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#256628 - 07/02/07 03:39 PM Bush commutes Libby - Unbelievable
Pussy is good food Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 465

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush has commuted the prison term of former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, facing 30 months in prison after a federal court convicted him of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to investigators.


Bush commuted the jail sentence of convicted White House aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Earlier Monday, a federal appeals court unanimously ruled that Libby could not delay his sentence.

The charges relate to the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.

Libby was only weeks away from surrendering to a prison.

Bush was under great pressure by Libby allies to pardon the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

In a written statement issued hours after that ruling, Bush called the sentence "excessive." But he also rejected calls for a pardon for Libby.

"The consequences of his felony conviction on his former life as a lawyer, public servant, and private citizen will be long-lasting," Bush said.

But he said Libby was given "a harsh sentence based in part on allegations never presented to the jury."

Libby was the highest-ranking White House official ordered to prison since the Iran-Contra affair.

The conviction remains on Libby's record and he still has to pay a $250,000 fine.

Commutations are rarely granted, says CNN's chief legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. A commutation is a total right of the president and it cannot be challenged by any attorney or court, he said.

It means that Libby will still have the conviction on his record -- unless he is able to overturn it on appeal, which he will likely continue to pursue.

A pardon is a complete eradication of a conviction record, making it appear as if the person has never been convicted. It's possible that Bush could still grant Libby a full pardon.


Edited by Pussy is good food (07/02/07 04:39 PM)
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Sharon Mitchell said. "This is a population, you tell them to do something, and they won't do anything."We're not in the real world, we're in the world of porn."

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#256629 - 07/02/07 03:55 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Progignere Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 59
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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. --George Orwell

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#256630 - 07/02/07 04:01 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Dean Wormer Offline
Pervert

Registered: 08/05/05
Posts: 2116
Loc: Faber College
Bush did not pardon Libby he merely commuted his sentence. Big difference. The conviction is still on his record.
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It was a wonderful community with some very enjoyable members. But the vast majority were like German housewives circa 1943 prenteding that horrib;le smell wafting through their open windowsd was just the neighbors having a cookout..--Windsock

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#256631 - 07/02/07 04:17 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Pussy is good food Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 465
Point here is Paris will have done more time than old Scooter. That in itself is pretty disgraceful.
_________________________
Sharon Mitchell said. "This is a population, you tell them to do something, and they won't do anything."We're not in the real world, we're in the world of porn."

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#256632 - 07/02/07 04:18 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
XXXbit Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 367
Loc: WI
yeah there is a big difference ...a pardon is a forgiveness of a crime..........i.e....legally erase what happened ...

a commute is a lessening of the punishment.......i.e. reduce the amount of punishment but the incident hasn't been erased and is still on your record....

the bigger question is what will be the political fallout?
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#256633 - 07/02/07 04:27 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
ivorenginedriver Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
I hope that voters remember in November that Cheney's involvement was covered-up by Libby and Bush put his seal of approval on the whole deal. The bottom line is that this government is trying to send the proprietor of this forum to prison for filming consenting adults having sex, but condones a stonewall and cover-up involving the reasons for starting a war that has to date cost the lives of more than three thousand American service men and women. on Bush and Cheney.

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#256634 - 07/02/07 04:35 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

the bigger question is what will be the political fallout?





None and none. Any opprobrium arising from this will attach to lame duck Bush, and not the Republican Party or it's candidates. As much as I hate this, it was very well played.

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#256635 - 07/02/07 05:03 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Nate Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Whoreville
Yeah...i'm sure that felony will follow him around for at least the next few months until we forget about it. Can Bush then pardon Libby on his way outta office? Think that fine is gonna really hit him in the wallet...my ass. He'll be fucking a fucking judge in the Arabian Horse Association next year. All these fucking douchebags just laugh while they shit all over the decent people of this country.
politicians
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#256636 - 07/02/07 05:04 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
Why would Bush not do this? He shows support for his pal and really can't sink lower in the media and public opinion area anyway.

