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#328346 - 05/13/08 05:16 AM One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
Quote:

A company banking on drivers' weariness of skyrocketing gasoline prices unveiled a home refinery device on Thursday offering another option: ethanol. E-Fuel Corporation says its EFuel100 MicroFueler can produce up to 35 gallons (132 liters) of ethanol a week that consumers can pump directly into their cars and trucks. There is no combustion inside the device, which runs on a standard household 110- to 220-volt AC power supply (consuming about 150 watts*) and uses a membrane system to distill the sugar, yeast and water solution required to make ethanol rather than combustion heating elements, as commercial ethanol producers do.

Interested drivers in the U.S. can put in their orders now for their own EFuel100 MicroFueler at the company's Web site with a $3,000 down payment toward the total $10,000 tab; the first units are expected to ship some time this fall. The company, which has plants in Los Gatos and Paso Robles, Calif., as well as Hong Kong, also plans to sell MicroFuelers in Brazil, China and the U.K.

The prototype rolled out at a press conference in New York City yesterday is 72 inches (1.8 meters) high, 42 inches (1.1 meters) wide and 72 inches long, but the company says the consumer units are likely to be a bit smaller.

Ethanol fuel is made from a combination of water, yeast and sugar, Tom Quinn, E-Fuel founder and CEO, said at the press conference, adding that the process was no more complicated than what is taught in "third-grade science." The adoption of ethanol has been held back because drivers do not have access to the fuel, he said, pointing out that there are only 1,200 ethanol stations in the U.S., compared with about 176,000 gas stations.

To make ethanol in the EFuel100, feedstock (consisting of sugar and yeast) or discarded liquor is loaded into the device's 200-gallon (757-liter) tank. Using the LCD screen located on the front of the device (next to the pump), the operator places the EFuel100 either in ferment (for feedstock) or distillation (for liquor) mode to begin the process. The EFuel100 is hooked up to a water source—much like one's washing machine or dishwasher is—and regulates the amount of water flowing into its tank to begin the ethanol-conversion process.

Once the feedstock is fermented, the device transfers the solution to its distillation system, where it is vaporized in a vertical column tube and sent through a membrane that separates the alcohol from the water. The distilled vapor is then cooled back into liquid form and sent to the 35-gallon storage tank, from which it can be pumped into an automobile using a 50-foot (15-meter) retractable hose. The process of turning sugar into ethanol fuel takes nearly a week (although alcohol distillation can be done in a matter of hours).

The cost of operating and maintaining the EFuel100 vary, depending on rebates (a $1,000 federal tax credit is available) and the cost of the sugar feedstock—it takes 14 pounds (6.4 kilograms) of feedstock to produce a gallon of ethanol. E-Fuel also offers its Carbon Credit Coupon Program, which will allow its customers to buy discounted E-Fuel–certified sugar feedstock for an estimated 15 to 30 cents per pound, the company said Thursday. One of the company's main objectives with the program is to keep the cost of ethanol less than $1 per gallon.

The company says that families would save a barrel of cash in the long run. It estimates, for instance, that a family will save about $4,200 per year on fuel (assuming gas costs $3.60 per gallon and ethanol costs $1 per gallon) if it has two cars that get 22 miles per gallon (9.3 kilometers per liter) and are driven a total of 34,500 miles (55,500 kilometers) annually. Automobiles do not require their fuel to be 100 percent ethanol, so greater savings are possible if drivers dilute the finished product with water (as long at that mixture contains at least 65 percent ethanol).

E-Fuel chose sugar as its raw material (instead of corn feedstock or cellulose) because of its ease and abundance: corn feedstock or cellulose have to be broken down into sugar before they can be turned into ethanol. But E-Fuel said it plans to eventually build corn and cellulose versions of its microfuelers, although no time frame has been set. A version that uses corn is lower priority, Quinn said, because corn, unlike sugar, is an essential part of the world's food supply. As Bruce Padula, the company's vice president of sales and marketing puts it, "Doctors aren't telling you to eat more sugar." Still, much of the ethanol-producing infrastructure in place is designed to use corn feedstock—corn-based ethanol accounts for most of the total ethanol produced in the U.S. at this time, according to Louisiana State University's Agriculture Center.

However, the company's claims about the environmental friendliness of ethanol are in dispute. E-Fuel touts ethanol as cheaper and more environmentally sound than gasoline, claiming that it produces 85 percent fewer climate change–causing carbon emissions than gasoline. But Mark Jacobson, a Stanford University professor of civil and environmental engineering, says ethanol is no better for air quality. Jacobson last year published a report in Environmental Science & Technology noting that ethanol produces less benzene and butadiene than gasoline, but it releases more formaldehyde and acetaldehyde into the atmosphere.

