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#179665 - 07/19/06 10:57 PM Tut's gem hints at space impact
ChickenMaster Offline
Demon Spawn

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 3178
BBC News:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm



In 1996 in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, Italian mineralogist Vincenzo de Michele spotted an unusual yellow-green gem in the middle of one of Tutankhamun's necklaces.

The jewel was tested and found to be glass, but intriguingly it is older than the earliest Egyptian civilisation.

Working with Egyptian geologist Aly Barakat, they traced its origins to unexplained chunks of glass found scattered in the sand in a remote region of the Sahara Desert.

But the glass is itself a scientific enigma. How did it get to be there and who or what made it?

Sky of fire

An Austrian astrochemist Christian Koeberl had established that the glass had been formed at a temperature so hot that there could be only one known cause: a meteorite impacting with Earth. And yet there were no signs of an impact crater, even in satellite images.

American geophysicist John Wasson is another scientist interested in the origins of the glass. He suggested a solution that came directly from the forests of Siberia.

"When the thought came to me that it required a hot sky, I thought immediately of the Tunguska event," he tells Horizon.

In 1908, a massive explosion flattened 80 million trees in Tunguska, Siberia.

Although there was no sign of a meteorite impact, scientists now think an extraterrestrial object of some kind must have exploded above Tunguska. Wasson wondered if a similar aerial burst could have produced enough heat to turn the ground to glass in the Egyptian desert.

Jupiter clue

The first atomic bomb detonation, at the Trinity site in New Mexico in 1945, created a thin layer of glass on the sand. But the area of glass in the Egyptian desert is vastly bigger.

Whatever happened in Egypt must have been much more powerful than an atomic bomb.

A natural airburst of that magnitude was unheard of until, in 1994, scientists watched as comet Shoemaker-Levy collided with Jupiter. It exploded in the Jovian atmosphere, and the Hubble telescope recorded the largest incandescent fireball ever witnessed rising over Jupiter's horizon.

Mark Boslough, who specialises in modelling large impacts on supercomputers, created a simulation of a similar impact on Earth.

The simulation revealed that an impactor could indeed generate a blistering atmospheric fireball, creating surface temperatures of 1,800C, and leaving behind a field of glass.

"What I want to emphasise is that it is hugely bigger in energy than the atomic tests," says Boslough. "Ten thousand times more powerful."

Defence lessons

The more fragile the incoming object, the more likely these airborne explosions are to happen.

In Southeast Asia, John Wasson has unearthed the remains of an event 800,000 years ago that was even more powerful and damaging than the one in the Egyptian desert; one which produced multiple fireballs and left glass over three hundred thousand square miles, with no sign of a crater.

"Within this region, certainly all of the humans would have been killed. There would be no hope for anything to survive," he says.

According to Boslough and Wasson, events similar to Tunguska could happen as frequently as every 100 years, and the effect of even a small airburst would be comparable to many Hiroshima bombs.

Attempting to blow up an incoming asteroid, Hollywood style, could well make things worse by increasing the number of devastating airbursts.

"There are hundreds of times more of these smaller asteroids than there are the big ones the astronomers track," says Mark Boslough. "There will be another impact on the earth. It's just a matter of when."

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#179666 - 07/19/06 11:05 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
k1ng Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 6557
Loc: 2004 - the glory days
Cool!
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#179667 - 07/19/06 11:20 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
Interesting stuff.

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#179668 - 07/22/06 01:02 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
JRV Offline
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Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Gee, where to start?

There is another heat source that can melt sand into glass - volcanoes! And there are plenty of those in Africa...

No air blast meteor will spread glass over 300,000 square miles. The blast would have to happen very high just to get that area within the horizon, and the air is thin up there... It needs an impact, not a Tunguska air-blast.

The Shoemaker-Levy analogy has problems. Jupiter is a gas giant and meteors can penetrate a long way in the atmosphere: all of the energy is released in air-blasts. Earth is a rocky planet with an extremely thin atmosphere and a meteor of any size is going to impact the surface almost immediately; only a few small meteors are going to be able to vaporize before impacting.

