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#381885 - 12/18/08 08:47 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Pervert
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 2204
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dont worry about c3x his "career" is about to get flushed down the toilet when he portrays the young version of pedophile larry jack schwars in a january release too vile to mention.
Deballa gonna have his ass subpoenaed in no time flat.
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#381887 - 12/19/08 01:14 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Sun Diego
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Wow. That is a big move; I've heard rumblings from Naughty America for months that they were downsizing heavily and quite a few "staffers" were waiting to get axed. I was always baffled why they had such a large crew in LA and weren't trying to film in San Diego more... Christian; what do you mean by outsource? Like hiring an outside production group or buying content from another company?
_________________________
"I choppy choppy yo pee pee"
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#381890 - 12/19/08 06:10 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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Outsourcing means The Donkey Shed in Chatsworth.
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#381891 - 12/19/08 06:11 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
correction, the production team in LA was laid off. NA is going to start outsourcing their scenes in the coming year. They are still doing fine. lol
What, exactly, does that mean? That they're going to have Mike South or someone do casting, filming and editing in, say, Atlanta?
yep...to the lowest bidder.....
thats how topbucks sells/does it....
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#381893 - 12/19/08 08:38 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 5096
Loc:
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There goes quality.
_________________________
------------------- Mild Mannered Minion ------------------- I feel the pull on the rope, let me off at the rainbow -Anyway, Genesis
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#381894 - 12/19/08 09:12 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 10/15/06
Posts: 412
Loc: NYC
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Quote:
correction, the production team in LA was laid off. lol
Do you find it funny that people are loosing their jobs?
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#381895 - 12/19/08 09:36 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Pervert
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 2058
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#381896 - 12/19/08 10:10 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 5096
Loc:
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I must be getting inured to porn but I can barely distinguish Brazzers vs Reality Kings vs Naughty America content these days. Either that or I am not paying sufficient attention to my porn.
I guess outsourcing their production crew will save money, but from what little I learned about contracting and outsourcing, you're not supposed to outsource core services (your bread and butter). I can see outsourcing payroll, accounting, physical plant/maintenance, secretarial, and relying on contractors for some key positions - editing, graphic design, etc, but I thought a porn company would keep its porn production inhouse.
_________________________
------------------- Mild Mannered Minion ------------------- I feel the pull on the rope, let me off at the rainbow -Anyway, Genesis
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#381897 - 12/19/08 10:29 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Registered Sex Offender
Registered: 07/09/06
Posts: 2362
Loc: St. Louis
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True enough. If you outsource content production, you won't be able to maintain the same production "values". Naughty America scenes are going to look much different than they do now.
_________________________
"Offer them what they secretly want and they of course immediately become panic-stricken."
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#381898 - 12/19/08 10:51 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Pervert
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 2058
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Quote:
Naughty America scenes are going to look much different than they do now.
What ever will they do without the classroom set? How will they deliver all their "fresh new scenes" without it?
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#381904 - 12/19/08 12:51 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Damnit, Charlie. Go easy on her. It's Christmas.
At least you could toss her a doubloon.
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#381906 - 12/19/08 01:02 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Don't sweat it. You could post it on a billboard across from her house and she still wouldn't figure it out.
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#381907 - 12/19/08 01:03 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Sex Slave Trader
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 1487
Loc: NYC
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#381908 - 12/19/08 01:14 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 381
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Quote:
"If the Adult Industry Were a Hospital, We'd Have Been Closed Down Years Ago"
Her saying that is correct. Is this news to anyone?
And her urging talent to call Osha doesn't make it her fault because whoever called did it themselves. She didn't force anyone. She just put out the idea and the ones who called must have had their reasons to call. Dogs are treated better than the talent. Didn't Kayden Kross say she was stepping on enema juice throughout the sets while at Vivid? You think that's right?
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#381910 - 12/19/08 01:17 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 381
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Quote:
Don't sweat it. You could post it on a billboard across from her house and she still wouldn't figure it out.
Attachments
369106-fuck you t-shirt.jpg (9 downloads)
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#381911 - 12/19/08 01:18 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Um, what exactly defines enema juice? Does Kayden mean the juice in the bottle you dump out then replace with water BEFORE the enema or does she mean any juices occurring AFTER the enema?
Anyway, every Vivid set I've ever been on was pristine and spotless btw.
_________________________
"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#381912 - 12/19/08 01:23 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 381
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Quote:
Um, what exactly defines enema juice? Does Kayden mean the juice in the bottle you dump out then replace with water BEFORE the enema or does she mean any juices occurring AFTER the enema?
Anyway, every Vivid set I've ever been on was pristine and spotless btw.
She didn't go into great detail.
mikesouth.com/adam-and-eve/from-the-trenches-2-2050/
Quote:
Sixth movie: i learned that porn stars need assistants (for…?). I finally walked through the perpetual enema juice on the bathroom floor without slipping, wincing, or gagging. This was a milestone.