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#256637 - 07/02/07 09:42 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
elaborator Offline
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Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 3440
Loc: Jaundice Town
The best thing about these types of Republican outrages is watching the right wingers contort themselves in their attempts to justify them.


Worst. President. Ever.

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#256638 - 07/02/07 10:33 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Houstondon Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
I'm waiting to see which one of you posts the lengthy list of Clinton pardons in response. Don't kid yourselves that any politician is trustworthy with this kind of power.
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#256639 - 07/02/07 10:40 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Anonymous
Unregistered


The Clinton pardons, like Bush I's pardons (remember Cap Weinberger?) were mostly made at the end of their terms. This is a unique situation, coming a year and a half before the end of W's term.

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#256640 - 07/02/07 10:52 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
k1ng Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 6557
Loc: 2004 - the glory days
Quote:

The Clinton pardons, like Bush I's pardons (remember Cap Weinberger?) were mostly made at the end of their terms. This is a unique situation, coming a year and a half before the end of W's term.




so it's the timing not the actual commutation, not a pardon, that bothers you?
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#256641 - 07/02/07 10:59 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
elaborator Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 3440
Loc: Jaundice Town
I was wondering how long it would take for them to bring up Bill Clinton...

The fact that some sleazy, tool of Cheney's stays out of prison is a small price to pay for the added destruction to this failed administration. The Republican party has shown themselves to be completely apart from the mainstream of this country and thank god they will continue to pay in the Polls.










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#256642 - 07/02/07 11:04 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
elaborator Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 3440
Loc: Jaundice Town
Quote:

so it's the timing not the actual commutation, not a pardon, that bothers you?






actually the timing is perfect...just like the usual Friday News Dump/Justice Department resignations...Doing this on an extended Fourth of July holiday week is perfect. The only thing missing is a Terror Alert.

pathetic.
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#256643 - 07/02/07 11:29 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
k1ng Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 6557
Loc: 2004 - the glory days
Quote:

Quote:

so it's the timing not the actual commutation, not a pardon, that bothers you?






actually the timing is perfect...just like the usual Friday News Dump/Justice Department resignations...Doing this on an extended Fourth of July holiday week is perfect. The only thing missing is a Terror Alert.

pathetic.




that's true. a monday, two full days before a national holiday has really kept the story off the front pages. as far as terror alerts there's always britain, but of course they're just freedom fighters right? fighting off western imperialists trying to steal oil. "terrorist" is politically incorrect nowadays anyway.
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#256644 - 07/03/07 03:18 AM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Houstondon Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
Quote:

I was wondering how long it would take for them to bring up Bill Clinton...




Well, despite the poli-cheers that think either party is a bundle of joy, showing they are both corrupt and full of asshats that bring shame to the entire country seems reasonable. Besides, Bush Jr is not even close to the worse president we have had overall though you could make an argument that he is the worst in a particular category or three.
_________________________
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#256645 - 07/03/07 04:27 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

Point here is Paris will have done more time than old Scooter. That in itself is pretty disgraceful.



Um, only in one sense. Libby has been through far more legal hell than Paris. And Libby still has a $250k fine to pay, which is a far bigger sum to him than Paris...

Oddly I agree with Bush-the-lesser on this one - what Libby was accused and convicted of doesn't merit such a harsh sentence. Libby got nailed mainly so they didn't want to come away from the Plame thing empty-handed and couldn't get anyone for outing Plame.

And for the obligatory Clinton reference: Marc Rich. Bush-the-lesser might have pardoned a friend, but Clinton sold his pardon for campaign donations.
_________________________
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#256646 - 07/03/07 05:19 AM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Quote:

The Clinton pardons, like Bush I's pardons (remember Cap Weinberger?) were mostly made at the end of their terms. This is a unique situation, coming a year and a half before the end of W's term.




so it's the timing not the actual commutation, not a pardon, that bothers you?





