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Yes the old "Everything is a conspiracy theory" defence. Well Abu Ghraib was all whispers and conspiracies until the photos came out. There are so many examples it is pointless listing them where the conspiracy theory has been shown to be true.



One or two bad apples don't ruin the whole bunch. The U.S. Military has its fair share of shit heads. If it were Gov't policy to torture/abuse people, somebody/somewhere would have been smart enough to not take pictures.

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Most of them are just factional / tribal / ethnic rivals, and the Americans flying in with millions in cash for shit poor ppl was too good a chance to send your friends away for a long holiday.



You don't know that. Before you come back with "You don't know it either" line. Keep in mind that terrorists sometimes don't tell the truth. And by "sometimes" I mean never.

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Let's not forget America loved the Taliban up until 9/11. They loved Osama too don't forget.



No we didn't love the talibannies. If we loved Osama then why did we try to kill him with cruise missiles?

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FOX news is apparently the place most Americans get their news and information. Now if you can't see something wrong with that.



Enough with the Fox news is the republicans etc. etc. etc. Just because you give the Right-wingers a chance to speak in addition to the Left-wingers doesn't mean your a Bush lover. I've seen many of the pundits hammer the Bush Administration pretty hard. In fact they do it much better than most because they stick to facts and logic(something your entire post is devoid of).

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Dear o dear. I can clearly see there isn't going to be much hope of a logical argument with you. Which is ironic considering you are a programmer.

Kill em all, let god sort em out.



You failed to address the point I brought up completely. My point was how do you get terrorists off the street. And don't give the U.N. line, they don't call it the Useless Nations for nothing. If you think the terrorist are going to stop what they are doing because some cop says "Stop in the name of the law" you are more delusional than you may realize.

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Yes, coz Iraq has worked out so well. And Afghanistan. And Yemen is in no way a hot bed of terrorist activity anymore.



Your right about Iraq and the problems there, keep in mind no battleplan survives first engagement with the enemy. Have mistakes been made? Sure, point to a war where one wasn't. Afghanistan isn't that bad, a few problems along the Paki border. Believe or not Iraq isn't that bad either(yet), just a lot of negative news reporting. Save it, I know there is both good and bad happening there, my point is your not getting the full picture.

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You know, if it wasn't the United States doing a lot of this stuff, it would be classified as crimes against humanity, breaches of international law etc.



Such as? Most international law doesn't cover terrorist or is vague at best.

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I know this will elicit all sorts of "Well if you don't like us fuck off" responses, but the US in international relations is at an all time low.



Ok.... Well if you don't like us fuck off

We could care less how well we're liked. A lot of people(in other countries) say the Americans don't understand the world or international relations. To a degree they're right, but that critism cuts both ways, people from other countries don't understand America, and what we value and what we don't value. A lot of the worlds problems fall to our doorstep not because we want them, but where else are they going to go? U.N., Europe? [insert: smiley laughing hystaricly]

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Well Spain and England might disagree with you vis-a-vis terrorism and Europe. I think there is also the problem that Europe is a lot closer to the middle east so has many more muslim immigrants.



I don't know if England is considered a part of Europe or not. They seem kind of on the fence with that one. They're european when it benefits them. Spain threw in the towel on the GWOT after their attacks. Says alot about them when the French held on longer in WW2

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As for Islamic states, I've maintained all along that until America put bases in Saudi Arabia, then forgot to take them out, the most holy of holy Islamic lands, Mecca and Medina, islamic terrorists didn't have all that much interest in smiting America.



What does having military bases in S.A. have anything do with their hatred towards us? We have military base in Italy(->Rome, head of the Christian church) and yet Christians aren't going Jihadist on us. The fact is Islam fighting a civil war(well sort of) and we got dragged into it(as in Not By Choice). They wanted to kill us long before that.

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In fact they worked with them against the Russians in Chechnya and Afghanistan.



We didn't. We divided them up, S.A. took all the religous fanatics and we took the Afghans, that was the deal. None of the Afghans would take Americans(who were suppling weapons) near Bin Laden.

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I've heard arguments against the Saudi Arabia theory, but all the time lines seem to fit. Having a culture you find to be decadent and unholy occupying your most sacred lands would tick you off a bit.



They hated us long before that, it just gave them a reason. And since we left, they shouldn't mad at us anymore right? Them finding us "unholy" says a lot about their tolerance.

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I think on balance Slobbie and the Serbs started the war in the Balkans. The Croats pretty much just wanted to be left alone. The muslims, being the weakest of the 3, pretty much just wanted to be left alone too.

But the Serbs wanted to grab land and cleanse Kosovo of what they saw as the sub-human presence of the muslims.

A lot of the atrocities were tit-for-tat. But I think the Serbs had most of the killings.



I agree with what you said.

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I think of all the US interventions to date, that was probably the most necassary and correct.



But you lost it there. I don't know if you should use the word "most".

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I think America at the moment is a bit like a blinded wounded animal. Very angry, very sore, and lashing out violently and blindly with anger, not considered logic.



Nope, just determined to see this through.

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On here and other places that seems to be a common theme. "Everyone hates us, so fuck em, let's go blow someone up before they do it to us, muslims, Europeans, the UN, it was them, so let's go grease some towel-heads".



Most places that hate us are the radical left places like Europe/U.N., they don't like the fact we elected a right-winger for president, so their bent. They take their anger to such an extreme that they ignore the terrorist threat, because they don't like Bush's political "orientation"

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Today for instance on Meet The Press with Tim Russet [another US program!] there were two guys, an ex-army general and a US middle-east correspondant plugging a book that pans America's actions in Iraq.

Imagine doing that 12-18 months ago. They would have been lynched.



Just people trying to take advantage of the situation to get a few $$$$. A bunch of books came out saying Bill Clinton screwed up by not getting serious with Bin Laden earlier, it was some guy trying to cash in, nothing more, nothing less.

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It does, as I say, seem the tide has well and truly turned on the Bush administration, and events like Katrina and other fuck-ups such as the US economy are accelerating the process.



A lot of has to do with the news media and the Bush's PR policy. The news media hammers the Bush Administration and he doesn't get out there to defend himself or his policies. One of my main gripes with G.Dub is his inability to communicate his thoughts/vision. When he does it, he does it well, but not often enough. Katrina was a fuck up top to bottom. Federal, State, and Local people all share blame for that one. In America there are different rules(you probably know that) that came into play during the crisis that further fouled things up. The U.S. economy is actually improving drastically. Not sure where you going with that one.

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Have a look at out national music chart:
http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1S50

Plenty of white ghetto pimps and hood-rat sistas running around here.



I'll give you that one. Our bad.

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Australia is after all referred often here as the 51st state. Apart from maybe Canada, who we are in turn probably more like than America, we are more like America than any other country I can think of.



We actually consider you guys one of our closest allies in the world. Britain, and Japan are the other two. Hopefully no one in my country will forget that. Its too bad you guys are so far away, move your rock closer to us Canada is trying to be different from us for no other reason other than to be different.

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Getting dragged into pointless wars then getting shit all over as thanks is a bit of a sore point.



Hopefully the war will work out and its not pointless. Democracy is the best weapon(from a stregic stand point) that we have against terrorists. I hope you guys aren't getting shit all over, you guys got hit in Bali(well it wasn't in Australia, but alot of the people were aussies).

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Sorry for the length of my reply.



Don't worry about it, its Sunday, its raining, and I'm bored

P.S. I threw in the towel on spell checking this thing about half way through.
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah