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#240857 - 04/28/07 05:35 AM
Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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Todays Topic, Diversification and Global Expansion My Space The latest news from the industry is that DVD sales are down 30% and that the annual slowdown is looming. Comments on the message boards say that some studios have stopped production. The root cause is oversaturization. When well run companies oversaturate their market, they expand into other markets. Yet despite a vast untapped market for porn, i have yet to see any company in the adult entertainment industry release any spanish language titles. There is such a vast market of spanish speaking americans that they are becoming the most sought after demographic for american businesses. They have their own television stations such as Telemundo and Univision. Why not Teleporno and Univivid. If you have ever seen a spanish language news cast or variety show or novela, their cultural predisposition to scantily clad ladies is aparent. Many of us gringos watch Telemundo with the sound off and our pants down. By many estimates there are over 20 Million illegal aliens in this country. Many speak little english and would presumably jump at the opportunity to hear "mas duro papi" in their native language. As of 2004, the US census showed that there are over 40 Million spanish speaking legal residents in the United States. Why the adult industry is not marketing a product to this population in its native language with native performers is beyond me. Then of course there is the Central and South American customers who would presumably be interested in American Porn marketed to them. I first checked out SinRespeto.com which is a Spanish Porn blog run by XPT poster El Glorioso. It features nothing but American Porn stars. This says to me that American porn has established its brand and that market is ripe for the picking. Ay Papi. I asked El Glorioso whether any American companies were marketing porn to the Spanish Speaking market. His response was "No LOL!!!.. in directv have a argentinian based channel named Venus and Playboy in spanish." The writing is on the peep show both wall. A fertile market exists for American porn companies to expand into exists.
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"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240858 - 04/28/07 05:44 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240859 - 04/28/07 09:15 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Wicked often have a Spanish language track on their feature DVDs, but I don't know if that's what you're getting at? Also, aiming porn at illegal immigrants just sounds like bad business to me...I have a feeling the films would be hard pirated (i.e. physical copies with sleeves/cases) and sold for cents amongst that audience/demographic. Perhaps setting up a Latin American arm of an existing company might be the way to go? However, outside of Brazil (who speak Portugese and thus are of little use in targetting the Spanish speaking audience), I'm not so sure of the legality...look at Fred Salaff for a sobering example. Colombia has many beautiful girls, but the murder rate is somewhat off-putting. I just tend to think that if what you are proposing was viable, Vivid would have already done it by now. Also, don't forget that most people don't want to press 1 for English. 
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#240861 - 04/28/07 10:21 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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i look at;
1-can they pay?
credit cards and debit cards are nice aside from online sales. it's a really bad thing check cashing places are ubiquitous in your target demographic's neighborhood. even some of those with money to buy your product have no ss#'s, permanent addresses, or bank accounts.
2-can you get them your product?
bandwidth is a problem, both for tv and internet. cable's not huge in this market because of cost and getting it set up. plug some rabbit ears into your tv and you'll see a lot of spanish channels. internet-cost and setup at a semi-permanent addy with ss/credit checks factor in here as well.
3-will they pay for it once you give it to them?
corruption feels as comfortable as a favorite blanket to most in the global south and these people are used to living with two economies existing openly at the opposite ends of their legal spectrum.
central and south americans are pretty efficient at creating black markets and quite comfortable using them. if you can copy it, they'll be selling it to each other.
4-do they all really want it in the first place?
-hardcore catholicism. assume you're looking at one person who habitually crosses themselves while muttering in rushed-spanish for every one of those topless girls on the beach. a lot of the porn shot in these countries is by gringos selling it in their own countries and central and south america are poor. poor people will fuck on film for you and poor places with tourism mean lots of hookers are around, that doesn't mean society as a whole embraces porn as much as jesus icons and crosses.
_________________________
"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#240862 - 04/28/07 10:24 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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on the other hand, fancy consultants like me did tell AT&T cellular telephones would never catch on. i'm sure their report was well put together though.
_________________________
"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#240863 - 04/28/07 10:25 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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5. Logistics?
Illegals, at least the ones I'm familiar with in New York, live up to nine in a one-bedroom apartment and sleep, three or four to a bed, in shifts. Doesn't provide much of an opportunity for one to stroke one out now, does it?