In any case, before resorting one more time to the meteor excuse I'd like to see a reason why this didn't come from the other obvious source: volcanic eruptions.
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#179669 - 07/22/06 01:51 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
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Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
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Quote:

In any case, before resorting one more time to the meteor excuse I'd like to see a reason why this didn't come from the other obvious source: volcanic eruptions.




Jupiter, as far as I know, has no active volcanos. Only Io, it's moon, has volcanic activity. Jupiter however, Sir, has a core hotter than the Sun... and therefore, this could be the reason for this conclusion. Also remember Jupiter is much bigger than our Sun (it's barycenter with the Sun actually lies above the Sun's surface (1.068 solar radii from the Sun's center).

I hope this is reason enough to change your conclusion and help you see "why this didn't come from the other obvious source".

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#179670 - 07/22/06 07:26 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
cumalloverher Offline
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Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 1704
Loc: *quah quah quah quah*
Quote:

Quote:

In any case, before resorting one more time to the meteor excuse I'd like to see a reason why this didn't come from the other obvious source: volcanic eruptions.




Jupiter, as far as I know, has no active volcanos. Only Io, it's moon, has volcanic activity. Jupiter however, Sir, has a core hotter than the Sun... and therefore, this could be the reason for this conclusion. Also remember Jupiter is much bigger than our Sun (it's barycenter with the Sun actually lies above the Sun's surface (1.068 solar radii from the Sun's center).

I hope this is reason enough to change your conclusion and help you see "why this didn't come from the other obvious source".







You are correct, lopside. But Jupiter do have tangerine trees and marmalade skies. I met a girl there who had diamonds on the soles of her shosen and calliope eyes.

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#179671 - 07/22/06 08:34 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
c62 Offline
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Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
Quote:

Also remember Jupiter is much bigger than our Sun



Actually the sun is about 10x bigger than Jupiter. Here
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#179672 - 07/22/06 01:47 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
JRV Offline
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Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
... and, Jupiter's core is not hotter than the Sun. No part of Jupiter has ever been hot enough to ignite fusion; the Sun's core is obviously that hot.

My objection is that these guys seem to have taken the easy way out and invoked the hip theory of the day - meteor impacts - without explaining why a simple cause like volcanic eruption didn't do it. There are lot more eruptions than large impacts in Africa.
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#179673 - 07/22/06 02:40 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
John Floofin Offline
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Registered: 02/04/05
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Loc: The Dirty: 480
The most likely source of overheated gasses in Egypt would be the "Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities", Dr. Zahi Hawass. Oh Snap, yes I did!

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#179674 - 07/22/06 03:03 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
ebola Offline
Ed Hardy Wearing Loser

Registered: 06/16/06
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#179675 - 07/22/06 06:51 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
That's strange, I honestly remember seeing a documentary that said Jupiter had a damn hot core.. but I guess I was drunk and Carl Sagan does talk weird anyway. Sorry about that folks.. check the cool pictures above though..
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#179676 - 07/22/06 09:41 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Jupiter's core is hot, but not hot enough for fusion or it would still be burning today (albeit on the "low" oven setting). The Sun is hot enough for fusion. I'm not sure how much the heat difference is, but it's got to be at least that much...

Jupiter does radiate excess heat - more than it gets from the Sun - but this is left-over heat from its formation eons ago it is still slowly radiating. Earth is likewise still radiating excess heat from formation but only a few extra degrees more.

Those are great pics - I've saved them.
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#179677 - 07/22/06 10:23 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
Quote:

Jupiter does radiate excess heat - more than it gets from the Sun




I think that's what I meant to say...

I don't know why I don't agree with the theory of volcanic activity (especially in Africa). The "biggest" eruption in Africa I know of happened in Eritrea in 1861 and wasn't even as bad as Krakatoa.
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I hit her with the hammer on top of the head. She made a lot of noise and kept on making noise, so I hit her again.

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#179678 - 07/23/06 01:03 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
Well, the best real-world hint I can think of is diamonds - all those diamonds came out through volcanoes and there are a lot found in Africa...