It doesn't really bother me at all. Both parties make politically based pardons and commutations all the time, and whether you agree or disagree with it, the Constitution gives the President the right to do whatever the fuck he wants in this regard. The timing's just a bit unusual. Ordinarily, the process is allowed to play out a bit longer.

Still, he does face hefty fines, probation, almost certain disbarment, loss of civil liberties (including the right to own firearms and to vote) and other penalties. His reputation remains high in most conservative circles, and he'll have no trouble finding a job within those same circles. I'd wager that he'll get the full pardon on or about January 19, 2009, Bush's last day in office.

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#256647 - 07/03/07 10:07 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Soopergrizz Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 3724
Loc: Paddling my canoe in the wild
Quote:

Oddly I agree with Bush-the-lesser on this one - what Libby was accused and convicted of doesn't merit such a harsh sentence.




You've fallen for the talking points.

The sentence was well within the FEDERALLY MANDATED sentencing guidelines.

Law Prof Blog on similar crime

Quote:

As I have highlighted in posts here and here, decorated veteran Victor Rita received a within-guideline 33-month sentence for seemingly less serious instances of perjury and obstruction than the crimes that have led to Lewis Libby's 30-month within-guideline sentence. Meanwhile, as public debate over Libby's sentence has raged for nearly a month, the Supreme Court has been finalizing its ruling concerning whether Victor Rita's sentence is constitutional and reasonable under Booker and 18 U.S.C. § 3553(a).

Notably, the Libby outcome has already led a number of persons known for tough-on-crime views and rhetoric to decry the length of Libby's 30-month within-guideline sentence: former federal prosecutors Rudy Giuliani and William Otis have both made statements suggesting that Libby's sentence is unreasonably long. Though not stated in these terms, these high-profile criticisms of the length of Libby's sentence certainly spotlight the suspect nature of post-Booker doctrines that essentially apply a conclusive presumption that any and every within-guideline sentence is reasonable.

Though Supreme Court rulings are probably rarely impacted by inside-the-Beltway Sturm und Drang, it would be quite difficult for the Justices not to see the shadow of Lewis Libby hanging over their work in Rita. Though I doubt Libby's name will appear in the eventual Rita ruling, I think it is quite possible (and arguably quite appropriate) that the Libby case is impacting the Justices views and work on Rita.






Source, author of
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#256648 - 07/03/07 10:29 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Oddly I agree with Bush-the-lesser on this one - what Libby was accused and convicted of doesn't merit such a harsh sentence.




You've fallen for the talking points.




No, I'm saying that the guidelines are much too harsh, or that there aren't nearly enough differentiations in scale of the offense available.

And, I have some doubts about proof that Libby was really guilty - that his memory really was so good that when questioned much later he was knew he was wrong in saying which date he learned of Plame's status. Memory is a tricky thing - even the likes of Winston Churchill got the date of his appointment as PM wrong in his memoirs, and Churchill had a famously excellent memory.

Part of it too is being disgruntled at investigations that take it out on a bit player to avoid obvious failure. Think of Enron where a bunch of bit players got nailed but the real criminal, Fastow, got off almost free considering the scale of what he did.

The prosecutor in the Plame investigation failed completely. Not one person was charged in relation to that case. To me this looks like the prosecutor was desperate for something so the extent of his failure to get anywhere on the Plame investigation wouldn't be so obvious.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#256649 - 07/03/07 10:35 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
Bush won't rule out Libby pardon

By MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday refused to rule out an eventual pardon for former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

"As to the future, I rule nothing in and nothing out," the president said a day after commuting Libby's 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case.

Bush said he had weighed his decision carefully to erase Libby's prison time. He said the jury's conviction of Libby should stand but that the 30-month prison term was too severe.

"I made a judgment, a considered judgment, that I believe was the right decision to make in this case," the president said. "And I stand by it." At the same time, he left the door open for the possibility of a pardon later.

Bush spoke to reporters Tuesday after visiting wounded soldiers at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. His decision was roundly criticized by Democrats; Republicans were more subdued, with some welcoming the decision and but some conservatives saying he should have gone further.

