First off, these posts are WWWWAAAAAYYYY too long WE BOTH need to shorten up a bit...

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If you believe that you would believe anything. Ask Karpinski. Ask that guy who names escapes me, Japanese origin I think it is.

If you believe torture is not a routinely used technique by the US military and its agents you are living in la-la land. There is so much evidence.

I mean for fucks sakes, Rummy and friends came out with a document on acceptable uses of torture. Seeing as how we're talking porn a lot of the stuff in the published document would get banned in porn.

Let's not forget the military especially in the states is recruited from the lower classes. No disrespect, but true. The red neck reservists from Virginia were just the tip of the iceberg.



College kids getting initated into fraternities go through worse than that. Your just one of those pussy-pillow-biting liberals who gets bent when we don't take shit from someone.

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There's been lots of media, doco crews from respected and generally unbiased media outlets that have shown as best they can it to be true.



"Can" be true is different than well documented "It Is" true. Please don't use the BBC as one of those sources, they lead the pack on anti-americanism.

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The US sponsored Osama and the mujahadeen in Afghanistan directly with money and arms against the Russians. There is some evidence they supported Chechen seperatists [muslims] against Russia in Chechnya too. You'll notice the US has gone very quiet on brow-beating the Russians over the genocide happening in Chechnya since 9/11.

Osama and various other US backed muslims were only targetted after 9/11.

There was a big story about Cheney inviting the taliban leadership over for a Texas BBQ to discuss oil pipelines through Afghanistan, a long held goal of many nations, just before 9/11.



Dude, whatever you don't use Micheal Moore as a reference, his "documentry" got punched full of holes.

The reason Fox news sounds different is because they do their own research/reporting instead of falling in step with the other left wing wacko new organizations that have become self appointed to create policy.

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What terrorists? Where?



Don't know if you guys caught this on the news down under, but a while back a few people got together and crashed some planes into our buildings, killed a bunch of people. Those terrorsts.

If the IRA/ETA decide to crash planes into our building we will ruin their shit just the same.

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Iraq is bad. Its going to get worse.



Maybe, maybe not. I don't hear the fat lady singing. I will admit things are not going well. You ever hear of a battle called "Guadalcana"? It started off badly too.

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Illegal invasion.



Not illegal

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Torture.



Again. A few isolated cases. If you keep telling yourself the U.S. military is out to get, you may actually start to believe that. You probably already do.

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Breach of Geneva convention.



Terrorists are not covered under the geneva conventions. When I was in the Navy, I carried an ID that stated specifically I was covered under the Geneva Conventions(Aussie Military does to). Quick question for ya? Why are you quick to critisize the U.S. so much for alleged torture. Why don't you critisize Al Queda for it? I haven't seen any U.S. Mil people jumping around with glee after sawing off someones head.

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Bombing civilians.



I like how you equate our bombing of civilians with terrorists bombing of civilians. U.S. Mil does everything to avoid collateral damage, terrorists do everything they can to increase it. Feel free to mix in some perspective.

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And that sort of arrogance about Europe and the UN seals the deal for a lot of ppl.



Thats comedy right there. Lets list off some of the Euro/UN successes shall we? Balkins, for years we told the Euros it was their problem and they should deal with it. The Euros bickered amongst themselves until B.Clinton said make it happen. Rwanda? Wow!! The way the UN stood up to the challenge and let their own troops get massacred, to say nothing about what happened to the rest of the country. Big success there UN!! When it comes down to it nothing happens in this world until America says make it happen. And then everyone bitches that it took America to make it happen.

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China, India and Russia are real threats to American ascendancy



Not really theats, china and india particurly will begin to have strong economies, in fact they are already growing quickly. Both value trade with the U.S. to start to much of a pissing contest.

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I don't know if Spain threw in the towel. And Spain didn't surrender in WW2, they were a neutral country, like Switzerland. So again, it appears to me you've shown ignorance of the facts.



I wasn't saying Spain surrendered in WW2. I was comparing how long it took them to surrender in the GWOT versus the time it took the French to surrender in WW2. Yes spain surrendered in GWOT.

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Mecca and Medina, cities in SA if you don't know, are two of the holiest places in Islam. And for percieved infidel crusaders like America to sully them is a huge insult to Islam.



I was aware of the significance of the two places. If Islam views our culture as bad and are deeply offended by being on SA territory(at the Govt of SA request) then they have deep flaws in their culture not ours. If you invite someone into your home, would you not welcome them? BTW we weren't at M/M sites specifically. The bases were pretty far from them(as I understand) it wasn't like we were standing in their shadows.

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I'll bring up the old chestnut. Kuwait and the middle east having oil had nothing to do with America intervening.



Oil has everything to do with it(or at least a major part of it). Your job depends on my country getting oil. The U.S. economy drives the global economy(at least into the foreseeable future).

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I mean there's at lest 10 countries in Africa at the moment that are butchering themselves in civil wars, where's the outrage? The international attention? The American intervention?



