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#251878 - 06/17/07 03:22 AM
Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Sun Diego
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Wondering what everyone's response and comments are to this long coke induced thought of mine:
It seems the industry is in a dive and everyone's pointing to slumping DVD sales and the possible collapse of a number of companies this summer. I can only recall a single DVD released this year I've even considered tracking down; there were at least six movies I really wanted to buy during 2006 (and not counting the random gonzo DVD's I bought in stores). I'd always enjoy picking up a College Invasion after seeing the aftermath of said volume's filming at the school...or Eon McKai's outings when they were garnering some positive mainstream publicity.
This year I haven't purchased a single DVD; I discovered VideoBox.com. At $9.95 a month its the cheapest site around and has always been reliable. My ex-girlfriend even turned me on to it; she let me use her account a bit then I enjoyed it so much I signed up myself.
I base my DVD purchases on mainstream press and discussion. The only DVD this year that remotely sparked any interest for me was TightFit's Assrealis. I figured the next time I was in a porn shop I'd pick it up (and likely pay some inflated sum like $39.95). Then one day I notice the entire DVD is available on VideoBox as a regular daily addition. It was seriously two months after it was released.
Is VideoBox killing the DVD market? Does anyone have numbers on their membership or what they're pulling in a month?
And why would Tight Fit release the movie that's received the most publicity in years basically for free just weeks after it first arrived in stores? An effort to get the Tight Fit brand name out there...and seemingly working? Some other sinister Jewish-cabal world plan?
(I did enjoy Assrealis...kind of grim reminder that there's freedom fighters all over the world fucking on film...I can only imagine a hard-line Islamic response to knowing Jews are filming porn on "holy lands." And I've always had a thing for Jewish girls who sorely lack appearances in porn.)
THoughts?
_________________________
"I choppy choppy yo pee pee"
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#251879 - 06/17/07 03:50 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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As Moxie usually points out, what's killing the market is lacklustre business practices. He's fond of saying that a proper management team would double or triple (or more) the earnings of most porn companies...and I think he's 100% correct in his assertion. Let's take marketing, for example...how many porn studios do you know that run an opt-in email list with a regular monthly newsletter? How many have their own forum where they can interact with the fans and get valuable feedback on their products? How many post censored previews or behind-the-scenes interviews on YouTube? How many have an official studio MySpace page? How many run retailer incentive programmes? How many run proof-of-purchase or coupon incentives for loyal customers? Downloadable .pdf magazine/brochure? On-site trailers (either downloadable or Flash player)? Competitions and prize draws? Free desktop wallpapers and other such stuff? You don't have to be able to get your contact girl on Howard Stern to be able to successfully market your brand. Moxie has already covered the fundamental business failings, and I have also discussed the fact that the industry is doing nothing to combat online piracy (sometimes all it takes is a simple email with words like 'DMCA' and 'Name Server' to get your stuff removed and prevent further uploads of your material to piracy forums). Most porn studios are feeling the pinch due to lazyitis, in my humble opinion. Time to either get good or get gone. 
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#251880 - 06/17/07 01:28 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 4203
Loc: Bakersfield Plumbing Supplies ...
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I'd get in to this, we've done this topic to death in the last six months.
_________________________
I also am subcribe to postal pornography - CAOH
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#251881 - 06/17/07 08:28 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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Stevie, you can start by doing a search on "porn economics" or "VOD".
I don't think Videobox has had any effect on the market whatsoever. Most adult customers rent rather than buy, so Netflix type set ups just change who they are renting from. The bigger force has been the failure of adult companies to embrace video on demand and other internet delivery technologies. I can personally tell you I have not bought or rented an adult movie from a store since 1999. Everything comes from a VOD distributer like Gamelink or Empire. If I can order something online, why would I go toa store? The product is mostly funglible anyway. When a movie I want to see is not available on VOD, I'm not motivated to go to the store or wait for a disk in the mail. I just get something else that is available on the net and the producer of the film I wanted to see loses out on a sale.
If VOD was truly embraced by adult companies they would be growing their business instead of shrinking. VOD opens foreign markets to american porn. So, you can reach at least a billion more customers, and probally more like two Billion. I could write on this for pages, but like Conky said, we've discussed it for the past six months.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#251882 - 06/17/07 09:48 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 9195
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VideoBox appeals to people who use porn to get off...the titles are always a few months old, sometimes even a few years. If you demand your porn to "fresh on the street," then VB is not for you--and by the way, your desire to jack off to a whore before anyone else does makes you a complete  , but I digress. I think the real advantage of VB is that you choose which sections of the video or scene to download. If you don't want to hear the interview with Keri Windsor before Mark Davis chokes her within inches of the E.R., you can edit that part out. Still, I kind of miss the old days when you had to have the VCR remote, and time the fast forward just right... 
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#251883 - 06/17/07 10:00 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
VideoBox appeals to people who use porn to get off
Is there any other use for porn? 
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#251884 - 06/17/07 10:10 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 9195
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Quote:
Quote:
VideoBox appeals to people who use porn to get off
Is there any other use for porn?
I know of any number of other forums where people discuss the non-sex qualities of porn (i.e., the "classics" use plot lines, but gonzo does not). I suppose there is some middle ground which is the most true, one can still get off to Nikki Dial even though she is long retired.
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#251885 - 06/17/07 10:22 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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True enough, I suppose, though I wouldn't be caught dead on one of those forums. And it's becoming increasingly clear that producers are going to have to start incorporating plot lines or other devices in order to meet the third prong of the Miller test. ("Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary and/or artistic, political, or scientific value. ")
Bah! It's hard to be a pervert these days.
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#251887 - 06/19/07 02:25 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
I don't think a website like VideoBox would hurt the industry. I think it's more about the quality of porn today. People still want to jerk off but don't consider most porn worth owning, especially when the market is flooded with so much crap. So why bother buying a dvd when you can just download the individual scenes and toss the thing afterwards without the regret of having purchased the dvd? Besides, if you really like the video you downloaded, you can always upgrade the quality and get the dvd.
Agreed...in the future, I think the only stuff available on DVD will be features and extremely high-end gonzos only (think Jules Jordan). I've already made the gonzo=fast food features=three course meal in fancy restaurant analogy, and I think gonzo's disposable nature makes it a perfect fit for VOD...in fact, I tend to think startup gonzo outfits should pursue VOD first nowadays.
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#251888 - 06/19/07 06:17 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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The quality is not an issue. VOD is like putting a slot machine in a gambling addicts home. You have a customer porn addict with their CC # hooked up to the computer and they can order porn after porn after porn until they rub their genitals raw.
Yet, adult content providers choose to provide their content in a form (DVD) where the customer has multiple opportunities to change their mind and come to their senses. If adult companies are losing money, its really no one else's fault but their own. To boot, they could be reaching customers outside the U.S. and building a foreign market.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#251889 - 06/19/07 05:14 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The quality is not an issue. VOD is like putting a slot machine in a gambling addicts home. You have a customer porn addict with their CC # hooked up to the computer and they can order porn after porn after porn until they rub their genitals raw.
More importantly, that money would be going directly to the companies and not disbursed amonst middlemen, distributors, retailers, etc. Forget the slot machine analogy, this could be the next Crack Epedemic.
Sooner or later, it will happen. It just takes time. After all, how many years passed between the advent of freebase and the full on explosion of the Crack years. All it needs is one smart guy to show the way.
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#251890 - 06/19/07 09:15 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Bukkake Boy
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 698
Loc: CA
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Quote:
The bigger force has been the failure of adult companies to embrace video on demand and other internet delivery technologies.
WRONG... the downfall of DVD distribution and the failure of adult companies has been VOD. Not because the technology is bad, but because the VOD distributors, who have no incentive other than maximize cash flow, have priced the product so low that nobody is making real money. With VOD prices in the pennies to get off, why would anybody buy a DVD at any price???
If adult companies want to make money, they have to fire their VOD distributors and do it in house so they can determine what the price is for access. After all, every website is merely a "channel."
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#251891 - 06/20/07 01:39 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
If adult companies want to make money, they have to fire their VOD distributors and do it in house so they can determine what the price is for access. After all, every website is merely a "channel."
100% correct, providing a company has either a) the library or b) the hot girl/title or c) both.
Setting up a VOD site isn't brain surgery, but bringing in the traffic is. If you have what the people are looking for, then they will come to you...it's that simple.
Companies with brand name recognition like Vivid and RLD could be making a lot more money off of VOD than they are now, simply by cutting out the middlemen and starting up their own in-house VOD rather than settling for the percentage they get from VOD sites.
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#251892 - 06/20/07 12:22 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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crack actually CREATED MIDDLEMEN. it is nowhere near as diesel a drug as base in terms of purity and effect but drug addicts in the bronx and compton tended to lack the competency needed to understand what ether creep is. so when crack came along and smalltime addict/dealers stopped bursting into flames you all of a sudden had a lot more dealers making the shit at home.
_________________________
"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#251894 - 06/21/07 07:03 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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While VOD brings less return per unit sold, you will sell a whole lot more VOD's than DVD's. Its easier to get (no late fees), its cheaper, its more of an impulse purchase (trust me) and it reaches a much larger audience.
The problem is that its an entirely new market approach. Everyone knows that 90% of the DVD endusers are renters. So the producer sells to a distributor, who sells to a video store, who rents the unit 50 times at $3-10 (if you factor in late charges). For every person who actually watches a porn move --as opposed to buys it--are producers even getting $1? I doubt it.
The VOD distribution system puts the producer in a position to collect fees from EVERYONE who watches a movie--as opposed to from a few video store owners that buy it. If there wasn't more money in renting to the enduser, video stores wouldn't buy porn.