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240864 - 04/28/07 01:11 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Ed Hardy Wearing Loser
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 35
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Now that's what I call an untenable situation!
The Doctor
_________________________
"We don't take no cum dodgers in Scotland." - Scotti Andrews
"We don't take 'em in Canada, neither!" - Eric Everhard
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#240865 - 04/28/07 01:17 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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Thank you all for the XPT class is racist stereotypes. You have all been awarded your "Nappy Ho" certificates. Not every hispanic is living in squalor. Get to Miami sometime and tell a cuban business man that jibe.
Besides, even poor people buy porn, perhaps more so. I still don't see why adult companies don't have latin divisions set up producing scenes with Latin stars, such as sativa or Paola Rey marketed for a Spanish speaking audience.
Imagine if Hollywood ignored its foreign box office.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240866 - 04/28/07 01:23 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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Just drawing upon what I've seen first hand in my restaurant days. That's exactly how my dishwashers and prep cooks lived. I've seen it. Now these "Nappy Ho" certificates. Where exactly are they redeemable? Le Bernadin? 
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240867 - 04/28/07 01:28 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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How could I forget, all hispanics are dishwashers. I will let the president of Proctor and Gamble know that they are wasting all that marketing money on the Latin Market.
Raul, you get Peruvian chicken on first ave.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240868 - 04/28/07 01:33 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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No, no, no. Some are in construction.
Just Kidding. I'm only speaking of what I know. You're right. It's a diversified market and should be explored. Or, more appropriately, exploited.
Mmmmmmmmmm Peruvian Chicken. Them's eats!
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240869 - 04/28/07 02:44 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
Thank you all for the XPT class is racist stereotypes. You have all been awarded your "Nappy Ho" certificates. Not every hispanic is living in squalor. Get to Miami sometime and tell a cuban business man that jibe.
Besides, even poor people buy porn, perhaps more so. I still don't see why adult companies don't have latin divisions set up producing scenes with Latin stars, such as sativa or Paola Rey marketed for a Spanish speaking audience.
Imagine if Hollywood ignored its foreign box office.
Moxie, you still haven't answered the big question...why?
If it's such an untapped market, why hasn't either an English language company set up a Spanish arm, or a dedicated Spanish language company popped up?
I bow to no man in my admiration of Sativa Rose and her fantastic breasts (although I prefer her with her original hair colour), but I'm hard pressed to think of any Spanish-speaking girls right now who have that much clout that a company could be built around them. Carmen Luvana and Jenna Haze are both popular, but I'm not sure I'd bet the house on either of them...look at what happened to JKP.
As an aside, would you also be in favour of porn featuring Chinese-American girls speaking in Chinese? There's a market of around 1/2 a billion to aim at there, but it's unlikely they'll ever get to see it, and if so, certainly not by legal means. Which means no money for the producer...
I think your accusations of racism are a little off base, and I think jamesn has pretty much spelled out the reasons why nobody is pursuing this market...whilst they may not be pretty, they are largely true.
Also, your example of Hollywood foreign box office takings is not really analogous to what your are proposing...Hollywood simply subs or dubs films into the native language of the market, it doesn't make a film in a foreign language (with rare exceptions, like 'The Passion'). Adult companies already do this with Spanish or German language tracks...indeed, in spite of not making the blockbusters in Spanish, the mainstream studios can still make money off of them in the Spanish-speaking market. Hence, they are no better than adult companies in this respect.
I can't recall the name of it, but I'm sure Salma Hayek is involved with a new studio/production co which aims to market Latin stars to an English speaking audience (which I assume means they will be shooting English language films...the number of Hollywood remakes of perfectly good foreign language films tells us that America can't stand subtitles!).
Having said that, who knows...it only takes one person to do it right, and then everyone else in porn valley will jump on the bandwagon.