Earlier Tuesday, chief Bush spokesman Tony Snow had declined to rule out the possibility of an eventual pardon and called the president satisfied with his decision to commute Libby's 2 1/2-year prison sentence.

"He thought any jail time was excessive. He did not see fit to have Scooter Libby taken to jail," Snow said.

The spokesman told reporters at a White House briefing that even with Bush's decision, Libby remains with a felony conviction on his record, two years' probation, a $250,000 fine and probable loss of his legal career. "So this is hardly a slap on the wrist," Snow said. "It is a very severe penalty.

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton, who sentenced Libby to prison, declined Tuesday to discuss the case or his views on sentencing. "To now say anything about sentencing on the heels of yesterday's events will inevitably be construed as comments on the president's commutation decision, which would be inappropriate," the judge said in an e-mail.

With prison seeming all but certain for Libby, Bush on Monday suddenly spared the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. His move came just five hours after a federal appeals court panel ruled that Libby could not delay his prison term. The Bureau of Prisons had already assigned Libby a prison identification number.

Snow was pressed several times on whether the president might eventually grant a full pardon to Libby, who had been convicted of lying and conspiracy in the CIA leak investigation. The press secretary declined to say anything categorically.

"The reason I will say I'm not going to close a door on a pardon is simply this: that Scooter Libby may petition for one," Snow said. "But the president has done what he thinks is appropriate to resolve this case."

"There is always a possibility — or there's an avenue open — for anybody to petition for consideration of a pardon," he added.

Snow did suggest that Bush was "getting pounding on the right for not granting a full pardon."

Asked whether Cheney — who calls Libby a friend and who has enormous influence within the White house — had pressed for Bush to commute Libby's sentence, Snow said, "I don't have direct knowledge. But on the other hand, the president did consult with most senior officials, and I'm sure that everybody had an opportunity to share their views."

"I'm sure that the vice president may have expressed an opinion ... he may of recused himself. I honestly don't know," Snow said.

However, the president made the decision without seeking any advice from the Office of the Pardon Attorney at the Justice Department, the White House had previously acknowledged.

Snow defended Bush's decision to not follow the usual course of running the matter past the Justice Department, saying details of the case were still fresh in everybody's mind, and that the president did not need to be brought up to date on details of the case.

Democrats have charged cronyism in sparing Libby jail time. But Snow said, "The president does not look upon this as granting a favor to anyone, and to do that is to misconstrue the nature of the deliberations."

"He spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to maintain the faith in the jury system, and he did that by keeping intact the conviction and some of the punishments," Snow said.

Snow was asked by a reporter if anyone in the administration would ever apologize for what prompted the entire investigation — public disclosure that Valerie Plame, the wife of sharp anti-war critic Joseph Wilson, was an undercover CIA officer.

"Yeah, it's improper to be leaking those names," Snow said. Pressed on whether someone in the administration owed the American public an apology, Snow said, "I'll apologize. Done."

Wilson, meanwhile, suggested the president's decision was a cover-up attempt to protect Cheney and perhaps his own office. He said Congress should investigate whether the president and Cheney were obstructing justice. "It's about them," Wilson told MSNBC from Santa Fe, New Mexico. Wilson, Plame and their children moved to Santa Fe earlier this year.

In an interview with APTN, Wilson called Bush's action "a continuation of the cover up for which Scooter Libby was originally convicted."

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald disputed Bush's assertion that the prison term was excessive. Libby was sentenced under the same laws as other criminals, Fitzgerald said. "It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals."

Libby's attorney, Theodore Wells, said in a statement that the Libby family was grateful for Bush's action and continued to believe in his innocence.

Because he was not pardoned, Libby remains the highest-ranking White House official convicted of a crime since the Iran-Contra affair.

That didn't stop an avalanche of criticism from Democrats.

"Libby's conviction was the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq war," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. "Now, even that small bit of justice has been undone."