I don't think the answer is to keep it inhouse. if the enduser has to jump from Vivid, to Club Jenna, to JM, they are going to be discouraged from making a purchase. Maybe if you want to talk about a Naughty America format, but lets not get sidetracked. The industry can prosper if it uses Gamelink or Empire as a central clearing house and moves as much product as it can.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#251895 - 06/22/07 02:39 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
I don't think the answer is to keep it inhouse. if the enduser has to jump from Vivid, to Club Jenna, to JM, they are going to be discouraged from making a purchase. Maybe if you want to talk about a Naughty America format, but lets not get sidetracked. The industry can prosper if it uses Gamelink or Empire as a central clearing house and moves as much product as it can.
Changing sites is (and should be) like changing channels on the TV...my point is, certain companies can afford to take it in house because they have the material that will bring in the audience. Want to see Sunny Leone doing b/g? then you have to go to Vivid, because they're the only ones who have it.
As I've said previously, if producers utilise the web and VOD correctly, they have the ultimate R&D tool at their fingertips.
It might make financial sense to pay Amy Ried $25,000 to do her first interracial scene, it might make even better sense to pay Aria Giovanni or Jana Cova $100,000 to do their first b/g...VOD should theoretically help usher in a more meritocratic age wherein those who bring in the big dollars get the big dollars, and those who don't, don't. I think the implications this will have on the quality of the talent pool will be immense and extremely beneficial to the quality of the product.
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#251896 - 06/24/07 04:49 AM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Bukkake Boy
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 698
Loc: CA
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Quote:
The industry can prosper if it uses Gamelink or Empire as a central clearing house and moves as much product as it can.
Listen, how exactly does the "industry" prosper when they use a VOD service provider??? By far, the most popular form of VOD distribution with consumers is pay per minute (PPM) - and that's because it is the cheapest for them. Using PPM a consumer can get off for pennies on their impulse buy. With current VOD contracts, the studios only wind up with 30% - 40% of those pennies. If a guy whacks off like an animal and it takes 5 minutes to get off, what the fuck does the studio see? 15 cents or less. That same consumer has to whack off 100 times for the studio to make $15. If you think that's "prospering" I'll give you $5 an hour to do my lawyering, so you can prosper.
I think that Bang Bros have a pretty good "Network" model. You pay a monthly subscription fee and get access to 18 different "channels."
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#251898 - 06/24/07 01:50 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Rob Black's Crack Pipe
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 145
Loc: Whoreville
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I wonder what's going to happen when everyone who champions VOD as their savior finds out that what they had before wasn't actually that bad, and that simple changes to the DVD method (fewer shit releases, the elimination of cheap throwaway crap, and better pricing to the consumer) would keep the DVD (and HD DVD) market profitable for years. If you think getting 30% of $0.08 is going to keep you in business, I hope you have a Superman 3 / Office Space scheme cooked up with that to do that about 1 million times per title so you can afford to just pay talent. VOD has many good possibilities, but I believe the VOD and the DVD guy are 2 different customers, and guys aren't going to all of a sudden become agoraphobic shut-ins who won't leave the house. Don't believe the lame ass ads from hotmovies.com, bunch of scare tactic, fear-mongering bs.
If you see VOD as the only way to save your business, it might be that your content is crap. The industry needs to stop oversaturating a market that already has shrinking margins and put their foot down on quality, fight bootlegging aggressively, and put an end to the cheap throwaway companies recycling the same old shit over and over again for $0.85.
_________________________
*DUN DUN*
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#251900 - 06/24/07 06:13 PM
Re: Has VideoBox destroyed the DVD market?
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Bukkake Boy
Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 698
Loc: CA
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Quote:
I seem to recall saying this a few months ago and you said it wasn't a good model cause people could join for $30 and rip hundreds of scenes to their computer.
If I were running some big companys distribution I would follow a hybrid Hollywood/cable network distribution model. First I would terminate all VOD/online contracts. Then I would create various web "channels" based on the type of product and I would distribute to retail first (since porn has no real theatrical release), then I would use the web channels to pump the living shit out of the retail releases for the first 30 days with massive teaser "infomercial" play along with "the making of" videos. Next, I would integrate in programming to sell direct to consumer and full length movies after they have been on the shelf for 60-90 days.
Here's the logic. You ship to retail first, pump releases (with full disclosure to retailers as to what you are doing) to get customers into retail. Moving more product at retail gets you bigger orders AND better shelf space, which in turn helps you move more product. Once retail sales start to drop on a product, you go direct to consumer online to make your library keep paying. The online releases, months after they hit the retail shelf, just extend library sales. You remove the middle man doing VOD, stop cannibalizing your retail and direct to consumer sales, and you start making a hell of a lot more money because your product is controlled.
Now for a commercial announcement... Any studio that wants to hire me as a consultant to retool their distribution as outlined to maximize revenue can contact me.
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