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#240870 - 04/28/07 03:44 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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i know it's fun to look at what i wrote and get all shrill, but i really enjoy the reaction i get toying with scale of a generalization i can make with the available evidence. it's great to see where people become uncomfortable as individual bits of data they'd consider objective and true can be arranged into a snowman that resembles an unfair stereotype to them.
i could just say "hispanics who don't speak english are poor. poor people steal and you can't steal broadband lines. it's dumb to spend money selling non-essential items to poor people if they can cheaply reproduce and resell them" and i wouldn't be wrong, i just felt like being politic about it. it's still based on objectivity.
fluency means affluence and your initial premise focused on the spanish language.
the demographics of who needs to be able to read signage in public places and order fast food doesn't translate directly into who can buy superflous luxury items in quantity.
bergdorf's doesn't have bilingual-signage, the check-cashing place does.
fluent hispanics are on the internet, they have money and credit cards, they have cable.
the hispanic advertising/marketing people emphasize how important it is that they be targeted and how under-represented they are as a demographic, but there's the simple fact that the ones who have money to spend WILL buy stuff without being directly catered to linguistically.
i paid attention to that and divided the hispanic marketplace into according segments. the non-english speaking part of the hispanic population is pretty fucking poor and SIGNIFIGANTLY lag behind the bilinguals in the adoption of broadband services and financial services(credit cards, debit accounts, etc.).
yeah, there's crossover, but you want to spend at the bilinguals and ESPECIALLY second-generation hispanics who are part of the demographic but really identify more with the american hispanic culture than the one they originated from.
they have money, they identify themselves as hispanic but they're probably closer to the "latin" pornstars in america than one working in rio on the cheap.
_________________________
"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#240872 - 04/28/07 04:06 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 1058
Loc: Keen for Peen
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Why? Is hearing 'DROPPIN' LOADS!!!!!!!!!!!' less annoying in Spanish?
_________________________
Even though Brian Pumper sometimes tries to act like he is hardcore thug-rapper, I can tell that underneath he is a considerate, respectful guy. -tritone
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#240874 - 04/28/07 05:47 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 4468
Loc: Great America
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Quote:
Quote:
spain can make more money but they rejects to make gonzo, they only like make big budget features and only make 2 o 3 movies per year
spain's a western european country, maybe not the richest and greatest one, but it's a western european market meaning one with companies FROM western europe who can do the same stuff you can. i sincerely doubt a company like private ignores spain and they probably have a better idea of what sells there. spanish people and the people here who speak spanish presumably are going to live different lives and want different things. plus, western europe has no qualms about getting a little overprotective of their own companies and industries and if it's between an EU or american company taking the market, they've got the wind behind them already and you don't switch sides at the half.
but
spain have great talent and the fans wants spanish gonzo but the companies refuses make it. their problem is they are the only country in europe whoe speaks spanish(and their translated movies sucks) Spain in the Ass from zero tolerance is a gonzo by micky blue (european) and maked for USA market and the cast is spanish and two girls from venenzuela
spain and latin american and USA fans liked the movie
most of the spanish directors and companies only want awards and the spanish talent have to shoot in other european countries for survive. Spanish are hispanic like latin americans have the same CALIENTE BLOOD i think if they point their market to latin america too they can have luck
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#240875 - 04/28/07 05:52 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Internet Tough Guy
Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
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I think Moxie is up to something. At least in theory - I say in theory - globalization applies to porn just like it does to any other business.
However, I don't know how many legal barriers exist that make exporting/importing porn to/into other countries difficult; there just seem to be a lot of those obstacles, maybe making the concept of globalization a difficult one to apply to porn right now, even when it comes to delivery via web. Those barriers are impeding exports but they are also protecting the domestic market from even more competition.
One thing is certain. There is no place on earth like Porn Valley, just like there is no other place like Hollywood (for argument's sake, lets pretend Bollywood doesn’t really count). We have here a concentration of know-how, talent and perverts that is unique in the world. This is an advantage that should translate into a product that is unique and superior to what is produced anywhere else.
The question is: Can you do it? Are you doing it?
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#240876 - 04/28/07 06:22 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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Quote:
i sincerely doubt a company like private ignores spain and they probably have a better idea of what sells there.
Funnily enough, Private are based in Spain. Barcelona, to be exact.
