that was hard for many of us we the idea of total abstinence.

Somewhere, each of us had a turning point. We were at a bottom, and had the moment of clarity that led us to understand that we needed help from something larger than ourselves. That is the importance of the first word in this step, "We". Each of us had to accept that collectively, as a part of this "we" we call AA, we can do what we were unable to do alone. But we have to pay the dues to convince ourselves that we can't beat it alone.

For me, a better understanding of the nature of alcoholism was the last straw. I realized I would never get better, only worse. My life sucked, and it would only get worse if I continued drinking. And I had seen enough of AA to know there was a decent alternative.

I did not start with the intention of staying sober for 18 years, of course. One day at a time is the concept that helps us accept this drastic proposal, the idea that a drunk would not drink at all today. I could live this drastic approach day to day.

It is certainly different for different people. I think we reach a point where we are unwilling to go down further, when an alternative is at hand. Unfortunately, this is not above ground for some people. They continue, like my lover Tonya, to drink until they drink themselves to death. For others, mixing in drugs leads to a place they cannot go. Some of us have had to go to prison, or become mentally ill, to hit bottom. I also joke that sometimes a divorce attorney can bring about a spiritual experience in an alcoholic.

This is the humor within AA that outsiders don't seem to get. Some stories I've heard - A camping honeymoon where the boat was sunk and camp was burnt to the ground - drunk driving in a loaded school bus - getting arrested two times in the same night by the same cap for hitting the same tree - a whole hour long meeting where everyone told a story of destroying a Christmas tree or throwing one through a window - an airline pilot who made national news for the first flying while intoxicated arrest of a commercial airline pilot (he still flies, and says many AAs do, and many pilots need AA) - John digging graves at the VA and some woman pouring a fifth of whiskey on her husband's coffin saying, "This is all you cared about when you were alive, now you can have the shit forever!" - the time I got drunk on Friday night and my dog spent the weekend in jail - our absolute fascination with alcohol, then and now, set a beer can in a room and we all would just stare at it.

Identifying with each other is crucial to identifying ourselves as alcoholic, that's why we share our stories. That is the way we have to have it, we need to hear from other alcoholics about this game, how we can only win by surrendering. Strange, wonderful, and tragic disease, I love it, and I hate it. Thank God I get to be around other sober alcoholics and relive the old times, so I never forget what misery awaits if I pick up the first drink.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy