Dude, seriously, quit watching the X-Files(I didn't know you guys got that down under) and all the other conspiracy shows. If someone croaks at Gitmo, people will find, interestingly the military is stickler for paperwork. As far as the snatch-n-grabs, if a cleric gets up and says "Go kill Americans" he will be picked up (usually with host government permission, but not official permission -- think "look the other way") and whisked off to some place where we can have a talk with him to find out who he told that to. And guess what, no American will care.


We get round the clock American TV. And if its not American its a rip-off of an American show. Its much cheaper to syndicate an American show than make one here.
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/TV/static/MelbourneNight.html?

Yes the old "Everything is a conspiracy theory" defence. Well Abu Ghraib was all whispers and conspiracies until the photos came out. There are so many examples it is pointless listing them where the conspiracy theory has been shown to be true.

You know what they say about an awful lot of Gitmo prisoners? Considering a lot of them are from Afghanistan? Most of them are just factional / tribal / ethnic rivals, and the Americans flying in with millions in cash for shit poor ppl was too good a chance to send your friends away for a long holiday.

Isn't it funny every western government IIRC except for America's lapdog, us, have all their nationals back from Gitmo? One of ours is back, but the other one, David Hicks was held without charge for almost 4 years, and has only recently been charged.

Let's not forget America loved the Taliban up until 9/11. They loved Osama too don't forget.

I think it has been well documented American media, especially up until recently when speaking out meant career death, have failed to inform the populace of much of what is going on.

FOX news is apparently the place most Americans get their news and information. Now if you can't see something wrong with that. I'm not saying America is dumb yada yada I'm saying its hard to see anything but reds under the bed etc when that is what you're constantly told. Rupert Murdoch has also been documented as being a great supporter of the Bush administration etc.

Its all nothing new. There are many Americans who say the same sorts of things.


As far as the assassinations are concerned, I don't get why your bent, would you rather we flatten an entire country to get one(handful of) guy(s). Your putting us in a "Damned if we do, damned if we don't" position. You get upset if we invade a country to get the terrorists and you get angry if we whack them without(or very little) civilian casualties. You need to wake up. Jihadist are not just going to wake up some morning and say " I will turn myself into the proper law enforcement officials for processing and a trial to determine my guilt/innocence". That thought process would be pure ignorance on your part.


Dear o dear. I can clearly see there isn't going to be much hope of a logical argument with you. Which is ironic considering you are a programmer.

Kill em all, let god sort em out.

Yes, coz Iraq has worked out so well. And Afghanistan. And Yemen is in no way a hot bed of terrorist activity anymore.

Super. More bombs, more killing, that will fix the problem.

You know, if it wasn't the United States doing a lot of this stuff, it would be classified as crimes against humanity, breaches of international law etc.

Which just goes to show history depends on who's side you're on. Just another general observation.


You need to stop believing everything the liberal news media says. They have hated Bush since day one, and they will say, or embellish, anything to get at him.

I avoid believing most things that are reported in the media. Ppl lie, they have agendas. I like to think I base my opinions and conclusions on logic and overwhelming evidence. I don't frequent conspiracy sites etc.

If you are a Bush supporter, again its going to be hard to have a logical discussion with you.

I know this will elicit all sorts of "Well if you don't like us fuck off" responses, but the US in international relations is at an all time low. Thanks to Bush.

And there are many documented instances of speeches etc that Bush and his administration have made that show an imperialistic outview.

I do think the tide in America is thankfully finally turning against Bush and friends and ppl are starting to wake up.


I too am guilty of this. I think a lot of Americans are becoming guilty of this as well. We perceive Europe as soft on terrorists, and most muslims states as part of the problem, not the solution.

I didn't realize how bad the KLA was until after the NATO "intervention". The problem in that part of the world(and there are more than I will list here) is that there were no good guys. All three of the main players(Croat, Serb, Muslim) were doing horrible things. However, sometimes in life you have to pick the solution that "sucks the least" instead of the best one, because there is no "best choice". I'm starting to think James Baker was right when he said "We don't have a dog in that fight". We probably should've stayed out of that one, hindsight is 20/20.


Again, thanks for being honest.

Well Spain and England might disagree with you vis-a-vis terrorism and Europe. I think there is also the problem that Europe is a lot closer to the middle east so has many more muslim immigrants.

So its not so quite cut and dried when a million, two million of your population are recent immigrants from hardline islamic states.

As for Islamic states, I've maintained all along that until America put bases in Saudi Arabia, then forgot to take them out, the most holy of holy Islamic lands, Mecca and Medina, islamic terrorists didn't have all that much interest in smiting America. In fact they worked with them against the Russians in Chechnya and Afghanistan.

Apart from the usual "Evil backer of evil Israel".

I've heard arguments against the Saudi Arabia theory, but all the time lines seem to fit. Having a culture you find to be decadent and unholy occupying your most sacred lands would tick you off a bit.

And as America encircles the middle east, and starts sticking its head into other muslim trouble spots like Indonesia, The Phillipines, The Sudan etc, it must feel rather like being surrounded on all sides.

And you know what they say about cornered rats.


As for the KLA, as I say, all depends on who's side you're on how history sees you. Now many Americans hate muslims in general, they are now bogeymen.

At the time they were freedom fighters, heros for their ppl against the evil Serbs.

I think on balance Slobbie and the Serbs started the war in the Balkans. The Croats pretty much just wanted to be left alone. The muslims, being the weakest of the 3, pretty much just wanted to be left alone too.

But the Serbs wanted to grab land and cleanse Kosovo of what they saw as the sub-human presence of the muslims.

A lot of the atrocities were tit-for-tat. But I think the Serbs had most of the killings.

I think of all the US interventions to date, that was probably the most necassary and correct.



I think America at the moment is a bit like a blinded wounded animal. Very angry, very sore, and lashing out violently and blindly with anger, not considered logic.

On here and other places that seems to be a common theme. "Everyone hates us, so fuck em, let's go blow someone up before they do it to us, muslims, Europeans, the UN, it was them, so let's go grease some towel-heads".

I also think many in America share my views, but up until recently many were too scared to speak out. Look at what happened to say The Dixie Chicks and others.

Today for instance on Meet The Press with Tim Russet [another US program!] there were two guys, an ex-army general and a US middle-east correspondant plugging a book that pans America's actions in Iraq.

Imagine doing that 12-18 months ago. They would have been lynched.



Man, when I said the Iraq war was going to be a huge huge mistake and the US was gunna get stung, there were ppl pretty much telling me they were gunna kill me from the US.

Anyone in America who questioned it was in deep deep do-do.

It does, as I say, seem the tide has well and truly turned on the Bush administration, and events like Katrina and other fuck-ups such as the US economy are accelerating the process.


And don't get all angry and say "Well fuck you, you're not American, what would you know" etc. As I say, I know my views are shared by many Americans, so its not being anti-American. Also the fact we are bombarded by Americana means many kids know more about America than their own country.

Have a look at out national music chart:
http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1S50

Plenty of white ghetto pimps and hood-rat sistas running around here.


Australia is after all referred often here as the 51st state. Apart from maybe Canada, who we are in turn probably more like than America, we are more like America than any other country I can think of.

Getting dragged into pointless wars then getting shit all over as thanks is a bit of a sore point.



Sorry for the length of my reply.