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#240878 - 04/29/07 07:32 AM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 4468
Loc: Great America
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Quote:
Quote:
Spanish are hispanic like latin americans have the same CALIENTE BLOOD i think if they point their market to latin america too they can have luck
funny, most of spain is castilian and consider themselves caucasian and don't think you're the same race as them.
but they are hispanics too its not a race issue is a jack off issue LOL!!!
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#240880 - 04/29/07 09:22 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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Quote:
Quote:
Why the adult industry is not marketing a product to this population in its native language with native performers is beyond me.
As Dan mentioned, you forgot about Wicked adding in a Spanish dub but there are also all those titles from Zero Tolerance/Third Degree too (as well as a few others). As far as "titles" are concerned, what about "Culos Gigantes" ( http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=26667 ) from Mercenary Pictures, the popular "Mami Culo Grande" ( http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=26449 ) from Evil Angel, and the scores of others on the market that cater to Latino tastes? (in the form of the big ass, Latina hotties, etc?; a quick search yielding 100+ titles without even trying http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/list.php?orderBy=Reviewer&reviewType=Adult+DVD+Video&searchText=latin&NReviews=50&___rd=1)
A dub is not the same as product specifically catering to that demographic. While there's lots of english language 'Chicka Boom' type product. I'm not aware of any american companies with a Latino arm to specifically produce content for the latin culture.
American porn has a brand quality that is desired in other parts of the world. Why American companies don't capitalize on their brand is beyond me. Expansion is yet another basic business concept that adult companies can't seem to grasp.
Ptetty much every aspect of the adult industry is run in an amatuer fashion. Fron PR, to marketing, to journalism, to production. I have no doubt that a professional management group could easily double the profitability of any adult production company by simply applying standard business concepts. Of course, part of the apeal of porn is its amatuer nature and with increased profitability would come a more corporate product.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240881 - 04/29/07 09:46 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
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Dubs by some of the companies aside then, what exactly would it take to constitute "content for the Latin culture"? I mean, the dubs are certainly not being used to teach anyone Spanish and if they are being added on regularly by a few companies, there must be some financial incentive (I've asked in the past) as they are being sold to Spanish speaking consumers.
As far as titles are concerned, there are numerous Spanish titles on the market (I listed two of them previously) where the language used is often Spanish, Portuguese, etc. and have been told they sell well to the group. Could companies make a more concerted effort to grab that market share? Probably, but as affluent as it can be, my own experience (in Houston, TX) is that such consumers are still individuals first, a group demographic second. Houston has scores of strip clubs and adult book/video stores. From my limited anecdotal experience, such consumers look at box covers just like the rest of us going up and down the aisles. On that note, what would you do to address this Latino "porn gap"? (keeping in mind that some companies fly down to Brazil, Mexico, and other locales ripe with such gals to record scenes these days)
_________________________
"I'm rich. I'm a strong, trained fighter. I own a gun. And I am completely...fucking ... psychotic." Kurt Lockwood ranting yet again
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#240883 - 04/29/07 10:15 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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Houston Don, I'm talking about a product arm featuring spanish speaking performers created for the spanish speaking world. Fill in the names you want or new ones can be discovered. The american porn market is saturated with content so its time to expand to other markets.
Alex Panzer, the spanish speakers will bootleg in about the same rate as the rest of the world. Its not like they are the only ones to do it.
The critism of this business aproach keeps marshalling down racial and xenophobic stereotypes to gross generalizations that are unfounded. Hispanics acheive the american dream in far greater numbers than blacks. The disrespect for the buying power of the latino dollar is stunning.
Enjoy the slowdown and keep sticking your collective head in the sand.
_________________________
"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240884 - 04/29/07 10:21 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Houston Don, I'm talking about a product arm featuring spanish speaking performers created for the spanish speaking world. Fill in the names you want or new ones can be discovered. The american porn market is saturated with content so its time to expand to other markets.
Alex Panzer, the spanish speakers will bootleg in about the same rate as the rest of the world. Its not like they are the only ones to do it.
The critism of this business aproach keeps marshalling down racial and xenophobic stereotypes to gross generalizations that are unfounded. Hispanics acheive the american dream in far greater numbers than blacks. The disrespect for the buying power of the latino dollar is stunning.
