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Then you describe yourself as LIBERTARIAN To deny people the right to have children is is the grossest human rights violation there is.


How can you possibly reconcile those two positions. You cant tell the U.S. government to stay out of your bedroom, and at the same time INSIST that other governments do exactly that before they recieve your money.

Or is it that your true position is more like, I want everyhing i want and i deserve evverything I want, and to hell with everyone else because I want it.




No. If your rights require financial subsidy it's not your "right". If it requires my money for you to express your "rights", I should get a say in your actions.

You want 50 kids and it won't cost me a dime? Great!

If you cannot afford a lifestyle choice, why should I be required to subsidize it?

I don't think you have the right to have children if you cannot support them. Sorry. Once again, that's someone else's "right" that compels for my compliance. It interferes in my Life.

Their "right" directly costs me money I'd rather spend elsewhere. That's sticking their hand directly into my pocket to pay for their choices.

If you can't afford a kid and you elect to have one anyway, I can choose not to help you. If others feel that you should, they set up foundations, put up their money and leave me out.

Max isn't asking for federal subsidy or tax breaks to make his porn. The federal government should not be under any obligation to provide him with money to pursue his "art". They should not pay for DVDs for people who want to watch his porn.

If such things existed, in my opinion opponents of this lifestyle choice could rightfully say "I don't want to pay for that".


Can you understand the difference, at long last?




I said I was Libertarian on free speech. As was evidenced in the array of canidates I've supported, my views are not contrained to any one ideology.

Having kids isn't speech or art or expression.

I think that if developing countries controlled their population, they would get out of poverty faster. At this rate, they'll never get out of poverty. Controlling population is being mature and responsible.

Most middle-class Americans limit the number of children to what they can afford. There's no reason that cannot happen in the third world.


EDIT: btw, I'm not FORCING them to stop having kids. I'm just not going to pay for them. They can still "express themselves" and have as many as they want ... WITHOUT MY MONEY.

They can do what they want ...
I can do what I want ...

Perfect.



You seem tovequate exercising fundamental human rights with having money. Personally, I think we should stop all forieghn aid, but thats another issue.

But nowhere in your reply do you answer the question, What sould those other governments do to "control their population" as YOU say. Forced steriliZation, forced abortions(welcome to china,fatman)....As a matter of fact, in your reply you dont evenmention YOUR phrase,"control the poplulation'

I'm sorry, but in my book your position on any FREEDOM issues is hugely compromised when you even suggest that government should 'control the poulaion.'

You say your "views are not constrained to one ideology" I agree. It alson seems that you embrace the ideology of communist china when it comes to 'population control." Then in your response you ssy,"Im not forcing them to stop having kids......." Well genius, what do you think government population control is?


1. Why did you not mention population control in your backpeddle response?

2. What means do you suggest ohter countries take to control their population?(criminalize people for having too many childre, forced sterilizations and abortions)


3. Does anyone here agree with Fatman, that governmetns should 'control the populaion'?



Hey fatman, should MY tax dollars pay for some other kids education? I dont have kids, so should I have to give MY money to public schools to educate other peopls kids?

I think the overall selfishness, and ME first at all costs, of your so called political ideology, as unsustainable as it is(freedom for ME poulation control for you), is typical of the extreme left, and you would be better suited to explore YOUR own hypocrisy.


And regarding "sticking their hands into my pockets<' we all play for things we dontl like with our taxes,, Did you ever have a kid in pulic schools, or did you or anyone you know ever go to public schools? How do you feel about the people who pay for their own kids to go to private school, but also have to pay for your kids to go to public school?Heck, according to your belief, if they cant afford to educate their own kids then, like YOU said, I DONT THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CANT AFFORD THEM." Ah yes, the more money you have, the more rights you have. Who here agrees with that? And who makes that desicion? YOU!!!! Oh wait, you want the government to make that decision.(population control).


Oh wait, Im sorry, you did mention population control in your reply..."I think that if developing countries CONTROLLED their population they would get out of poverty faster? (how does this statement correlate to your statement.."I;m not forcing them to stop haveing kids.) Again I ask you, o mister libertarian defender of freedom, exactly how should these governments 'control the population? Should they use 'any means necessary?'

Freedom and human rights for all(that is all who can AFFORD it according to fatman) The last time I cheked the Constitiution didnt have a pricetag. YOUR ideology is far scarier than the religious right, in my opinion. By any chance, do you speak chinese?