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#381913 - 12/19/08 01:24 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Sex Slave Trader
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 1487
Loc: NYC
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Quote:
"If the Adult Industry Were a Hospital, We'd Have Been Closed Down Years Ago"
Anita Cannibal has clearly never been to a hospital in NYC.
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#381914 - 12/19/08 01:29 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 11/24/08
Posts: 381
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Quote:
Please clarify. What is your point?
I dunno.
I have to go shovel snow now before this spirals out of control again.
*flashbacks*
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#381916 - 12/19/08 01:35 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Thanks for the sig, sugartits.
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#381917 - 12/19/08 01:39 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Sun Diego
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Wait...maybe I'm out of the loop but Shrinky Dinks is Darrah back again? Good fucking grief. I never heard anything about any issues or fights (Anita) had on set; she used a condom in her scene (looks like with Alex Gonz from the look of it) so its not like they forced her to shoot bareback. Though she's been on that same lame "Mandatory Condom" policy for a few years now even before that particular scene.
_________________________
"I choppy choppy yo pee pee"
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#381918 - 12/20/08 09:33 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/07/06
Posts: 4268
Loc: Portland
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" I just got off the phone with [a Naughty America staff member], who was telling me the story of how the entire Los Angeles production crew was laid off yesterday (Wednesday) afternoon. As they were wrapping up their final shoot of the day, all of the employees who were at the studio—roughly 15 of them—were asked to sit down for a conference. Out of nowhere, Laura D. (executive producer) and Michelle (head of HR) appeared and informed everyone that they were going to be laid off. They were offered two options: two weeks severance pay in addition to the two weeks of vacation pay they were about to get paid—apparently the production crew were all about to go on a two-week paid hiatus, OR, two weeks paid vacation after which they would return to assist in the tear-down of the studio, which would probably take two weeks, and two weeks severance pay. Basically, four weeks of pay or six weeks of pay. It sounds like everyone was stunned and a lot of tears were shed, including many from Laura D. Also from the phone conversation I learned that NA is sitting on about three weeks worth of unedited footage that will hold them afloat for roughly a few more months, but there isn't any word what the company is going to do after that. I would imagine that those employees working in NA's San Diego office who haven't yet been laid off are wondering what kind of job security they have at this point. I've heard of at least three layoffs from within the San Diego office over the past two months. The economy is truly affecting us all." http://fleshbot.com/5114057/rumored-layoffs-at-naughty-america
_________________________
"My people (the real Americans- descended from the original Angle-Saxon pioneers)"-Coke S.
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#381919 - 12/21/08 12:00 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Wait...maybe I'm out of the loop but Shrinky Dinks is Darrah back again? Good fucking grief.
I never heard anything about any issues or fights (Anita) had on set; she used a condom in her scene (looks like with Alex Gonz from the look of it) so its not like they forced her to shoot bareback. Though she's been on that same lame "Mandatory Condom" policy for a few years now even before that particular scene.
not forced.what...i thought all porn was shot with a shotgun pointed directly at the pw's heads....
they edit it out because its all shot bluescreen...
now I knows some of youalls will think im one of thems conspiracy theorists....but fuck youall...i pleads the fifth.
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#381920 - 12/21/08 03:21 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Sun Diego
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FYI: The technology used to edit out the shotguns is also the one Anita's suggested for editing out condoms too. NA can claim its the slow economy, but they've spent some ridiculous money on a number of different projects that were canceled midway through or had no way of making a reasonable return on investment: NA the Game, The Naughty American, their whole gay productions that fizzled out with a separate membership and affiliate system from their straight sites, spending all that money flying to England to film with British talent then having to lie about it when people recognized some of the UK backdrops as I guess they were afraid of legal repercussions or something. I can't fault for them for trying something new, but they way over-expanded the last few years to a level that had to hit their profits. If they were serious about these cuts they should have done them a year ago IMO before the whole economy took this giant shit. And don't forget they have a full floor in an office building and those giant AVN booths. From the sound of it those days are over.
_________________________
"I choppy choppy yo pee pee"
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#381923 - 12/21/08 12:06 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
meh for the internet being the future of porn.
Not to say that it is not....but the fact of the matter is that it really "IS"....
Let’s face facts….DVD is pretty much DEAD….Blu Ray is more for the other side of tinseltown ….no one wants HD of a zitty infested ass….unattractive women who spend HOURS in the makeup chair, with bad boob jobs…..and where 97.5% of their body is inked up..then again…we can now make out on the first run WTF the tattoo says!…..were perfectly content with the low quality as it is now….adds to the mystery….
What is not it total actuality is......bullshit over hyped big baller facades.....
Its time to trim the fat.....Do you really need the office suites in porn culture....no....not really cost effective.....unless your Vivid, Wicked, Digital Playground or Hustler. Where you’re deliberately “wowing” them on just how gaudy your offices are…..
Less overhead....more profit.....
Stop playing like your rich beyond your means.....its crass....unbecoming of yourself.....
