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...or are you dropped from the sky?

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Yes, what you say is true and please to do not make light of the issue. Thank you.

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wait a second...i thought europeans created america, + a bunch of slaves from africa, or are you dropped from the sky?

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Europeans love to take credit for America, but none of the blame for slavery and killing off the Indians. Fuck the European socialists & that lefty kook Howard Dean. Too bad we saved that continent from Hitler & eventually Stalin.

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Too bad we saved that continent from Hitler & eventually Stalin.

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Europeans love to take credit for America, but none of the blame for slavery and killing off the Indians.

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Too bad we saved that continent from Hitler & eventually Stalin.

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You're making a lot of confusion buddy: Stalin stopped Hitler, when the allied army landed in Normandy, German army was history already, most of it lost in the russian winter.
You probably watched too much hollywood ww2 movies, i wont blame you for that.

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Stalin would've made a move for Germany then more of Europe, don't delude yourself. Russia didn't stop Hitler alone bitch...Typical of you ungrateful Europeans.

btw, I got my info from books and veterans, not Hollywood.

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Too bad we saved that continent from Hitler & eventually Stalin.

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You're making a lot of confusion buddy: Stalin stopped Hitler, when the allied army landed in Normandy, German army was history already, most of it lost in the russian winter.
You probably watched too much hollywood ww2 movies, i wont blame you for that.

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Stalin would've made a move for Germany then more of Europe, don't delude yourself. Russia didn't stop Hitler alone bitch...Typical of you ungrateful Europeans.

btw, I got my info from books and veterans, not Hollywood.

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A bit of balance to the argument from an American proud of our effort in WWII.

I trust as a good historian in gathering research Smutmutant consulted veterans and history which were not solely American.

The US supplied the Russians with an enormous amount of $$$ to defeat the Nazis. But, those were RUSSIAN bodies littering the field. The tide of the war was turned in Stalingrad (winter 1942 to early 1943 - the bloodiest batttle in all human history)and Kursk (July 1943 - the largest tank battle in history). Kursk is all but a full year before D-Day.

The purpose of a "second front" was both to ease the conflict for the Russians and strengthen the western democracies in bargaining with Stalin. Without our successes in France, Germany and the low countries, it is very likely that Stalin would have absorbed much if not all of Europe as Smutmutant pointed out.

Totalitarian states such at the USSR and Nazi Germany can lose countless soldiers without losing state power. Not so for democracies which have always had issues of holding power while at war. America was attacked by Japan. Germany declared war on America. For most Americans the fight was in the Pacific. Losing countless lives in Europe without total victory against Japan would be political suicide and a tactical military disaster.

We lost a great deal of good men at D-Day but it was no Gettysburg or Antietam. Our TRUE D-Day likely would have come with the invasion of the Japanese home islands - estimates ran from 500,000 - 1,000,000 allied casualities. My mom's two brothers, who had been in the Marines since early '42, likely would have died in this conflict if not for the A-bomb.

Also please don't forget that the Canadians and British - among others - lost lies taking Normandy beachs on 6/6/44.

On the US foundation: America was founded by men from western Europe with the exploited labor of many. The exploitation of immigrants such as the Chinese and the Irish, for example, pales in comparison to the crime of black slavery.

Like a great number of Americans, I have no ties to slavery. My relatives came here from eastern Europe after the Civil War mostly in the early 1900s.

To me the great american crime and the source of racial enmity is not slavery, but the Jim Crow laws. In 1865 all slaves were acknowledged as citizens but good Americans did nothing when black rights were abrogated. And, my relatives did nothing about that for years.

Blacks were slaves in west Africa before any white man owned one. And, ALL slaves from Africa were sold to the EUROPEAN slave ships by fellow AFRICANS. So there is blame for slavery in Europe, Africa and the Americas.


Let the pounding of my point of view begin.

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Stalin would've made a move for Germany then more of Europe, don't delude yourself. Russia didn't stop Hitler alone bitch...Typical of you ungrateful Europeans.

btw, I got my info from books and veterans, not Hollywood.

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Funny how the Eurotrash forget that their heroes, the Soviets, CREATED the war through the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and the Soviets were getting crushed until American entry into the war gave them actual weapons to fight with and a divided German force via the Western front and North Africa. The Soviets were losing badly without allies.

Thanks for the thread, King! I have a lot of pent-up aggression and Gonzo Girl's ass belongs to someone else.

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it'll be pretty interesting when in about 20 years time either china or india becomes the world's dominant economic power.

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That's when Australia becomes Canada...

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say a south-east asian country invades us, what are the chances of the US actually coming to help?

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Phlogiston, sorry but u are talking crap, expecially when you say: "the Soviets were getting crushed until American entry into the war gave them actual weapons to fight with"... this is so wrong is not even funny.

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...in addition to agreeing not to attack each other, Germany and the USSR had also agreed to overrun the countries that lay between them. Specifically, they agreed that Germany and the USSR would each take over one half of Poland, with a further provision that the USSR would take over Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia without German interference.

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Phlogiston, sorry but u are talking crap, expecially when you say: "the Soviets were getting crushed until American entry into the war gave them actual weapons to fight with"... this is so wrong is not even funny.

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Sorry, but the Soviets were getting beaten by the wehrmacht until American war materials arrived en masse. The Soviets didn't have the industrial capacity to arm all of its soldiers. During Stalingrad, the USSR could only issue a rifle to every third soldier, with the remaining two being issued a stripper clip of ammunition to feed into the crusty Mosin-Nagant rifle dropped by the armed soldier should he be killed.

