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#381337 - 12/16/08 12:10 PM
The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Pervert
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 2058
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#381338 - 12/16/08 12:56 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Pervert
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 2056
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lol Good one Mark!
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"If you keep making fun of me, I might just get pissed and not post on here anymore. Start taking me seriously. I'm a student now" Fatja
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#381339 - 12/16/08 12:59 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 3812
Loc: Neither here, nor there.
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We're fucked without domestic automakers, plain and simple. It's the biggest investment the average American will buy in their lifetime other than real estate, and it would truly be a shame to see that money go overseas...not to mention all of the jobs that will disappear if they go under. This subject really fucking pisses me off, so that's all I'm fucking saying about it.
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"You know this is XXXPornTalk.com right? You sound like an ADT person. I want to poop on you." -Malice
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#381340 - 12/16/08 01:32 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Pervert
Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 2056
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Quote:
We're fucked without domestic automakers, plain and simple. It's the biggest investment the average American will buy in their lifetime other than real estate, and it would truly be a shame to see that money go overseas...
Why? As long as you get a cheaper and better car for your money why do you care if the money goes to Wagoner's, Cho's or Winterkorn's pocket?
Quote:
not to mention all of the jobs that will disappear if they go under.
On the contrary, capital and labor will be freed for viable, healthy business start-up.
Quote:
This subject really fucking pisses me off, so that's all I'm fucking saying about it.
That's exactly the problem. Instead of trying to find realistic, rational solutions for the real problems(how to prevent the companies from failing now, when it will be disastrous for the American economy. How to help Ford survive, how to keep as many jobs in America as possible, how to protect the customers of failed companies) the Americans are pissed off and scared so much they are wiling to actually support throwing good money after bad. That's exactly what losers like Wagoner, Nardeli and Gettelfinger want.
_________________________
"If you keep making fun of me, I might just get pissed and not post on here anymore. Start taking me seriously. I'm a student now" Fatja
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#381341 - 12/16/08 02:25 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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Quote:
We're fucked without domestic automakers, plain and simple. It's the biggest investment the average American will buy in their lifetime other than real estate, and it would truly be a shame to see that money go overseas...not to mention all of the jobs that will disappear if they go under. This subject really fucking pisses me off, so that's all I'm fucking saying about it.
First off H2c already addressed this elsewhere. It seems Ford can float the boat. For now.
Now consider how the rest of the world does it. Almost every foreign car maker is subsidized by their government. Japan, Germany etc.
The "foreign" cars made here, southern based, non union, and foreign owned, are kicking Detroits ass. It seems that better cars for less $ in a free market is going to cost the American taxpayer.
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i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#381343 - 12/16/08 03:47 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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Lou,
Every country subsidizes its own industries to some extent. I'm not completely up to speed with the situation in the US or Japan, but I do know how it works in Europe (incl. UK). It's not a direct flow of money, because it's not allowed by the EU, but there are always ways around that.
In Germany, it's definitely NOT common practice to sponsor the automotive industry.
Just my 2.5 eurocents
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The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#381344 - 12/16/08 03:50 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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That sucks, taint. I hate to see anyone lose their jobs.
Quick question though.
Do you consider yourself "skilled labor"?. Describe your job in general terms and your benefits. I'm not asking for specifics but you're obviously Union. Yes?
_________________________
i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#381348 - 12/16/08 05:49 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Pervert
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 2058
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Quote:
I'm someone who will most likely lose their job if GM or Chrysler go under, so anyone against the bridge loan "FUCK YOU!"
The Japaneses car's built in the south are just as big hunks of shit as the American ones built in the Rust Belt, its just that the Japs don't have to deal with retiree health care(for both union and non-union retirees) and they fire anyone suspected of bringing up union talk.
It's hard to believe a Toyota built in the south is as big a hunk of shit as a Buick built in Detroit, but granted that may be an issue of perception if quality has really improved with American cars like some reports claim. Unfortunately, perception still weighs heavy into buying decisions for most people, and it takes a long time to turn it around. This latest bailout begging of the big 3 are only validating existing poor public perception.