If you can only afford X then just be happy with X....don’t get a second mortgage just to let all the hookers know that you got "bling"...the reality of "reality" porn is keepin it real.....
Oh, girl he’s got office space over in Hollywood...Then must be legit...come on let’s go....
For the last time you are not Paramount Pictures or Capitol Records....its fucking porn....nether are you Spielberg, Scorsese or Lucas.
Shoot it in a basement....hotel room....etc....even a van driving around South Florida without tinted windows.....so sad to watch everyone piss away their fortune and end up on the street homeless….begging……sorry pal no sympathy from me……
Bling is reserved specifically for the PW….without their contests to see who has the latest and greatest shit none of you would have girls to shoot and whatever is left of an economy would be totally in the shitter…..
As my uncle Mel Bernstein used say……It's your tree, Frank. You're sitting in it.
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#381925 - 12/21/08 04:12 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 5096
Loc:
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What other studios or production companies are moribund or have already folded or merged with another entity? I am a civilian and I don't keep up with this news.
Brazzers - strong or on the way out? RealityKings - ditto? Evil Angel etc...
_________________________
------------------- Mild Mannered Minion ------------------- I feel the pull on the rope, let me off at the rainbow -Anyway, Genesis
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#381929 - 12/21/08 06:00 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Pervert
Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 2134
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Quote:
If Naughty America goes belly up, thats probably 30-40% of Christian's income right there.
I could see him throwing on the suit again to do a bit of sub teaching, going to the local high school and then having a naughty classroom PTSD attack.
"Baby, I though you were the cong!"
289 scenes total this year.......46 were Naughty America. Somehow that seems like less than 30-40 percent, but I am no math major.
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#381932 - 12/21/08 07:46 PM
Re: Naughty America
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 589
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Quote:
Quote:
If Naughty America goes belly up, thats probably 30-40% of Christian's income right there.
289 scenes total this year.......46 were Naughty America. Somehow that seems like less than 30-40 percent, but I am no math major. Unlikely, but that's how it could be done.
I am not a math major either, but technically, that could still be 30%-40% of Christian's income IF each Naughty America scene paid double the majority of each of his other scenes.
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#381933 - 12/21/08 08:01 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
meh for the internet being the future of porn.
Not to say that it is not....but the fact of the matter is that it really "IS"....
Let’s face facts….DVD is pretty much DEAD….Blu Ray is more for the other side of tinseltown ….no one wants HD of a zitty infested ass….unattractive women who spend HOURS in the makeup chair, with bad boob jobs…..and where 97.5% of their body is inked up..then again…we can now make out on the first run WTF the tattoo says!…..were perfectly content with the low quality as it is now….adds to the mystery….
What is not it total actuality is......bullshit over hyped big baller facades.....
Its time to trim the fat.....Do you really need the office suites in porn culture....no....not really cost effective.....unless your Vivid, Wicked, Digital Playground or Hustler. Where you’re deliberately “wowing” them on just how gaudy your offices are…..
Less overhead....more profit.....
Stop playing like your rich beyond your means.....its crass....unbecoming of yourself.....
If you can only afford X then just be happy with X....don’t get a second mortgage just to let all the hookers know that you got "bling"...the reality of "reality" porn is keepin it real.....
Oh, girl he’s got office space over in Hollywood...Then must be legit...come on let’s go....
For the last time you are not Paramount Pictures or Capitol Records....its fucking porn....nether are you Spielberg, Scorsese or Lucas.
Shoot it in a basement....hotel room....etc....even a van driving around South Florida without tinted windows.....so sad to watch everyone piss away their fortune and end up on the street homeless….begging……sorry pal no sympathy from me……
Bling is reserved specifically for the PW….without their contests to see who has the latest and greatest shit none of you would have girls to shoot and whatever is left of an economy would be totally in the shitter…..
As my uncle Mel Bernstein used say……It's your tree, Frank. You're sitting in it.
You lost me after the first few lines. What's your point?
just a rant mainly on how....the go to the store garbage is out...gone, kaput....sure you be able to buy DVD's online....but you will have to wait till they are shipped....who the fuck has that kind of time.....this is the instant gratification mentality and it is what they want....NOW!
the 'puter...is the easiest distribution network of content.......no waiting...no interaction with people...no getting mugged in the porn stores parking lot...no one writing down license plate number of those who frequent the local shops....
just one more step to a totally cash free society...have plastic or die.
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#381935 - 12/21/08 11:12 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Chronic Masturbator
Registered: 05/06/05
Posts: 1946
Loc: Outer Space
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It's at times like these that I'm glad we never over-expanded ourselves. Our office is still the guest house at my parent's ranch, and the only thing we dumped a lot of money into was our production costs. We've been able to cut that significantly and still produce quality content. Unfortunately we've not been able to shoot as frequently as we did in the past, and have had to resort to licensing some material to supplement our posting schedule, but in comparison to some I've spoken to, we're doing alright. We're shutting down our studio in LA and rebuilding the half-done daylight studio at the ranch, above the office. In a way that's almost better, as we'll be consolidated all in one place. Our crew has downsized a bit too-- for example we don't use our stylist anymore, which means I have to do all the styling myself (thank God we have accrued an enormous wardrobe over the years) and now I do all the processing myself too. So basically I work twice as hard as I did before but that's a hell of a lot better than being out of work.