Although ethanol is made from seemingly innocuous materials (like sugar or corn), it becomes dangerous when broken down in the atmosphere into acetaldehyde and acetic acid (the latter of which is corrosive and irritates the eyes), Jacobson says. "[Ethanol] kills people," he says. "Just like cigarette smoke, you're breathing in particles that are harmful."

Criticism by Jacobson and others against this fuel that many hope will become an alternative to high-priced, foreign-sourced petroleum is an issue E-Fuel and other ethanol backers will have to address, no matter how much cheaper their product is.






LINK

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#328347 - 05/13/08 08:13 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
What's the ATF stance on this device? I can build one way, way cheaper.

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#328348 - 05/13/08 08:55 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
If it's been denatured, can they even step in at all?

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#328349 - 05/13/08 12:29 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Uomo Grassissimo!! Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 14755
Loc: Busy downloading [LEGALLY!]
Quote:

If it's been denatured, can they even step in at all?




Something tells me that they'll find an interpretation that allows them to tax/control/prohibit it. Especially after the contributions, direct and indirect, from Big Oil and Arabs hit.
_________________________
Amo i Gemelli!! wink

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#328350 - 05/13/08 02:30 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Denatured just means it's been made undrinkable by additives. You still have to get licensed by BATF (or whatever it's called these days). I think the article you posted may be a ruse for a plain old booze still. And a good still can be made for much less than 10k.

Here's the law
Quote:

Federal law prohibits the manufacture or production of distilled
spirits in the United States at other than a registered DSP that has
received a permit from

[[Page 26201]]

TTB. While Federal law allows for the limited home production of wine
and beer, no such exemption exists for distilled spirits.




From here. You might could get your plant registered- in fact you likely could, but ethanol from food crops or from crops grown where food could be grown is an inefficient use of resources- you are much better off just making booze.

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#328351 - 05/13/08 03:18 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bad Habit Offline
Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: SoCal
Quote:


The cost of operating and maintaining the EFuel100 vary, depending on rebates (a $1,000 federal tax credit is available) and the cost of the sugar feedstock—it takes 14 pounds (6.4 kilograms) of feedstock to produce a gallon of ethanol. E-Fuel also offers its Carbon Credit Coupon Program, which will allow its customers to buy discounted E-Fuel–certified sugar feedstock for an estimated 15 to 30 cents per pound, the company said Thursday. One of the company's main objectives with the program is to keep the cost of ethanol less than $1 per gallon.





Other than the fact that using ANY kind of food stock as a fuel source during a world wide food shortage is incredibly stupid and selfish, the above numbers just don't add up!

If it takes 14lbs. of sugar to make a gallon, even at the low end of .15 cents a pound (and sugar off the shelf is closer to $1/lbs) it comes out to $2.10 per gallon , NOT the $1/gal the company claims in the very next sentence.
Add in the cost of energy to produce the ethanol and the fact that ethenol is a less efficient form of fuel (20% to 30% less MPG than gasoline), and you're right back to where you started as far as the cost of fueling your vehicle.

And we haven't even started to consider the energy, environmental, and carbon impact made by the farming, transportation, and processing of the basic foodstock into sugars.

Ethenol IS NOT the answer to the fuel crisis.
_________________________
I'd rather be ignorant than stupid. Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge which is easily correctable through education. Stupidity implies an inability to learn. Therefore; ignorance is temporary, stupidity is forever!

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#328352 - 05/13/08 03:40 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
freestylah Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 4856
Loc: The 4th International
Bad Habit wrote:

Quote:

Other than the fact that using ANY kind of food stock as a fuel source during a world wide food shortage is incredibly stupid and selfish, the above numbers just don't add up!
<snip>
Ethenol IS NOT the answer to the fuel crisis.




"Incredibly stupid and selfish" are BIG words, but I agree completely.
I think it's kind of cynical that, in order to protect the environment/save money/_____, we use food to produce fuel. What's the point? That poor folk can starve in a cleaner, healthier environment? (This goes in the direction of criminal behaviour, in my opinion.)

Ethanol is indeed not the answer. Driving less is.
_________________________
The only thing you got that I want, is your suffering.

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#328353 - 05/13/08 04:10 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Uomo Grassissimo!! Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 14755
Loc: Busy downloading [LEGALLY!]
Quote:

"Incredibly stupid and selfish" are BIG words, but I agree completely.




I don't.

If you don't have the resources for kids, you shouldn't have them.

If you can't grow enough food or afford food, don't put more people on the planet. It's destructive, and it's wrong.