The problems have been lurking in the lake a long time before economic downturn drained the lake to expose it: take the union auto worker making $50 per hour to fasten bolts on a line, when there's not much demand for the car. The economics are upside down here for an employer trying to compete in a "free market" when they've also got a gun to their head to use union workers a/k/a "socialized labor". Something's got to give, no?
The whole country is having to compromise right now whether they like it or not, yet unions are showing up with the old "all or nothing" playbook to a game of "bend or break". The vote down of the bailout last week is due to unions not wanting to make any concessions as usual, and the deal broke.
Hearing individual accounts of the "every man" autoworker and his family at risk of losing their livelihood are no doubt sad, but as a group they're having trouble finding the sympathy they feel they deserve because everyone else is hurting too, and in many cases even more so.
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#381349 - 12/16/08 06:16 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 510
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#381350 - 12/16/08 06:18 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 9958
Loc: fortified
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Fucken well said Mark...   I'd be more than happy to buy an American car that offered everything the current model I drive now has, but it doesn't exist. I have no clue what Gunther and Klaus got paid per hour to build my car but dear god they did a fucken excellent job!. From my perspective Mark, the all or nothing stubborness will leave them in ass-backwards Detroit, where they belong.
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i just lock, load, and regret. - jamesn
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#381353 - 12/16/08 08:22 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Max Hardcore Prison Bitch
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 398
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Quote:
That sucks, taint. I hate to see anyone lose their jobs.
Quick question though.
Do you consider yourself "skilled labor"?. Describe your job in general terms and your benefits. I'm not asking for specifics but you're obviously Union. Yes?
I'm white collar non-union at a company(lets call it Sterling, Cooper) that will have 70% of their business go away if GM and Chrysler go under, health benefits are great but the retirement plan is so so.
My only hope is that since I deal with non-automotive things that I won't get laid off but if the company closes up shop I'm fucked. I really don't want to have to move back to Pittsburgh and work in my Uncle's Pizza Shop, which is now run by his asshole son in-law.
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#381354 - 12/16/08 09:04 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Ilix_Glanzer
Quote:
Fuck patriotism, I am going with the choice that will save me more money.
You're not American ya fucken imbecile. Think before you type.
Based on the above post and what we know about your flawed
heritage, ass-mite, in order for you to get anywhere you'll need to have our say so.
If you behave yourself and don't wet the bed again, you can go on an excursion with the rest of the patients to the Zoo next week, would you like that panzertard?.
I think that you Americans should be exploited by ex-commies because you are used being capitalist.
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#381355 - 12/16/08 09:08 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Panzer, if it weren't for capiltalism, you wouldn't be able to shop on ebay because there would be no free market economy nor competition, so stfu.
_________________________
"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#381356 - 12/16/08 09:11 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Panzer, if it weren't for capiltalism, you wouldn't be able to shop on ebay because there would be no free market economy nor competition, so stfu.
I don't care and I won't care. I think that the profit should go to the greedy Russians and that the honest Americans should be kept quiet on a leash for the best to all.
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#381358 - 12/17/08 09:24 AM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The American government subsides things like for-instance....say Farm Subsidies. So with that theory EVERYTHING should be subsidized.
In the early 1980’s recession U. S. Steel closed a lot of its plants as well as other steel manufacturers shuttered...naturally jobs went overseas.....Those employees that lost their jobs were retrained and relocated elsewhere to do other things.
Didn’t Michael Moore direct a film in 1989 called Roger & Me depicting what GM had done under their then CEO Roger Smith to the area of Flint, Michigan....too many tell tale signs.....
Let them go bankrupt.....see what happens from there....
We didn’t rescue main street as Wal Mart closed many local drug/hardware/grocery stores…it’s absolutely survival of the fittest…..and the big 3 are sloppy outmoded behemoths…way behind in the times. If you had joined the armed forces Uncle Sam would kindly let you go out of your contract…..and you would be given a dishonorable discharge for failure to adapt.
What the big 3 have accomplished over the course of the years is a colossal failure to adapt. Now why again should we keep throwing good money after bad? It’s a money pit.