_________________________
I really try to retain a respectful distance from my models, even when I'm lubing up their pussies.
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#381937 - 12/22/08 12:09 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
^ Holly, you also have the ability to double as the model, too.
now thats my idea of multitasking
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#381940 - 12/23/08 01:05 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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I've seen this before, the look and tone of absolute DREAD when a worker in the sex industry (in my experience this means either a escort or stripper) who is suddenly, for whatever reason, faced with the actual REAL possibility that she might have to get.....*gulp*....a REAL JOB, in order to just survive and live. Now, in these girls cases, it typically involves something like: "In order to maintain custody of....", or "as Part of your probation and rehab...", etc.
But here, now, porn invalids are faced with the previously "easy" lifestyle they have become addled to actually drying up. From Owners faced with having to part with some of their expensive toys, or their wives/whores leaving them because they are no longer "loaded" (Loot-wise, not chemical-wise)...to whores no longer being able to afford their pills, or sleep until 3 pm 4 days a week and get drunk 7 days a week...to anyone else NOT addicted to drugs but simply addicted to laziness having to actually WORK....
Suck it up you degenerates....the solution is simple. Take a year off....NO ONE PRODUCE ANY porn for a whole year...let the perverts and porn addicts of society that feed your engine go into withdrawal...and then start afresh in a year. It's your only hope. And accept the fact you will NEVER EVER reach the heyday you had 5 years ago. [guapo]Them days be done & gone ....[/guapo]
You still might have to work a part time job part of the year, like teachers do, but you will still beable to indulge in your "work" of making sex films and getting paid for it...which in itself, is a form of addiction even though NONE of you will ever admit that.
_________________________
Are you gonna eat that?
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#381943 - 01/08/09 07:57 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Pervert
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 2056
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This is more then just a shift from DVDs to the Internet. What has happened is a fundamental change of the market when it is no longer possible to simply sell collections of porn scenes for money. People can get all porn they want from the tube sites and other pirate sources for free.
_________________________
"If you keep making fun of me, I might just get pissed and not post on here anymore. Start taking me seriously. I'm a student now" Fatja
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#381944 - 01/08/09 10:07 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
This is more then just a shift from DVDs to the Internet. What has happened is a fundamental change of the market when it is no longer possible to simply sell collections of porn scenes for money. People can get all porn they want from the tube sites and other pirate sources for free.
Crocodile is correct...in a piracy-free world, the internet would still take a chunk out of the DVD market simply because it offers various things that some consumers prefer.
It's instantaneous (no driving to the porn store or waiting for the postman to deliver your order) and there is no physical product to store/hide unless you choose to create one yourself by burning it onto disc. The efficiency of the internet business model also means that various way-out-there niches can be explored and capitalised upon, whereas it's a lot harder for everyone in the physical DVD production and distribution chain to take chances when they know they could be stuck with 2,000 copies of something they can't sell. Newer business models, such as those employed by sites like Clips4Sale, further serve to make micro-niche experimentation relatively risk free for all involved.
However, in the real world, piracy is clawing a chunk out of both markets, and thus DVD is on the receiving end of a double whammy from both legitimate and illegitimate competition. It's the proverbial one-two sucker punch that has put the physical medium/business model on the ropes, figuratively speaking.
I stand by my contention that porn is more popular than it has ever been, but the problem remains how to capitalise, or more appropriately monetize, upon this newfound ubiquity. As of now, the industry certainly hasn't got to grips with it yet.
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#381945 - 01/08/09 11:26 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Hanging a clock in my Bathroom
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Quote:
Quote:
This is more then just a shift from DVDs to the Internet. What has happened is a fundamental change of the market when it is no longer possible to simply sell collections of porn scenes for money. People can get all porn they want from the tube sites and other pirate sources for free.
Crocodile is correct...in a piracy-free world, the internet would still take a chunk out of the DVD market simply because it offers various things that some consumers prefer.
It's instantaneous (no driving to the porn store or waiting for the postman to deliver your order) and there is no physical product to store/hide unless you choose to create one yourself by burning it onto disc. The efficiency of the internet business model also means that various way-out-there niches can be explored and capitalised upon, whereas it's a lot harder for everyone in the physical DVD production and distribution chain to take chances when they know they could be stuck with 2,000 copies of something they can't sell. Newer business models, such as those employed by sites like Clips4Sale, further serve to make micro-niche experimentation relatively risk free for all involved.