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's decision showed the president "condones criminal conduct."

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#256650 - 07/03/07 11:17 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Soopergrizz Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 3724
Loc: Paddling my canoe in the wild
Quote:

Part of it too is being disgruntled at investigations that take it out on a bit player to avoid obvious failure. Think of Enron where a bunch of bit players got nailed but the real criminal, Fastow, got off almost free considering the scale of what he did.





And yet, any leverage to make Scooter turn on Cheney and Co. just disappeared. I'm sure that was a coincidence.

Fortunately, Bush will likely now start commuting the sentences of others who are convicted of crimes with unduly harsh sentences, like Genarlow Wilson
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#256651 - 07/03/07 11:17 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald disputed Bush's assertion that the prison term was excessive. Libby was sentenced under the same laws as other criminals, Fitzgerald said. "It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals."





Fitz is right. Li'l Kim did a year for lying to the Grand Jury. Martha Stewart did time for lying to the FBI. Why should Scooter be treated any differently? Even Nixon had the grace (or sense) to let his minions go to prison rather than pardon them or commute their sentences. Of course, Nixon had a House that had the numbers to impeach him, which, in the end, drove him to resign. Bush doesn't have that problem.

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#256652 - 07/03/07 09:06 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
dynamite x Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 259
Loc: in your white wife
bush ain't gonna let his boy get raped in jail for 2 1/2 years.He dont care if its fair or not I can't wait till bush is out of office next year.

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#256653 - 07/03/07 09:21 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
I can wait. I used to couldn't wait til Clinton was out. I thought he was the biggest embarrassment of a President we could have. Since he's left I did some research and learned that a few have been worse.

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#256654 - 07/03/07 09:33 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Anonymous
Unregistered


Harding, Grant and Buchannan probably being the worst of the worst. Though even the best of them aren't always that great.

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#256655 - 07/03/07 11:00 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Soopergrizz Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 3724
Loc: Paddling my canoe in the wild
Quote:

Harding, Grant and Buchannan probably being the worst of the worst. Though even the best of them aren't always that great.




Given that it's the 4th of July, I raise a glass in tribute to Thomas Jefferson: scholar, author, statesman and redhead who did interacial creampies!



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#256656 - 07/03/07 11:26 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
Jefferson is one of the best of the lot even if he wasn't concerned about the gene pool.

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#256657 - 07/04/07 07:46 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
the unknown pervert Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 5186
Loc: Joshua Tree National Park
Maybe the fact that Jefferson hated the job was why he was so good.
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#256658 - 07/04/07 08:08 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
elaborator Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 3440
Loc: Jaundice Town
Jefferson was great because he was curious about the world...so different from ...well i aint gonna say it cuz King will call me a terrorist kisser again!

Plus who can blame him for fuckin with his hottest slaves. I bet she had an ass he just couldn't avoid.

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#256659 - 07/04/07 10:05 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word many mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name - liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny."

The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Address at Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, Maryland" (April 18, 1864), p. 301-302.

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#256660 - 07/04/07 10:51 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've always held that Jefferson, while a first-rate political theorist, was a lousy practical politician. The Embargo Act was a disaster. His tenure as Governor of Virginia was a Fiasco. And, together with Madison, he formented Nullification, Secession and the States' Rights movement with the Virginia and Kentucky resolutions.

But, for all that, he was a fascinating guy: Deist, man of the Enlightenment, advocate of the separation of church and state and author of the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, horticulturist, statesman, architect, archaeologist, paleontologist, author, inventor, founder of the University of Virginia and the modern Library of Congress, oenophile, gourmet... and of course Author of the Declaration of Independence, whithout which we'd be speaking in faggy British accents and wouldn't be drinking this early on a Wednesday.

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#256661 - 07/04/07 11:26 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Progignere Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 59
Irving Lewis Liebowitz is an interesting character and a bit of a novelist. An Attorney for Marc David Reich (Marc Rich) - an interesting resume for sure:

http://judicial-inc.biz/lewis_libby_aka_Irving%20Lewis%20Liebowitz.htm

We as the American Nation are paralyzed and seem incapable of confronting the treason and criminality operating in plain sight. The avalanche of lies and crimes committed has reached a deafening crescendo.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. --George Orwell

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#256662 - 07/04/07 01:15 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hey, LePen? It's the Fourth of July for christ's sake. Ixnay on the Jew=Baiting for just this once and celebrate what's right about America. Like your (ever-dwindling) right to enjoy Pornography.

Oh, and if you want to go blaming the Rothchilds for everything, well, that's your right. But it's "Bauer," not "Baurer." You might want to make a note of that.

Okay, back to celebrating.

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#256663 - 07/04/07 01:47 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
SexDJ Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 09/07/03
Posts: 565
Loc: State of Moral Decay
Clinton pardoned his friends, Reagan pardoned his friends, Johnson pardoned his friends, and now Bush will pardon his friends. And so it goes........Now if Bush would just pardon Max & Jeff....

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#256664 - 07/04/07 02:04 PM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
Here are some opinions from FOX Fans (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287931,00.html):

"Since President Bush is now creating our laws, it is my understanding that the law should be applied equally. I expect that a rush of ex-perjurers will be leaving our prisons soon. Thank goodness we have that one cleared up." — T.

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. What part of that is hard to understand?" — T.

"Libby was convicted of committing serious crimes while in a high office of trust. By commuting his sentence, Bush has undermined our justice system, and acted above the law." — K.

"Yes, he should receive a full pardon. In my opinion this was a scam orchestrated by an bunch of unscrupulous left-wing liberals and one like-minded judge." — S.

"I think it's a complete outrage that this administration simply walks over the laws of this country as if they only apply to Americans who are not associated with the White House. I will absolutely not vote for a Republican in the upcoming election. No matter how well qualified an elective Republican senator, congressperson, state senator, state assemblyperson or city counselor is, my vote will go to either an Independent or a Democrat. I am aware that Democrats are not always straight and honest, but this president and his cronies have showed us how corrupt this administration can be. They have taken corruption to the limit." — D.R.

"A jury convicted Scooter Libby. Whatever we may think of the merits of the case, he should still do his time in prison. Otherwise we make a mockery of our judicial system." — Philippe

"Bush said that the commutation leaves in place a harsh punishment for Libby, citing the effect of the felony conviction on Libby's professional life. That's a joke. Libby can, and probably will, earn six or seven digits per year on lecturing circuits, as a lobbyist or consultant, writing a book, etc. The idea that a person of Libby's rank in the Republican hierarchy will ever suffer professionally is purely laughable. But that's what Bush has always done since day one — when he speaks, it's sound-bite politics, not reality. He's very good at it, and it works." — H.

"I am a conservative and I believe in the rule of law. Libby was justly convicted on four felony counts of obstruction of justice. He should go to jail just like other wealthy and/or powerful people who became criminals: Leona Helmsly, Chuck Colson, Dan Rostenkowski, Martha Stewart, Jeffrey Skilling, and even Paris Hilton. Bush's statement that the commutation is justified by Libby's 'lifetime of service' is absurd. Was Libby ever in the military? Did he earn a medal for his military service? Did he write a book that changed America or the world? Did he ever win a landmark case as a lawyer? Did he invent a cure for a disease? They (Bush and Cheney) just kept Libby out of jail so Libby wouldn't sing like a canary. It was sad when Clinton got away with perjury, and this is even worse. We are turning into a banana republic in which the powerful are above the law." — David (San Diego)

"It took a few minutes for it to sink in ... that after 1.) lying in a federal investigation run by a conservative guy like special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, 2.) being tried by a jury of his peers, and 3.) sentenced to jail, Libby does not have to pay for his crime? Why did the government waste taxpayers' monies for this dog and pony show? It is too shocking to believe. This government is much more corrupt than I ever imagined. Libby should serve time in prison like all others that break the law." — E.

"Mr. Libby should absolutely be pardoned. Moreover, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald should be aggressively investigated. This modern-day Torquemada now five days into his investigation that Richard Armitage was the one who leaked Valerie Plame's name, yet he still pressed on with his 'investigation.' I can only hope he suffers the same fate that Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong did: disbarred, disgraced, and utterly humiliated." — John (Los Angeles, CA)

"This administration takes yet another step to show that it is above the law. The only thing Libby deserves is the sympathy of the nation as he has clearly taken the fall for the 'good' of Cheney and the rest of the leaking culprits in the White House. There is absolutely no accountability in this administration. Bush's actions (and inactions) make it ever more difficult for the country to get behind the Republican candidates for president. Bush is paving the way for Clinton and/or Obama in '08. He may as well be contributing to their campaigns." — Wiley (Columbia, SC)

"Bush needs a mental evaluation after the commuted decision. The judge's sentence was 'dead on' for the crime committed. If Bush pardons Libby I will have lost all faith in our political system." — Frank (Flower Mound, TX)

"He should have at least served as much time as Paris did. We have a new justice system — everyone gets an 'out of jail free' card if you are a Bushy — if not you get Bushwhacked. — DeWayne

"This is yet another example of the Bush administration's lack of respect for ethics, justice, and most importantly, the value of the rule of law. An administration that continually acts as if it is above the law should not be allowed to remain in power. What will it take for Congress to finally take up the discussion of impeachment?" — David (Dallas, TX)


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#256665 - 07/05/07 07:50 AM Re: Bush pardons Libby - Unbelievable
Progignere Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 59
Correction noted and applied. It's time we stand up for America and quit posturing.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. --George Orwell

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#256666 - 07/05/07 02:07 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Houstondon Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
Quote:

The Clinton pardons, like Bush I's pardons (remember Cap Weinberger?) were mostly made at the end of their terms. This is a unique situation, coming a year and a half before the end of W's term.




Actually, he pardoned and commuted a great many sentences during his first term and at several stops along the way, here's a link to a credible source for those who care to read about the frauds, crack distributors, armed bank robbers, car thieves, and so many more...

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm

For those wanting to see the commutations made by Clinton, and there were a lot of them too, here's another link:

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/clinton_comm.htm

I still don't like the practice, regardless of the guy in office doing it, but the slight of hand brushing off by Bush-haters requires some balance...

And to be fair, here's a link to Bush Sr's pardons, albeit a bit shorter, he was in office half as long as Clinton:

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/bushgrants.htm

Closing out, here are links to the statistics of Presidential clemency from 1900 to 2001:

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/actions_fiscal.htm

http://www.usdoj.gov/pardon/actions_administration.htm
_________________________
"I'm rich. I'm a strong, trained fighter. I own a gun. And I am completely...fucking ... psychotic." Kurt Lockwood ranting yet again

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#256667 - 07/05/07 02:44 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
My question is: do two wrongs make one right?

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#256668 - 07/05/07 02:56 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
No but three lefts do.


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#256669 - 07/05/07 03:04 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
Quote:

No but three lefts do.




The Gentleman from South Carolina is acting very childish today. Good news, I presume.

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#256670 - 07/05/07 04:30 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Houstondon Offline
AC Cream Wannabe

Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
Quote:

My question is: do two wrongs make one right?



No, and neither do hundreds of wrongs. As I said, this commutation is peanuts compared to some of the crap that has been let slide by past presidents and hardly a blip in the radar regarding Bush Jr's status as a bad president. Given some of the comments in your earlier response from FOX (several which were so comical as to defy reason) and others made in this thread, you'd think he pardoned Charlie Manson and handed him the keys to Air Force One. The people screaming how wrong it was to reduce the sentence were silent during the other exercises of Presidential power abuse which is why I was helping put it in perspective.
_________________________
"I'm rich. I'm a strong, trained fighter. I own a gun. And I am completely...fucking ... psychotic." Kurt Lockwood ranting yet again

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#256671 - 07/05/07 04:37 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
Bornyo Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
HoustonDon, logic is useless on this one. Most sane and informed people realize that commuting Libby's sentence doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but not the board tranny.