Enjoy the slowdown and keep sticking your collective head in the sand.
Chinese people would rather buy bootlegs, Russian people prefer bootlegs and I think Latin people (here in USA) prefer bootlegs, African-Americans also like bootlegs. Just 2 days ago I was riding in the subway and some black guy was offering bootlegs in the train car for $5.00 a piece. He had mainstream and porno DVDs, but he probably had like 200 pornos on him at that time.
And why Mexican girls do not like it in the ass? And how do you say enema in spanish? We had a little chat yesterday at ADT and all I could say was Aqua de culo, was I even close?
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#240886 - 04/29/07 10:41 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Alex, if you get booted again from ADT, you'll always have a home here. 
Thanks, I am just visiting here. Right now there are no good threads at ADT so I am browsing at XPTs threads.
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#240888 - 04/29/07 11:04 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Tranny Whisperer
Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/02/03
Posts: 9221
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Houston Don, I'm talking about a product arm featuring spanish speaking performers created for the spanish speaking world. Fill in the names you want or new ones can be discovered. The american porn market is saturated with content so its time to expand to other markets.
Alex Panzer, the spanish speakers will bootleg in about the same rate as the rest of the world. Its not like they are the only ones to do it.
The critism of this business aproach keeps marshalling down racial and xenophobic stereotypes to gross generalizations that are unfounded. Hispanics acheive the american dream in far greater numbers than blacks. The disrespect for the buying power of the latino dollar is stunning.
Enjoy the slowdown and keep sticking your collective head in the sand.
Chinese people would rather buy bootlegs, Russian people prefer bootlegs and I think Latin people (here in USA) prefer bootlegs, African-Americans also like bootlegs. Just 2 days ago I was riding in the subway and some black guy was offering bootlegs in the train car for $5.00 a piece. He had mainstream and porno DVDs, but he probably had like 200 pornos on him at that time.
And why Mexican girls do not like it in the ass? And how do you say enema in spanish? We had a little chat yesterday at ADT and all I could say was Aqua de culo, was I even close?
Next time I meet with owners of Goya foods or any other latin business. I'll bring them some bootlegs so they don't have get their $2000 suits dirty on the subway. I'll drop Bill Richardson an email asking how many bootlegs he has. I'll let the Latin Division of EMI know that they can stop the presses. I'll skip all the meetings with Latin Businesses because their all probably dishwashers living 9 to a room.
Really, these portrayals of all latins as dishwashers and criminals are more than just a little ignorant. Do a little research into how much money these people make before you speak.
As far as I know the Goya owners own the bootlegging presses/burning machines and milling machines for the prosthetic wooden legs.
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#240890 - 04/29/07 11:31 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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Whoremaster
Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 2710
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/film/latins-got-mass-appeal-salma/2007/04/10/1175971071909.html Here's the scoop on Salma Hayek's hook-up with MGM. By the way Moxie, perhaps an answer to your question might be found by asking Latino porn producers in the US, like TT Boy...why aren't they doing it?  Speaking from personal experience doing affiliate work for websites, the Latina niche has been an absolute sales dog for me unfortunately. I'm seeing parallels with a topic pornlaw posted over on AZT, asking whether it was time for a black contract girl (he's not exactly unbiased on this issue, lest we forget!). I think the same answer applies to both...if it makes good business sense, and the market will bear it, then it will happen. The fact that it does not happen leads me to believe that is either not fiscally viable, or simply that there are safer bets. Your idea of drafting in a management team sounds like reality TV gold, however...
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#240892 - 04/29/07 11:52 AM
Re: Latino Porn
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 03/11/07
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston
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Quote:
Houston Don, I'm talking about a product arm featuring spanish speaking performers created for the spanish speaking world. Fill in the names you want or new ones can be discovered. The american porn market is saturated with content so its time to expand to other markets.
I'm not disagreeing with you in general terms, I'm just pointing out that there are/have been attempts to provide that type of content already. Marketing in porn, like most other aspects of the industry, is fairly limited; both by the production companies and by the media that routinely disallow them to advertise in most outlets. Unlike the others, I think you're right that it's an area in need of more substantive content ("black porn" sells well to whites or I don't think so many would be chasing it).