However, in the real world, piracy is clawing a chunk out of both markets, and thus DVD is on the receiving end of a double whammy from both legitimate and illegitimate competition. It's the proverbial one-two sucker punch that has put the physical medium/business model on the ropes, figuratively speaking.
I stand by my contention that porn is more popular than it has ever been, but the problem remains how to capitalise, or more appropriately monetize, upon this newfound ubiquity. As of now, the industry certainly hasn't got to grips with it yet.
I don't disagree with either of you, but after all these years i think - and this is just an opinion - that getting rid of piracy just isn't feasible.. It's all to easy even now to break DRM protection on content.
And i do agree with your that porn is still as popular as ever. But i do believe that there is some inner thought required by the industry as a whole, especially for Porn producers. Actually making a physical product makes no sense these days. Whether its a combination of shame or laziness that keep people out of Porn shops is kind of moot at this point. Consumers - such as myself are staying away in droves.
On the production side the actual people who make the porn we watch are going to come to a realization that box covers, award shows and the usual crap that they spend money on doesn't matter to your average perv. Personally i think it will hit production companies harder in the long more than the talent. While they're may be plenty of girls (and guys) willing to screw on camera the producers, if what i think is going to happen - does happen - . They will have to offer bigger incentive for the people involved to do it, ie. Producers aren't going to offer people burger flipping salaries for taking two dicks in your ass. Additionally they will likely have to take an honest interest in the talent and the talent will have to keep in mind that the better they work for the producers, the more jobs they might get- ergo more $$$
All at the same time as offering a product that is attractive and cheap enough to have the average consumer to drop a few bucks to down load some porn. I alluded to this before but there will always be piracy, the trick is to entice enough people to actually plonk down their cash for a bit of slap-and-tickle (so to speak)
The other thing that will likely have to happen is that the drama we see everyday will have to come under control and the idea that the porn business is in fact a business will have to prevail. Blow ups like Lucy Lee and Chasey Lain and the various drug infused disasters will not only be talked about , but an active effort made to really discourage an unprofessional behavior patter. Also the seemingly ongoing serious issues like Chico Wang will have to be stopped in their tracks, it's hard enough for some of the girls to do this work without asshats like the late Mr Wang running around with the tacit and sometimes open approval of the industry. The producers will have to act like business people and the pornsters will actually have to act less like Diva's and more like professionals. Which is not to say that some or many don't, but I certainly have the feeling that the drama we see here on this and other boards probably represents a minor percentage of what actually goes on.
People have been wanting porn to go 'mainstream' for a long long time now. And perhaps the oncoming crash of the current porn system will help that along. Since the early 70's Porn has been seen on the 'edge', some people really loved it some people really hated, some people just took some enjoyment out of it. Many new cultural invocations which we're once cutting edge are considered everyday now, rock music being the one i can think of right off the top of my head, in the fifties it was scandalous, today it's hard to get by shocked by anything in the music industry. I think pornography is on that trail now, by the fact that it has become part of our everyday life whether we know it or not.
By the way, try to do something about all the religious nuts down there, whether it's Scientology, Islam , Christianity or whatever, if you have kids have them look at any situation with a rational response as opposed to believing in a giant Space Daddy, trust me your country will be better for it.
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#381946 - 01/08/09 02:59 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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I don't disagree with either of you, but after all these years i think - and this is just an opinion - that getting rid of piracy just isn't feasible.. It's all to easy even now to break DRM protection on content.
Very true...it's the same with home or car security as well. Ultimately, if they (thieves/burglars/pirates) want in, then they'll get in somehow. The trick is to make it as hard as possible so as to deter them to the extent that they move on to some other target. Whether this means going after uploaders, downloaders, the facilitators inbetween or all three remains to be seen, but doing something has to be better than doing nothing, AKA fiddling while San Fernando Valley burns.
I should point out that said 'action' needn't necessarily be limited strictly to the punitive type either...efforts could be made to reward those who pay for their product, such as a loyalty scheme, mail-in incentives, or anything that adds value to the package that you won't get if you download it illegally.
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And i do agree with your that porn is still as popular as ever. But i do believe that there is some inner thought required by the industry as a whole, especially for Porn producers. Actually making a physical product makes no sense these days. Whether its a combination of shame or laziness that keep people out of Porn shops is kind of moot at this point. Consumers - such as myself are staying away in droves.
Firstly, I'm not saying porn is as popular as ever...I'm saying it is more popular than ever. The problem is that a huge chunk of this newly-found audience seems to have a distinct problem with paying to watch porn, and ample opportunity to get it for free. Ergo, this bigger than ever audience doesn't equate to bigger than ever sales figures.
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On the production side the actual people who make the porn we watch are going to come to a realization that box covers, award shows and the usual crap that they spend money on doesn't matter to your average perv. Personally i think it will hit production companies harder in the long more than the talent.
Boxcovers matter a lot more for feature producers, but that is an almost entirely different market in terms of audience aimed at (mostly couples) and methods of distribution (Cable, Softcore, as well as DVD)...and yes, these customers pay cash money rather than torrent it. Some people want the fancy packaging, and I am one of them.
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While they're may be plenty of girls (and guys) willing to screw on camera the producers, if what i think is going to happen - does happen - . They will have to offer bigger incentive for the people involved to do it, ie. Producers aren't going to offer people burger flipping salaries for taking two dicks in your ass.
As I have said previously in the 'Tube Sites' thread in the Web forum, I'd like to see a more meritocratic approach to porn salaries...if (for example) Jenna Haze sells 100 times as many downloads or disks as Katja Kassin, then I think it's only fair she get 100 times the money Katja Kassin gets, rather than a standard one-size-fits-all industry rate. The only way this will come about is by switching to a pay-per-clip system where there is no ambiguity, and individual sales and royalties can be easily tracked.
Quote:
Additionally they will likely have to take an honest interest in the talent and the talent will have to keep in mind that the better they work for the producers, the more jobs they might get- ergo more $$$
I'm all for better working conditions and pay for the performers, as I believe this will in turn lead to a better calibre or quality of performer joining the industry. With sites like Clips4Sale and their ilk, there is a great opportunity for the performer to become the producer in a relatively risk-free environment. Sure, it will more than likely be amateurish crap, but people can overlook that if they're interested in the girl involved...plus a lot of so-called 'professional' porn is also amateurish crap, so the difference could be very minimal.
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All at the same time as offering a product that is attractive and cheap enough to have the average consumer to drop a few bucks to down load some porn. I alluded to this before but there will always be piracy, the trick is to entice enough people to actually plonk down their cash for a bit of slap-and-tickle (so to speak)
I'd like to see a producer offer quality content at dirt cheap prices just to see if the "pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap" philosophy that benefits a lot of larger retailers could work in porn. It would probably require some sort of micropayment system attached to it, as the credit card companies just aren't interested below a certain amount.
The only drawback is that there are plenty of sites that offer super cheap 2-day trials, but they still get their content pirated, so I don't know if this is the answer.
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The other thing that will likely have to happen is that the drama we see everyday will have to come under control and the idea that the porn business is in fact a business will have to prevail. Blow ups like Lucy Lee and Chasey Lain and the various drug infused disasters will not only be talked about , but an active effort made to really discourage an unprofessional behavior patter. Also the seemingly ongoing serious issues like Chico Wang will have to be stopped in their tracks, it's hard enough for some of the girls to do this work without asshats like the late Mr Wang running around with the tacit and sometimes open approval of the industry. The producers will have to act like business people and the pornsters will actually have to act less like Diva's and more like professionals. Which is not to say that some or many don't, but I certainly have the feeling that the drama we see here on this and other boards probably represents a minor percentage of what actually goes on.
Again, I'd love to see the industry be more professional, but the truth is it lacks any form of coherent leadership. I'd like to see unified sales charts based on actual solid figures, and perhaps some sort of packaging review council that would stamp out (or serve to allay customer fears about) misleading sleeves. Companies that pull the 'On the box but not in the movie' scam are creating tomorrow's pirates, namely hitherto paying customers who are now once bitten, twice shy when it comes to spending money on porn again.
Quote:
People have been wanting porn to go 'mainstream' for a long long time now. And perhaps the oncoming crash of the current porn system will help that along. Since the early 70's Porn has been seen on the 'edge', some people really loved it some people really hated, some people just took some enjoyment out of it. Many new cultural invocations which we're once cutting edge are considered everyday now, rock music being the one i can think of right off the top of my head, in the fifties it was scandalous, today it's hard to get by shocked by anything in the music industry. I think pornography is on that trail now, by the fact that it has become part of our everyday life whether we know it or not.
Totally agree...as I said: More popular than ever before. I'll be interested to see how Sasha Grey does in 'The Girlfriend Experience', but it's safe to say she's already putting together a nice little mainstream portfolio. It's rather hypocritical that Paris Hilton can suck cock on video and be mainstream, yet a porn chick is treated like some kind of pariah. Again, better quality performers can only help with porn's push, but you aren't going to attract them until you can seriously improve working conditions and earning potential...oh look, we're back to square one again!
Quote:
By the way, try to do something about all the religious nuts down there, whether it's Scientology, Islam , Christianity or whatever, if you have kids have them look at any situation with a rational response as opposed to believing in a giant Space Daddy, trust me your country will be better for it.
You dare to question Allah? Die, Infidel!
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#381947 - 01/08/09 04:53 PM
Re: Naughty America
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 251
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All at the same time as offering a product that is attractive and cheap enough to have the average consumer to drop a few bucks to down load some porn. I alluded to this before but there will always be piracy, the trick is to entice enough people to actually plonk down their cash for a bit of slap-and-tickle (so to speak)
I believe this is true. There is an inundation of generic porn and it would behoove producers to make a better product that would differentiate them and attract/retain customers. Whether that means working a fetish niche, quality niche, or just producing distinctive, higher quality scenes, those that want to stay around are going to have to work for it.