But, surely another carbon-based fuel isn't the answer.
_________________________
Amo i Gemelli!! wink

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#328354 - 05/13/08 04:41 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
There is a company in Illinois that says it can make cellulosic ethanol from nearly anything for less than a dollar a gallon. If they can do it, why not use it? A lot of places in the states have no public transportation system, driving less is just not an option.

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#328355 - 05/13/08 04:45 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Quote:

There is a company in Illinois that says it can make cellulosic ethanol from nearly anything for less than a dollar a gallon. If they can do it, why not use it? A lot of places in the states have no public transportation system, driving less is just not an option.




If they can do it for less than a dollar a gallon without subsidies and incentives then let them have at it. We do not need to be subsidizing ethanol as a fuel. We need to be subsidizing it as booze- plumbing it into suburbs, cities, ghettos and barrios and dispensing it on tap at every corner and just let natural selection run it's course. If there were less people around there would be plenty of fuel and food.

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#328356 - 05/13/08 04:51 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
I think Bornyo works for an oil company.

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#328357 - 05/13/08 05:44 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bad Habit Offline
Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: SoCal
The whole oil/auto industry is a sham of fixed pricing and fixed technology designed to make a select few individuals obscenely rich.

The current world record for most efficient automobile is over 12,000 miles per gallon.
Let me repeat that, 12 THOUSAND MILES per gallon!
(Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-Marathon)
And cars routinely turn in this type of mileage year after year.

Granted, they're ass ugly, highly impractical vehicles that run at speeds around 35 mph; but even so, it shouldn't be hard to give me, John Q. Citizen, something pretty that runs at freeway speeds and gets at least 1/10th of that fuel efficiency, say a thousand miles per gallon. I really don't think that is asking too much.

Anyone that doesn't think we are being ass raped with a baseball bat on a daily basis by these two industries is in an extreme state of denial.
_________________________
I'd rather be ignorant than stupid. Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge which is easily correctable through education. Stupidity implies an inability to learn. Therefore; ignorance is temporary, stupidity is forever!

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#328358 - 05/13/08 11:07 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
John Floofin Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
As a guy from a corn state, I'll take the money and fuck you all!

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#328359 - 05/14/08 03:45 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
Everything needs startup money. Before there were oil companies with revenues larger than the GNP of many nations, scanning the ground with satellites looking for the next deposit, there were people and companies that had to invest in the individual well sites just to get them drilled.

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#328360 - 05/14/08 08:59 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
Anonymous
Unregistered



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#328361 - 05/14/08 10:03 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
My problem with electric cars has always been recharge time and range. Then again I don't have a problem with nuclear power.

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#328362 - 05/14/08 10:24 AM Re: One for the car one for me......
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

My problem with electric cars has always been recharge time and range. Then again I don't have a problem with nuclear power.




Indeed. The first models will likely be impractical for large portions of the Country. But they should do the trick in urban, densely populated areas. And the more of them that are built, the more incentive there is to make improvements.

To be perfectly honest, I think the environmental issues are secondary to the National Security concerns raised by our continued dependence upon muzzie oil. Cut the West's need for it, and the jihadis are left up to their asses in dinosaur ooze.

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#328363 - 05/14/08 03:34 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Battery technology needs a major boost. Right now an electric car has a larger environmental footprint than a conventional automobile due to the energy required for battery manufacture.

What we need is a car that runs on flubber.

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#328364 - 05/14/08 11:11 PM Re: One for the car one for me......
Bad Habit Offline
Kurt Lackwood's Fluffer

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 1283
Loc: SoCal
Quote:

Battery technology needs a major boost. Right now an electric car has a larger environmental footprint than a conventional automobile due to the energy required for battery manufacture.




Not to mention that the energy carbon footprint is just transfered from the automobile to the power generating plant.

My idea of the perfect vehicle comes from several different sources. It would use a small 4-stroke single cylinder engine, powered by an aluminum alloy hydrogen cell, that turns a flywheel to generate electricity to drive electric motors. Electric motors have the advantage of maximum torque through out the entire range of acceleration and respond quicker then internal combustion engines without the heat loss.
http://www.energyplanet.info/blog/2007/05/09/x1-electric-race-car/

The vehicle would be fueled with water and an aluminum alloy that is recoverable and recyclable and the only exhaust byproduct is water vapor.

No need to ever plug in, a true Zero Emission Vehicle since even the batteries would be 100% recyclable.

aluminum alloy hydrogen cell source: http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html
_________________________
I'd rather be ignorant than stupid. Ignorance implies a lack of knowledge which is easily correctable through education. Stupidity implies an inability to learn. Therefore; ignorance is temporary, stupidity is forever!

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