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The critism of this business aproach keeps marshalling down racial and xenophobic stereotypes to gross generalizations that are unfounded. Hispanics acheive the american dream in far greater numbers than blacks. The disrespect for the buying power of the latino dollar is stunning. Enjoy the slowdown and keep sticking your collective head in the sand.
I'm friends with a number of Latinos, currently going out with a very nice Latina, and interact with a bunch of others. Any observations I make will be anecdotal too but my other friends (various colors/races/ect) share a lot of the same stereotypes since most of the contact they have is with the illegals hanging out around paint stores and construction yards hoping to find work or those working in the Mexican food restaurants. I'm not sure if catering to such a niche using the old fashioned delivery system (DVD at the moment) will necessarily yield any great increase in sales though.
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Really, these portrayals of all latins as dishwashers and criminals are more than just a little ignorant. Do a little research into how much money these people make before you speak.
I don't think many believe what you're claiming but they are "going with the numbers" of what they see. Latinos in the upper economic strata tend to stay within their own circles (which applies to other groups as well); as their numbers grow, the stereotypes will hold less sway.
_________________________
"I'm rich. I'm a strong, trained fighter. I own a gun. And I am completely...fucking ... psychotic." Kurt Lockwood ranting yet again
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#240893 - 04/29/07 12:55 PM
Re: Latino Porn
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Porn Fucking Master
Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 3724
Loc: Paddling my canoe in the wild
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Quote:
Really, these portrayals of all latins as dishwashers and criminals are more than just a little ignorant. Do a little research into how much money these people make before you speak.
I think that you are unfairly playing the racist card here. Given that your underlying premise is that there is an untapped market for spanish-language porn by American studios, that puts an analysis of cultural 'norms' front and center in the argument. You titled the thread "Applying business concepts to Porn", and this discussion is doing exactly that.
First principles in analyzing the business model are whether there is a need to fill and whether you can do so at a profit.
American Porn is a sub-set of the American entertainment industry. It succeeds on an international level not because it caters to local predilections, but for the opposite reason - it trades on American cultural hegemony.
For example, Hollywood films do much better in European countries than their indigenous cinema does, notwithstanding that the local product is of high quality and speaks to their cultural experiece (well, more than Hollywood does anyways).
As far as the directors of Goya or the president of Proctor & Gamble are concerned - is there any evidence that ultra-wealthy hispanics would consume hispanic themed pornography if there was greater supply? There are wealthy blacks too (plenty of them), are they generally consuming Pirates or Ghetto Gaggers 13? I suspect the former, just like the rest of the world. If my guess is correct, then your suggestion is really to create a niche market (Hispanic-themed gonzo porn) to a niche market (gonzo porn), to a niche market (porn). A handful (let's say 250,000) of successful American hispanic business-people is hardly a large enough market sector for such a specialized product (what's next - Hispanic spanking lesbian movies)?
All of the above notwithstanding, Playboy DOES have a Spanish language cable channel which I have flipped past on occasion - near as I can tell, there is almost no original programming (and Nightcalls 411 in dubbed Spanish is not strokeworthy at all).
_________________________
You're all still alive?
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#240895 - 04/29/07 01:15 PM
Re: Latino Porn
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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I'm not suggesting that every hispanic lives like Carlos Helu or own telephonos de mexico, thats clearly not the case. But the fact is that hispanics (especially Cubans) succeeed at attaining the american dream far more than blacks who have in the country since slavery. I've seen the studies on hispanic buying power and it suffices to say they can afford porn. Even the comapnies that do offer spanish porn (like playboy) do it in a relative half assed way. Create latin porn stars for latin people and you will expand your market of consummers.
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"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240896 - 04/29/07 01:45 PM
Re: Latino Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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I have no first-hand knowledge, but from what I've read, the younger generation of Cuban-Americans (those born here, post-revolution) are rapidly striving to create an identity for themselves as Americans rather than as Cubans. They speak spanish, but not primariy as a first lancuage like most illegals and some Newyoricans I've known. This generation gap is one of the primary sources of tension and debate in the Cubano community as to whether or not relations should be normalized between the US and the old country: The Young Turks saying Si; the Old Guard saying No.