Can you please get your positions straight? First you say that the UN/Europe can handle these problems. Then why don't they? Then you get off a blast about the war in Iraq is an "Illegal invasion". Now you want us to go and whack an African nation? Which is it? Is America is the leader? Or not? America should intervine? Or not? Now you're the one reacting emotionally.

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Well what then is wrong with that statement? Its probably had the best outcome to date.



The only thing wrong was your use of the word "most", I agreed it was worth it to put a stop to the killing. We just removed the last of our troops about a year ago. Granted they were not having as difficult time as they would in Iraq, but they were only supposed to stay a year. That goes to show sometimes these things take longer than an hour minus comercial breaks.

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You can't kill every muslim.



We can get the ones that want to kill us. I'd rather fight them in Iraq than in the streets of New York/Los Angeles. If you have to fight them in the streets of Sydney you have already lost, your just trying to contain the damage. The GWOT must be offensive in nature.

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Radical leftist? There are right wing governments in Europe.



If that is your definition of right then..... Wow... I mean Wow....

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Doesn't change the fact the political climate in the US has changed markedly.



You're quite right. It has become more vicious since the Democrats(thats the left wing) in America were thrown from power.

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I'm no expert on the US economy. But most of what I've come across has pointed to it being in poor shape.



Its actually doing ok. Everybody compares it to the late '90s when everybody became rich during the internet boom. The '90s were an abnormal time, everybody got rich, it was free money. We paid for afterward, but we picked up the pieces and rebuilt it smarter. However, there are no instant millionares anymore.

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As for FEMA etc, Bush stacked it with cronies, which is where a lot of the problems started.



The probs with Katrina were not limited to FEMA. This is how I can tell you adhere to the lefty lib newsites. None of lefty news sites critisized the state govenor/city mayor even though they had specific duties/responsibilities as well. And they dropped the ball as badly as FEMA. Understand I am NOT excuseing FEMA/Bush on this one, I am just saying there is more blame to go around.

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And I hate wiggas. Funny how afro-americans are so downtrodden yada yada, yet lead American culture in so many respects.



Tru Dat, werd up dawg. Phat mad props to your homies!

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If you came here you would see it immediately.



I would love to. Seriously. I wanted to go when I was in the Navy, but our ship never made it down there. It takes two extra weeks to get there, plus a few days in port, and another two additional weeks to get to the gulf(thats on top of how long it takes us normally). Theres an Aussie girl you could introduce me to.

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We got screwed on the FTA with the US. That despite going all the way in Iraq, Afhganistan, and for that matter being the only country in the world to go to war with the US every single time.



What is FTA? Is that a free trade agreement? This is actually one of the areas I critisize Bush on. He screwed Poland as well(forgot what they were asking for). People who go with us(and yes the Aussies went with us everywhere, even Vietnam) should get special status.

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And when Fatah loses and Hamas gets in the Palestine, democratically, o no, we can't have that.



Not sure why your bringing this up(it may have something to do with the fact I'm handing you your ass). Everybody is pretty much over the fact that Hamas won(I don't understand why everybody was shocked, I saw it coming a mile off. Just wasn't sure if they could take a majority or not). Most will/should recognoze Hamas as the legit gov't of the Palestians. However, they shouldn't deal with them, because there is that little thing we call "Genocide". That when you swear to wipe out an entire culture of people(in this case jews).

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The point is, all this democracy bullshit is just that, bullshit. America has been coup-agitating, vote-rigging, revolution-supporting all over the world for decades.



Yes!! The man is out there keeping the brotha down!

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As hard as it is to face up to it, and as much as its going to be labelled as cutting and running and all those other bullshit terms, terrorism is only going to increase with the current course of action.



Actually bailing out now would make things worse. The last you or I want is the terrorists to think they have a chance of winnning, that more than anything will drive up their recruiting.

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So, get out of SA.



We've been out for quite a while. Prior to Iraq War v2.0

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Lean on Israel for an amicable settlement with the Palestinians.



Reward terrorism, didn't see that one coming from you. Whats next, give medals to mass murderers.

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Stop poking the islamic bear, especially Iran, Syria etc.



They will most likely get bombed, not invaded in the near future.

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Get over the dependance on oil.



Thats true, I'll give you that one.

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Islamic countries for the most part don't want America. If they want America, let them come.



Thats a huge part of the problem right there. There is no single voice coming from with Iraq saying "Come" or "Don't Come". The Shiites/Kurds wanted us to come, whereas the Sunnis want us to leave.

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about 23 celcius. It was 36 celcius yesterday



Since we're colonizing the world, you'll need to post that in Farenheit.

[Rant]
Everybody told us we'd lose WW2, we'd lose the Cold War against the Soviet Union. Now everybody is telling us we're going to lose this one. Not buying it. It will take a long time.
[/Rant]

Shit, after reading this I definately didn't shorten mine up.
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah