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If there is a major conventional conflict [state versus state] involving the US, its subs will just about win the war on their own. I don't think the Chinese have anything to match them.



With that said, it is an equalizer to the Iran situation given that the Persian Gulf offers up a soft, sandy bed for a Boomer to nap easily upont for 6 months at at time. The brinksmanship between the US and Iran is especially provacative in this sense, and in these times. I'm familiar with Iranian immigrants to the U.S. who've intimated to me that the general Iranian population is far more agreeable to U.S. philosophies and positions than not. There are U.S boomers parked off of Iran right now, where they will remain until this mess is resolved, have not doubt about that. Of course, this security offers up an amazing amount of leeway for say, a dipshit American president to push his goofy-ass agenda, but I digress . . . .

China can make my disposable camera, Nike's, and mountain bike, but they ain't gonna do shit beyond that, just ask Pericles.




Actually subs don't like the Persian gulf. Too shallow. They like deep water, gives them somewhere to hide. Somewhere to run if there is trouble. Plus of course when you run in water with a "bottom", you have to be more careful, coz u might just hit it if you're asleep at the wheel. Sub collisions happen a lot more than you'd think.

The US subs have been there a long time enforcing trade sanctions, enforcing no oil smuggling and such. They've been there for years. There isn't really an awful lot of justification for them except for espionage and covert drop-offs and pick-ups really.

Why would you put such a powerful sub in a pond full of rust bucket navies? The only real threat to any US ships is mines and speedboats. And even the most advanced torpedo would have trouble hitting a dingy.


And like I've tried without success to point out to phlog and c62, all you're doing is backing ppl into a corner. Iran has flirted with western ideals for a long time. It has a very young population. It even has jews and a jewish member of parliament last time I checked.

It was moving away from the old days of the mullahs. Like Iraq it was becoming more and more of a modern state with modern ideals.

Shitting all over Iraq, encircling Iran and constantly supporting Israel and all the sabre rattling is playing right into the hands of the old style religious hardmen.

But maybe that's what Bush wants? Bad Iran == reason to attack / invade etc. Iran and Iraq have really never been too much of a threat to anyone.

And Iraq has done more to strengthen and embolden Iran than they could have ever hoped for. In the old days the shia used to flee over to the border to predominatly shia Iran. Now they're pouring back over and making trouble for the sunnis and the occupiers for that matter.

Many say the whole nuclear business is just because they're using Russian technology rather than American. America has just agreed to give nuclear technologies to India, who many times have been a whisker away from all out war with its nuclear neighbour Pakistan, who've also received a lot of US military help of late, but no covert at least nuclear stuff.


I think you'd be suprised at China. Life there is very cheap. They don't need too much technology because they just steal it and copy it.

And as I also pointed out to phlog and c62, they are arming at an alarming rate. And whilst its easy to laugh off the US threat, it is very real.


They are major competitors for energy, and increasingly are having the money to outbid the US. And many countries are quite happy to supply them because the US has shit all over the energy supplying countries.

So I think you all underestimate the threat to the US of China. Even if its just for energy. But what is a society like the US, users of what is it 90%+? of the world's energy, without it? Fucked, that's what. China and India and to a lesser extent Russia are sucking up oil and gas and driving the prices up. And they have the money to pay for it. I'm not sure the US has.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.