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The producers will have to act like business people and the pornsters will actually have to act less like Diva's and more like professionals. Which is not to say that some or many don't, but I certainly have the feeling that the drama we see here on this and other boards probably represents a minor percentage of what actually goes on.
This is ignoring a major reason why many of them are in this industry: many of them don't have good professional skills and certainly not enough to make this kind of money anywhere else. Those who do probably stand out and should be more able to succeed in the industry. Nonetheless, pornography generally is a career choice of last resort. Perhaps it has to do with the social stigma that affects sex workers.
_________________________
"I always find it funny when chicks say that, because I hate sex but I still have it. Afterwards, I hate myself, I feel awful, dirty and sometimes cry. But it's worth it, if only to feel a little human every now and then."
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#381948 - 01/09/09 03:49 AM
Re: Naughty America
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 99
Loc: Hanging a clock in my Bathroom
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Very true...it's the same with home or car security as well. Ultimately, if they (thieves/burglars/pirates) want in, then they'll get in somehow. The trick is to make it as hard as possible so as to deter them to the extent that they move on to some other target. Whether this means going after uploaders, downloaders, the facilitators inbetween or all three remains to be seen, but doing something has to be better than doing nothing, AKA fiddling while San Fernando Valley burns.
To me it seems a question of resources, even now Apple is taking the DRM off of their products and producers of Movies and CD don't even bother these to to try to copyright their content for the simple reason is that withing a few days a new way burning through the latest DRM software. It's always possible to try to go after hosters , we all know about rapidshare etc etc. But i just wonder how much it would actually net in returns of financial income flow to the industry. When the music industry went after Kazaa it was initially very successful, and yet sharing sights are still there.
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I should point out that said 'action' needn't necessarily be limited strictly to the punitive type either...efforts could be made to reward those who pay for their product, such as a loyalty scheme, mail-in incentives, or anything that adds value to the package that you won't get if you download it illegally.
Totally agree here. Using torrent sites and their brethren isn't for me. I like to have my computer secure and i don't like the idea of anyone having a look inside. Some people don't mind it but i would rather have easy and economically feasible access to the porn i want. Putting some added value into long time membership is a good place to start, it would have to be measured against cost benefit though
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Firstly, I'm not saying porn is as popular as ever...I'm saying it is more popular than ever. The problem is that a huge chunk of this newly-found audience seems to have a distinct problem with paying to watch porn, and ample opportunity to get it for free. Ergo, this bigger than ever audience doesn't equate to bigger than ever sales figures.
Again agree, i don't have the exact numbers of the actual dollars that are generated by the industry so i hedged a little on the popularity of it. For people who have first hand access to the numbers i would bow to their knowledge. We hear about 'billions' , and i agree it probably is in that range. But at the same time the word 'pornography' covers a lot of ground and where this money is coming from and going to is a little hard to gauge.
As for paying for porn , I've never had an issue with it. I've got a membership or two and i switch them around. So for me at least the issue of being a non-payer is moot, but i do understand where you're coming from. But i have a real practical side, going after pirates etc etc is worth exploring but i think in the end it would become an unwinnable battle. To me the solution the problem is to make pron more accessible not less. Taking a 'ipods' approach may be the best way forward (not to be confused with the current “Iporn” business i wouldn't trust that company whatsoever – and it has nothing to with content)
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Boxcovers matter a lot more for feature producers, but that is an almost entirely different market in terms of audience aimed at (mostly couples) and methods of distribution (Cable, Softcore, as well as DVD)...and yes, these customers pay cash money rather than torrent it. Some people want the fancy packaging, and I am one of them.
Fair enough, there may be still a market for actual physical porn on DVD or Blu-Ray, it isn't for me, but if some companies can produce and sell it with a decent profit margin I'm all for it. Part of the issue with DVD's right now is that not so long ago there were so many companies making so many DVD's that the market essentially became flooded. This caused some blow-black with DVD's being returned to the distributor who had already shelled out the cost of making them in the first place. In the long run i don't think porn on DVD has legs but i can see where you're coming from. But for me paying online and getting online is much better and easier/ One of the issues i have with DVD's as opposed to membership sites is that some on a certain DVD there may only be one girl or two that i might want to see, while not saying that any of the other Talent is bad. It's a question of individual sexuality for me. I would rather be able to go to one of my sights and pick and choose.
Again I'm not saying that DVD's are a bad idea, i just don't know how the cost/benefit ratio holds up in face of competition from porn membership sights
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As I have said previously in the 'Tube Sites' thread in the Web forum, I'd like to see a more meritocratic approach to porn salaries...if (for example) Jenna Haze sells 100 times as many downloads or disks as Katja Kassin, then I think it's only fair she get 100 times the money Katja Kassin gets, rather than a standard one-size-fits-all industry rate. The only way this will come about is by switching to a pay-per-clip system where there is no ambiguity, and individual sales and royalties can be easily tracked.