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#256672 - 07/05/07 05:54 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
vanessa Offline
Internet Tough Guy

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
Quote:

Quote:

My question is: do two wrongs make one right?



No, and neither do hundreds of wrongs. As I said, this commutation is peanuts compared to some of the crap that has been let slide by past presidents and hardly a blip in the radar regarding Bush Jr's status as a bad president. Given some of the comments in your earlier response from FOX (several which were so comical as to defy reason) and others made in this thread, you'd think he pardoned Charlie Manson and handed him the keys to Air Force One. The people screaming how wrong it was to reduce the sentence were silent during the other exercises of Presidential power abuse which is why I was helping put it in perspective.




The true crime we would like to see debated in court is that of a President taking a nation to war based on lies fabricated by the White House. To prove that the reasons we went to war with Iraq were lies one needs to prove what was known by whom before the war. Did the White House know that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq?

Why do about 50% of Americans still believe that there was a link between 911 and Iraq? Can you explain that to me? Where is the demonstrable logic in that?

Yeah, business as usual. That's not how this country started out, but it sure looks like that's the order of the day, from now until eternity...

Now, to cheer up the good folks at xpt, here are some heartfelt words of wisdom from our President:

"I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them." (George W. Bush)


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#256673 - 07/05/07 08:15 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
elaborator Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 01/27/06
Posts: 3440
Loc: Jaundice Town
Libby was involved in a crime commited by this administration. Bush keeping him from doing any time insures that Libby would not be tempted to spill further beans if this investigation were to continue. That is how this is different from Clinton's pardons.

Jesus Christ turn off the talk radio and use some logic.



_________________________





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#256674 - 07/05/07 08:23 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
ivorenginedriver Offline
Porn Fucking Master

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 3576
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence short-circuits any investigation into Cheney's role in this affair. Richard Nixon was a pussy compared to Cheney. Cheney has learned how to stonewall hard enough and use the power of the presidency to carry forward a successful cover-up and dare anyone to do anything to stop him.

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#256675 - 07/05/07 10:46 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:


Libby was involved in a crime commited by this administration.



Libby was *not* not involved in outing Plame, and was never accused by anyone of being involved. That's been my point. What got Libby in trouble was giving the wrong date for when he first heard Plame was CIA. He claims that it was just faulty memory after so much time & events had passed, which I find credible (do you remember the precise date of every office rumor a year after the fact?). The prosecutor claimed that Libby in fact did remember the dates at the time of the Grand Jury testimony but chose to knowingly give the wrong dates, and he convinced a jury of this.

Had Libby been convicted of outing Plame then 30 months & 250K might be too little. But that penalty for a memory issue seems steep - the presidential Press Secretary at that time, Scott McCellan, has a perfect memory and might be expected to get it right after so much time, but I doubt anyone else could if they wanted to.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#256676 - 07/05/07 10:55 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Quote:

Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence short-circuits any investigation into Cheney's role in this affair.




No, that investigation closed a long time ago. I'd have to look at that dates again but I think the *prosecution* of Libby came after they gave up on ever getting to Cheney, and they publicly admitted they couldn't get anyone for outing Plame before even Libby's *conviction*, much less the commutation.

I don't think Libby's issue would have affected the Cheney hunt one way or the other. Had Libby told them what they wanted they'd still have a hard time proving *that* was correct, and be no closer to Cheney beyond that the opportunity was there, which is already the case.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#256677 - 07/05/07 10:56 PM Re: Bush commutes Libby - Business as usual
k1ng Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 6557
Loc: 2004 - the glory days
edit


Edited by King. (07/05/07 10:59 PM)
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"You are the worst poster in xpt yet I can't stop talking about you" - smelly monkey

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