(I do know a little about the Old Guard: In 1964 my dad was instumental in helping a Cubano guy he worked with at Bankers Trust gain expidited citizenship. It did not hurt at all that the year before, Dad had Top Secret Security Clearance as a member of Air Force Security. I met the guy a few times. I could easily see him as being part of Bernard Barkers team of Cuban Watergate Burglars.)
My question is: Since these younger Cuban-Americans would be the ones buying porn, wouldn't they be buying porn in English?
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240898 - 04/29/07 02:07 PM
Re: Latino Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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dude, advocating marketing to hispanophones in the americas because they're a growing "demographic" the way you did is just as ignorant as anything i said, the difference i knew i was doing it. do you think a second-gen colombian kid going to miami who grew up in biscayne playing the trumpet or lacrosse and taking german and a first-gen mexican with no education doing shitty work are going to throw money at you the same way? your two biggest "hispanic" markets speak different languages, some nationalities HATE others-congrats on trying to lump 23 countries together based on race and language and try to sell to them.
the truth is, nobody knows how the fuck to sell to them-you can reach signifigant market penetration pretty easily if your demographic wants what you're selling. it's the getting them to PAY FOR IT that's elusive.
i'm a racist for saying people who speak spanish and use spanish-language products don't enjoy paying for them because a bunch of strategic-consultants with last names like chavez keep explaining the goldmine you could be mining?
explain why spanish-language media is subject to the highest rate of piracy according to the riaa and mpaa?
fucking mtv and nickelodeon have AWESOME RATINGS in central and south america. you know why? THEY HAD TO GIVE THEIR PRODUCT AWAY FREE ON UHF. they chose to "capture" markets they had to adjust their way of getting paid for it so much by accomodating the fact there simply aren't enough people who can pay for cable there. so they bit the bullet and figured they could lose some money to make some money. it's yet to come.
want to stage a concert in mexico city? you'd be doing it strictly for the fans that would steal your cd's later like the american music industry did sending free concert aouth.
a million people can tell you how to market to people who speak spanish, there's little empirical evidence they know how. but consultants need to bill hours and telling you how you'll have no future if you don't increase your spending 900% on all-things spanish.
they're using population numbers that may simply never yield disposable income. for every third-gen kid who ends up going to college and getting hired by a white shoes firm in ny or your chief of goya 20 from their same "demographic" won't get a ged. the numbers aren't there-they're simply not getting the education and it's partially due to people "wanting" things to be something they're not like bi-lingual education working at all.
asians and indians assimilate and succeed in numbers that really do suggest hispanics are just this centuries' blacks as an ethnic group in america. the "family" thing you're told is essential to reach them doesn't take into account the explosion of unwed-latinas getting knocked up and let's face it-there's always a need for cheap labor and we know what massive socioeconomic leaps look like by a group and this don't fit simply by looking at the educational component inherent to everyone who's done it before
the best way to make money targeting spanish-speaking people in this hemisphere is to wait until a organically-latino company succeeds in your industry selling what you do then you buy it at a very reasonable price. yahoo did it. citigroup did it. the hispanic marketing boards and consultants make a living telling you how important it is for you to listen to them. i work with them, their results suck. other than a coca-cola you're better off buying whatever grows by itself in the market.
i don't have an answer to how to make money here, but it's pretty easy to put together a phillipic on how NOT to make money and that's by making huge generalizations that don't work.
the only people worse about whipping up jobs for themselves without delivering results or proof they've got a clue than the ones that tell you how to sell to hispanics are the fucking sinologists. total scam but the reports write themselves.
_________________________
"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#240899 - 04/29/07 02:25 PM
Re: Latino Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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Quote:
dude, advocating marketing to hispanophones in the americas because they're a growing "demographic" the way you did is just as ignorant as anything i said, the difference i knew i was doing it. do you think a second-gen colombian kid going to miami who grew up in biscayne playing the trumpet or lacrosse and taking german and a first-gen mexican with no education doing shitty work are going to throw money at you the same way? your two biggest "hispanic" markets speak different languages, some nationalities HATE others-congrats on trying to lump 23 countries together based on race and language and try to sell to them.