Totally agree, the only thing i might add in line with my previous post of a symbiotic working relationship with the talent and producers is that the real numbers be available and transparent to both sides. Quote:
I'm all for better working conditions and pay for the performers, as I believe this will in turn lead to a better calibre or quality of performer joining the industry. With sites like Clips4Sale and their ilk, there is a great opportunity for the performer to become the producer in a relatively risk-free environment. Sure, it will more than likely be amateurish crap, but people can overlook that if they're interested in the girl involved...plus a lot of so-called 'professional' porn is also amateurish crap, so the difference could be very minimal.
Agree,.
Quote:
I'd like to see a producer offer quality content at dirt cheap prices just to see if the "pile 'em high and sell 'em cheap" philosophy that benefits a lot of larger retailers could work in porn. It would probably require some sort of micropayment system attached to it, as the credit card companies just aren't interested below a certain amount.
The only drawback is that there are plenty of sites that offer super cheap 2-day trials, but they still get their content pirated, so I don't know if this is the answer.
Micropayment may be the way that we are going, presumably if I'm right with porn moving into more the culture of north America it won't be so hard to attract quality talent.
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Again, I'd love to see the industry be more professional, but the truth is it lacks any form of coherent leadership. I'd like to see unified sales charts based on actual solid figures, and perhaps some sort of packaging review council that would stamp out (or serve to allay customer fears about) misleading sleeves. Companies that pull the 'On the box but not in the movie' scam are creating tomorrow's pirates, namely hitherto paying customers who are now once bitten, twice shy when it comes to spending money on porn again.
You've got my vote. Porn producers and the talent still seem to be stuck in the mindset of what they're offering “new and exciting”. We have a culture on this continent of being supremely uptight about sex. This is kind of a double-edged sword for the porn industry in that it often sees itself as pushing the envelope of entertainment. Granted republican administration and conservative ones up here have added to that significantly by prosecuting average porn producers for- shocking as it is – making porn. So what we have is almost a schizophrenic idea or porn. The government tells us that it's bad, and on the surface we agree, but at the same time we want to see 'why' it's so bad, and the industry dutifully gives us what we want and then the circle begins. Because of this cycle (and others) some producers go a bit further (for a variety or reason – mostly money) and come to the attention of the 'authorities' . Max being the latest example
Max has been made a target not because what he was doing was 'wrong' in the legal sense (i think) but because he decided to take his content that pushed that envelope a little further than most porn producers do. As a result while he may present himself as a victim, in effect he was creating a situation that would inevitably lead him to being the easiest target, and now has had a chilling effect on the industry as a whole. The odd thing is that while he may or may not have thought of himself as a positive force for the industry, the reality now is that he has become a liability. There are likely people who know Max here and I'm curious as to whether he or others had actually thought this situation through, the farther you decide to go in terms of content, the farther and deeper you have to plan ahead for what could be a a very legal rough ride.
That's one aspect of the business, the other is for what of a lack of a better term I'll call 'mainstream porn' . There is an issue with presentation not matching up to the content. Most producers have a library of content that they would like to use but don't seem to have a vehicle for. So what sometimes happen what you see on the box is not what you see on the disc.
There might be a dual track system available , with content that you can't seem to use (for whatever reason) it might be better to offer both the DVD and online version of the same thing. Preferably on a scene by scene basis. That happens now sometimes but i think that if the porn producers would actually communicate with each other, their talent and most importantly the paying customer you would see less and less of this. When you have a situation where the customers feel ripped off it has a ripple effect – at least it should – all the way back to the producers. To my eyes it's a question of honesty, and perhaps the most vital aspect of that is transparency
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Totally agree...as I said: More popular than ever before. I'll be interested to see how Sasha Grey does in 'The Girlfriend Experience', but it's safe to say she's already putting together a nice little mainstream portfolio. It's rather hypocritical that Paris Hilton can suck cock on video and be mainstream, yet a porn chick is treated like some kind of pariah. Again, better quality performers can only help with porn's push, but you aren't going to attract them until you can seriously improve working conditions and earning potential...oh look, we're back to square one again!
This goes back a bit to our obsession with the sex act. We want and don't want it at the same time. Or at least we want to be seen not wanting it , but have the ability to 'see it' hassle free. For the more repressed the wronger it seems, the better it is. What i think is required is for some people within the industry to actually go out and talk frankly about the industry, sex and our compulsion with it. Some do already of course but not nearly enough. We need more though. Sex can still be nasty if you like it nasty, but it shouldn't be something you should be afraid to admit.
When the talent feels like their appreciated not just by the fans who Fap to them, but the companies producing the porn, then i think talent involved wouldn't be as liable to get into situations that reflect badly on them and the industry as a whole.
Hopefully if I'm right with coming porn crises and what were talking about comes about, we can look at porn in a different light.
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You dare to question Allah? Die, Infidel!
Osama can toss my salad, not that there is anything wrong with that
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