From memory I think there's more mantle plum activity under Africa than any other continent, and the average elevation is much higher than any other continent. So even if activity is low recently there's reason to suspect it's been much more active in the recent past (thousands to millions of years).

A lot of time when I see stuff like this invoking meteor impacts I suspect it goes something like this - "Well, that grant is used up - no more trips to tropical paradise islands for more 'research' - but gotta get a paper published to justify using up all that grant money, so just say it was an asteroid since that doesn't require any field work".

Volcanoes may not work, but before invoking much rarer impacts someone needs to, for example, go to Hawaii and look under one of the old lava flows that went across a beach and into the ocean, and see if any of the sand melted into glass. If it didn't, then explain why it might be that it doesn't ever happen elsewhere either. Only then appeal to some other process that is orders of magnitude less common to explain the glass.

Impacts are almost a modern snake oil in science, except that they do happen and the really big (and rare) ones are major events (with very uncertain results). The lunar formation theories really need an impact but most other theories that invoke impacts (dinosaur K-T etc) seem not to worry about whether an impact is the likeliest answer or even particularly plausible.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#179679 - 07/23/06 01:23 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
Hey Mister, you have a good argument, however I beg to differ. I know Africa is responsible for almost 50% of the worlds diamonds, but it's mostly the Southern part of the continent (most of which doesn't even have any more volcanic activity) which is responsible for this. Countries such as South Africa and Zimbabwe have been shown to have the richest deposits of diamonds, but don't forget there are other deposits in India.

If Kilimanjro was still active, perhaps I would lean more towards the theory you support, but because like Longonot , this Mountain is extinct, I tend to "believe" that Jupiter could have something to do with it. After all, the gas giant isn't extinct yet.






Attachments
173301-233454.jpg (2 downloads)

_________________________
I hit her with the hammer on top of the head. She made a lot of noise and kept on making noise, so I hit her again.

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#179680 - 07/23/06 02:41 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
ben Offline
Pervert

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 2042
Loc: Ceara's bunny cage
Quote:

Hey Mister, you have a good argument, however I beg to differ. I know Africa is responsible for almost 50% of the worlds diamonds, but it's mostly the Southern part of the continent (most of which doesn't even have any more volcanic activity) which is responsible for this. Countries such as South Africa and Zimbabwe have been shown to have the richest deposits of diamonds, but don't forget there are other deposits in India.

If Kilimanjro was still active, perhaps I would lean more towards the theory you support, but because like Longonot , this Mountain is extinct, I tend to "believe" that Jupiter could have something to do with it. After all, the gas giant isn't extinct yet.









How does she fit into this thread?

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#179681 - 07/23/06 08:58 AM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
Willie D Offline

Porn Jesus

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 9184
Did someone say Betelgeuse?



Wait, oops, that's Beetle...awwscrewit!

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#179682 - 07/23/06 05:28 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
Quote:



How does she fit into this thread?




That's a good question, and to be perfectly honest with you, I'm not entirely certain.
_________________________
I hit her with the hammer on top of the head. She made a lot of noise and kept on making noise, so I hit her again.

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#179683 - 07/23/06 07:20 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
zenman Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 8160
Loc: Roma, Repubblica Italiana
Is Nelly Furtado a Spaniard? She looks Iberian.
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#179684 - 07/23/06 07:45 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
loopnode Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
Nope.. she's Portuguese.
_________________________
I hit her with the hammer on top of the head. She made a lot of noise and kept on making noise, so I hit her again.

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#179685 - 07/23/06 10:53 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
John Floofin Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
So yes, she is Iberian, and that's a killer avatar you got there Zen!

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#179686 - 07/23/06 11:41 PM Re: Tut's gem hints at space impact
Phlogiston Offline
Human Garbage

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
Now that Zen has retired Il Duce, shouldn't he also change his location to something applicable to Fayner? (Unless, of course, Zen is actually Roman.) We should make suggestions. I'll start.

Location: Somewhere living without dignity.

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