Of course you fail to acknowledge the Moltov-Ribbentrop pact, which was a collaboration between both the USSR and Nazi Germany to conquer Eastern Europe. Courtesy of SparkNotes, since I am "talking crap":

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...in addition to agreeing not to attack each other, Germany and the USSR had also agreed to overrun the countries that lay between them. Specifically, they agreed that Germany and the USSR would each take over one half of Poland, with a further provision that the USSR would take over Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia without German interference.

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Just for fun, let's recall the Marshall Plan, which allowed Euope to be rebuilt from ruins and subsequently spoiled the supermajority of Europeans to become a bunch of worthless crybabies incapable of engaging in any useful activity of any sort. The Soviets, which Europeans seem to have such a fetish for, helped you in no way.

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Phlogiston, sorry but u are talking crap, expecially when you say: "the Soviets were getting crushed until American entry into the war gave them actual weapons to fight with"... this is so wrong is not even funny.

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Sorry, but the Soviets were getting beaten by the wehrmacht until American war materials arrived en masse. The Soviets didn't have the industrial capacity to arm all of its soldiers. During Stalingrad, the USSR could only issue a rifle to every third soldier, with the remaining two being issued a stripper clip of ammunition to feed into the crusty Mosin-Nagant rifle dropped by the armed soldier should he be killed.

Of course you fail to acknowledge the Moltov-Ribbentrop pact, which was a collaboration between both the USSR and Nazi Germany to conquer Eastern Europe. Courtesy of SparkNotes, since I am "talking crap":

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...in addition to agreeing not to attack each other, Germany and the USSR had also agreed to overrun the countries that lay between them. Specifically, they agreed that Germany and the USSR would each take over one half of Poland, with a further provision that the USSR would take over Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia without German interference.

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Just for fun, let's recall the Marshall Plan, which allowed Euope to be rebuilt from ruins and subsequently spoiled the supermajority of Europeans to become a bunch of worthless crybabies incapable of engaging in any useful activity of any sort. The Soviets, which Europeans seem to have such a fetish for, helped you in no way.

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First off, America is #1, a-ok.

Re Germany v. Soviet Union, some could argue that Germany lost the way in the first week of December when the Russkies unleashed the counterattack around Moscow implementing the elite Siberian troops they pulled from the frontier opposite Japan. The Germans, seeing Moscow in the distance, exhausted and miserable from the winter, were suddenly confronted with an all-out counterattack and realized they had bitten off more than they could chew. A few days later, Pearl Harbor and the declarations of war...all and all, a bad week for Adolf.

Moreover, the T-34 was of Russian design and manufacture, and proved to be best pound-for-pound tank of the war, forcing the Germans to devise Panthers and Tigers to compensate. If the Americans invaded France with 1944-era T-34s instead of 1944-era Shermans, well, it would've been a lot easier.

4 out of 5 German soldiers who died, died on the Eastern Front; by June 1944, Germany was in the condition that Hitler ascribed to the Soviet Union in 1941:

"We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down"

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First off, America is #1, a-ok.

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Phlog, this is what I was sarcasm or not

Let's talk about the Normandy Invasion, but no, this a porn board. Who cares...we should be talking about who makes better porn and that's a no brainer. Nobody won the war single handedly, I never said that. Face it, if it weren't for the US, Britain and other allies you euro fucks would be speaking Russian instead of German and calling WW2 the Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna. Put that in your history books and shove it....

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to say that no one in europe could build an america is silly- the british, the spanish, the french, the dutch and the portuguese all built empires at one stage in the not too distast past.

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obviously, you could nuke us pretty easy as well, which is why we're so friendly, so the nukes are on our side.

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say a south-east asian country invades us, what are the chances of the US actually coming to help?

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it'll be pretty interesting when in about 20 years time either china or india becomes the world's dominant economic power.

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We would never nuke you guys. We love the Aussies. They usually have our back when no one else does. Besides we would never nuke a country that invented these.

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Moreover, the T-34 was of Russian design and manufacture, and proved to be best pound-for-pound tank of the war, forcing the Germans to devise Panthers and Tigers to compensate. If the Americans invaded France with 1944-era T-34s instead of 1944-era Shermans, well, it would've been a lot easier.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Walter_Christie

Pz-Kw 5 vs. a Kommie...my money is on the Panther

I have to begrudgingly give Ivan credit for the diesel powerplant compared to our mass produced "Ronson Lighters."

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speaking of canada...

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The official beer of XXXporntalk!

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Moreover, the T-34 was of Russian design and manufacture, and proved to be best pound-for-pound tank of the war, forcing the Germans to devise Panthers and Tigers to compensate. If the Americans invaded France with 1944-era T-34s instead of 1944-era Shermans, well, it would've been a lot easier.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Walter_Christie

Pz-Kw 5 vs. a Kommie...my money is on the Panther

I have to begrudgingly give Ivan credit for the diesel powerplant compared to our mass produced "Ronson Lighters."

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Nice Wiki link. Quoting from same:

"The two Christie tanks, falsely documented as agricultural farm tractors, were sold without prior approval of the U.S. Army or Department of State, and were shipped without turrets to the Soviet Union. Christie even concluded an oral agreement to provide personal technical support services to the U.S.S.R.[3] The Soviets later improved upon the basic Christie tank design, adopting its sloping front armor for its BT tank series of infantry tanks. The BT itself was further refined into the famous Soviet T-34 tank of World War II, retaining the sloping front armor design, now adopted for side armor as well.

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Following the outbreak of World War II in 1939 and the United States' entry into the hostilities in 1941, Christie again submitted various tank designs to the army, all of which featured his suspension system and large, convertible road wheels. But as with his earlier dealings with the army, attempts to secure U.S. government adoption ended largely in frustration and rejection. He died at Falls Church, Virginia on January 11, 1944, nearly broke, as the tanks based on his designs were shaping the course of world history."