James makes my point about the difference between struggling immigrants and second-gens, and goes further: There really is no "Latino Market." There is no Homogenous, Monolithic Hispanic Culture. In my experience, it's considered a sport to insult your buddies by calling them a nationality to which they don't belong. Even here at XPT. Witness El G and Chico, two guys I like, call each other "Salvadoran." From what I've seen: Mexicans don't like Cubanos. Cubanos don't like Dominicanos. And Dominicanos don't like anybody.
BTW: This is the same mistake the Democratic Party consistantly and persistantly makes when trying to court Latino voters. You just can't use the same Schtick in Spanish Harlem as you do in Bill Richardson Country, and it's one of the things that's killing the Party.Karl Rove got it, and exploited it to the hilt Twice. I wish we Dems would finally learn.
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240900 - 04/29/07 02:34 PM
Cultural Learnings of America for Porn Benefit
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Internet Tough Guy
Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 786
Loc: on the dark side of the moon
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[Referring to Pamela Anderson's character in "Baywatch" = Blueprint for the popular American Sex Icon, Porn Actress, Cheerleader, Playboy Playmate, Barbie doll, etc]
This C.J. was like no Kazakh woman I have ever seen. She had golden hair, teeth as white as pearls, and the asshole of a seven-year-old. For the first time in my lifes, I was in love.
Borat
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#240901 - 04/29/07 03:14 PM
Re: Cultural Learnings of America for Porn Benefit
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Human Garbage
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 1557
Loc: New York
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For the several people who contacted me thinking I am hispanic, I'm not. Do you think a Vault 100 lawfirm would hire a latino. (sarcasm).
For what its worth James is the only one who I did not think was being racist or xenophobic. Mostly because he showed his math and his reasons were more than just "spics are poor".
He's actually first person who has explained what he seems to conclude is a scam in a convincing way. I still think the pornographers are just being lazy though.
Thanks. i have a plane to catch now.
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"This thing is ready to do damage!"
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#240902 - 04/29/07 03:17 PM
Re: Cultural Learnings of America for Porn Benefit
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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What's racist about stating things you've actually seen? Strange definition. Oh well. Have a good flight.
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240904 - 04/29/07 05:04 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Demon Spawn
Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 3080
Loc: cleanup
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I don't get it either, HD. I don't see any of the above being racist against Latinos. Now This is racist against Latinos *CLICKY*. Tell you the truth, it's grounless accusations of being a "Racist Misogynist Oppressor" (for simply being a white male) in 27 simultaneous threads that led me to tell Steph that I quit AZT yesterday. Oh well, I'm sure it's just an abberation.
_________________________
"When you're up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember that you set out to drain the swamp" -- HST
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#240906 - 04/29/07 10:55 PM
Re: Applying Business Concepts to Porn
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
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I assume Telemundo's target market is not Spanish-only speakers, but rather those who do speak English well enough to get a job that pays well even though Spanish is still their first language. Any Spanish-only speakers are welcome to inflate the viewership numbers but advertisers are probably buying based on the number of dual-language viewers (for disposable income). I'm assuming Telemundo etc make money but don't know how profitable it is to lock out the much-larger English-speaker market. I can think of two potentially unique problems to porn: 1. The cost of doing an acceptable dub into Spanish, while cheap, might be a big cost in the budget of most porn. It depends on how crappy a result the market lets you get away with. If dubbing only sells an extra 300 units how much do you spend on it? And more likely, what if you can't see any difference in sales between dubbed and standard units? Finally, once you know how much dubbing will cost, can you put the money into some other aspect of production and help sales even more (i.e., hire more-expensive talent etc)? (the last point is that when budget is increased you start over on how to spend it all: if you get to spend an extra $1000 the question is how you now best invest the total; it's not the case you blindly assume the base budget can't be improved on) 2. It might be a moot issue entirely if Spanish-speakers watch porn the way English-speakers do: with the sound turned off. There have been a few Spanish-language releases such as Sineplex's Chica Chico last fall (US porn talent but moaning in Spanish). I don't know if they dubbed an English language track onto it.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock
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