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#381359 - 12/17/08 09:57 AM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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Nice vid, Browser.
It's funny to hear the GM lady talk about emissions. I've worked very extensively with Vauxhall and Opel (both GM). They don't give a flying fuck about emissions. It's at lowest possible point on their priority lists.
I agree with Dino: why would you again invest billions of US dollars in an industry that has shown more than once that it's incapable of re-inventing itself or its products?
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#381360 - 12/17/08 12:49 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer
Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: SoCal
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A Modern Parable.
A Japanese company (Toyota) and an American company (Ford Motor) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.
On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.
Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.
They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.
Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.
They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to "equal the competition" and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and team work posters.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India.
Sadly, the End.
Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US, claiming they can't make money paying American wages.
TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US. The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.
Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses, and flying in private jets...
_________________________
I'd rather be ignorant than stupid.
Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge which is easily correctable through education.
Stupidity implies an inability to learn.
Therefore; ignorance is temporary, stupidity is forever!
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#381361 - 12/17/08 02:50 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
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^^ Welcome back, sir! Your own parable?
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.
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#381362 - 12/17/08 03:39 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars..."
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Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer
Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: SoCal
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^^No, not mine, but appropriate I thought.
Where's a Lido Anthony Iacocca when you need one?
_________________________
I'd rather be ignorant than stupid.
Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge which is easily correctable through education.
Stupidity implies an inability to learn.
Therefore; ignorance is temporary, stupidity is forever!
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#381363 - 12/17/08 06:12 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 14160
Loc: NYC
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Welcome back, Bad Habit! But I thought your other car was a broom?
_________________________
"What I do know is that if Karen Carpenter and Mama Cass Elliot had shared that sandwich they'd both be alive today." -Michael K
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#381364 - 12/17/08 09:06 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
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Quote:
Didn’t Michael Moore direct a film in 1989 called Roger & Me depicting what GM had done under their then CEO Roger Smith to the area of Flint, Michigan....too many tell tale signs.....
Yes, but Michael Moore got it completely backwards (surprise, surprise). Smith, as it turns out, recognized the problem that GM was uncompetitive and losing badly and he tried to do something - many things - about it. Some of the things he tried to do were right (Saturn) and others were a colossal waste of money, but he knew then that changes had to be made or else ... GM would wind up where it is today.
Unfortunately Smith didn't succeed. Worse, nobody after him even tried.
Michael Moore focused on the problems he saw without realizing they were created by decisions made a quarter-century earlier and instead blamed Smith, who was actually trying to address problems that could (nearly?) kill the company a quarter century later.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock
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#381367 - 12/17/08 09:44 PM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe I should design my own car? I would probably just copy an already developed car that is very sucessful, change some things here and there and will give it a different name.
Sorry. The Yugo was already invented.
I have a cool bunch of ideas for different car models: X1, Urban, Sport, General.
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#381371 - 12/18/08 08:26 AM
Re: The Bailout: "You wouldn't buy our shitty cars
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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Quote:
Goldman Sachs is now using bailout funds for employee bonuses.  
The incompetence of the Bush Admin and everything it does knows no ends. They give all this money away, BUT forget to attach the REQUIREMENT that the receivers spend it on what was intended. Unfucking real....
Dont blame Goldman's executives, or AIG's, or any other executives who blew 100s of billions and ruined the world's economy....they are the greedy, amoral, soulless arrogant JEWISH pricks who caused the mess, if you are just going to give them money and STOP there, what do you expect?
George Bush and his supporting cast are indeed the most pathetic rulers we have had since Buchanan. Worse than Herbert Hoover...Hoover gets a small pass for at least having the excuse of being in a UNPRECEDENTED situation for which he had no basis to gauge decisions upon. The current admin at least has the past example of the depression, and many others, to yield discernment and understanding of what to do and what NOT to do. And they still fuck it up....
it's like when a homeless buma sks you for 10 bucks to buy a meal for himself. The BEST thing to do is to BUY the meal for the bum so you KNOW the money goes to where it should. Thats the same principle at work with these fucking investment firms. They are drug addicts, addicted to money and the gullibility of people.
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