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#151815 - 03/11/06 01:03 PM
Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 7322
Loc: The Children's Limbo
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World leaders expressed surprise but little sorrow Saturday over the death of former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic, the man blamed for triggering the bloody Balkan conflicts of the 1990s and who was on trial for war crimes.
Many in the Balkans said they were dismayed Milosevic would never face justice. Others said his death could help the region move on from a troubled past.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said Milosevic had been a "malign influence" on the region.
"I hope very much that his passing will enable the people of Serbia better to come to terms with their past, which is the only way they can properly face the future," Straw said at a meeting of European Union foreign ministers in Salzburg, Austria.
The United States expressed no regret. State Department spokesman Tom Casey said Milosevic "was the principal figure responsible for the violent dismemberment of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, including the outbreak of two horrific wars in Bosnia and Kosovo."
"Milosevic's rule has long ended, and the United States supports a future for the Serbian people of peace, security, prosperity and greater integration with the Euro-Atlantic community," he said in a statement.
Milosevic, 64, was found dead Saturday in his bed at a U.N. prison near The Hague in The Netherlands. He had been standing trial before the U.N. war crimes tribunal for four years on charges including genocide in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.
His personal guilt or innocence now will never be established in court.
"I regret deeply what happened ... It is regrettable for all witnesses, for all survivors, for all victims that are expecting justice," Carla Del Ponte, the U.N.'s chief war crimes prosecutor, told German-language Swiss Television DRS while visiting her native Switzerland.
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said it was "unfortunate and in many aspects unsatisfactory, given the countless victims of the Balkan wars, that justice now will not be able to run its course."
"It is a pity he didn't live to the end of the trial to get the sentence he deserved," Croatian President Stipe Mesic said.
Svetozar Marovic, president of Serbia-Montenegro, said that "with his death, history will be deprived of the full truth."
Bosnia is still divided along ethnic lines a decade after the war ended. Dragan Cavic, president of the Bosnian Serb-run half of the country, said "a historic person has left the scene, a person who was disputed, criticized and praised."
Sulejman Tihic, the Bosnian Muslim member of the country's three-person presidency, said Milosevic "will be remembered as a negative historic person, the most responsible for the bloody breakup of Yugoslavia and suffering of its peoples, including the Serb people."
The tribunal said Milosevic, who had suffered from high blood pressure and heart problems, appeared to have died of natural causes. A full inquiry, including an autopsy, will be conducted.
The former leader's allies, however, accused U.N. officials of neglecting his health.
"Milosevic did not die in The Hague, he was killed in The Hague," said Ivica Dacic, a senior official in Milosevic's Socialist Party.
Milosevic recently asked the tribunal to be released temporarily to seek treatment at a Moscow heart clinic. The tribunal rejected that request, saying it feared he would not return.
In a statement, Russia's Foreign Ministry implicitly criticized Milosevic's captors, saying: "Unfortunately, despite our guarantees, the tribunal did not agree to provide Milosevic the possibility of treatment in Russia."
Russia has historic ties with largely Slavic, Orthodox Christian Serbia and sharply opposed NATO's bombing of Milosevic's Yugoslavia in 1999.
Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev told Ekho Moskvy radio that the decision not to allow Milosevic to travel to Russia was "somewhat inhuman."
Paddy Ashdown, the former top international administrator in Bosnia-Herzegovina, warned that Milosevic's passing could spark "a small period of instability."
Still, some in countries ravaged by Milosevic-fueled wars expressed satisfaction that he was gone.
"Finally, we have some reason to smile. God is fair," said Hajra Catic, who leads an association of women who lost their loved ones in the 1995 killings of 8,000 Muslims by Serb troops in the Bosnian town of Srebrenica - the worst massacre on European soil since World War II.
SOURCE 
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I hit her with the hammer on top of the head. She made a lot of noise and kept on making noise, so I hit her again.
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#151817 - 03/11/06 01:11 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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I think they speeded up his death by putting him on trial in a long-winded seemingly never-ending fashion.
And secondly by denying him medical treatment. Although sending him to Russia, a traditional Serbian ally, could pretty much have been a ticket to abscond.
There will be some pretty pissed off Serbs, and ethnic Serbs around the Balkans, and some Russians, but that's about it.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151818 - 03/11/06 01:12 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
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Slobodan was making an effective defense of Belgrade, one of Europe's oldest cities, against an Islamic horde championed by the KLA, which we have learned was rotten to its core with Jihadists and Al-Qaeda fighters.
For this reason, Slobodan was vindicated by history. Ultimately, it would have been in the best interest of the West to have sided with him, kept Belgrade European rather than Islamic, and annihilated the Jihadist-filled KLA. Instead, the West turned its weapons on its own, handed over territory to Islam, the arranged for an Adolf Eichmann showtrial for the leader who actually understood the situation.
RIP, Slobo.
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#151819 - 03/11/06 01:34 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Quote:
Slobodan was making an effective defense of Belgrade, one of Europe's oldest cities, against an Islamic horde championed by the KLA, which we have learned was rotten to its core with Jihadists and Al-Qaeda fighters.
For this reason, Slobodan was vindicated by history. Ultimately, it would have been in the best interest of the West to have sided with him, kept Belgrade European rather than Islamic, and annihilated the Jihadist-filled KLA. Instead, the West turned its weapons on its own, handed over territory to Islam, the arranged for an Adolf Eichmann showtrial for the leader who actually understood the situation.
RIP, Slobo.
So long as he was mass-murering bum-sniffers, croats, anyone who wasn't serb good right?
After Tito died he deliberately agitated for a long time for a split of Yugoslavia so he could grab land for the Serbs, who in many ways are as imperialistic as anyone.
Tens if not hundreds of thousands died, including in some of the worst massacres Europe has seen. Srebrinica for instance.
He was certainly no angel. He was one of the worst of modern times, especially in Western terms.
Justifying his life by saying "at least he killed some muslims" is doing an injustice to the tens of thousands he killed that weren't muslims, or were muslims living quiet peasant lives in the hills of Yugoslavia who didn't know how to spell Jihad, let alone serve one.
Show trial I'll agree with you on. Seeing the situation better then the west I'll agree with you. But I highly doubt controlling jihadists was too high on his list of justifications. Cleansing Kosovo for Serb glory and grabbing land was the prime reason.
PS: And as I say Serbia is traditionally aligned with the Russians anyway, so he had absolutely no interest in serving the West.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151820 - 03/11/06 01:53 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Icon
Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
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Good riddance to bad rubbish. True story, my hometown in the Midwest has always been a magnet for immigrants from the whole world over, a good thing. So this Serbian family moves in next to a relative of mine, they introduce themselves and so on. Eventually they explain that they named their son Milosh, after Milosevic. My relatives response: "Why didn't you just name him Hitler?"  Welcome to America, check your pride at the door, please. I now suspect that the "roaring in his head" that plagued Slobo up until the end was in fact Satan stoking up the furnaces in anticipation.
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#151822 - 03/11/06 03:24 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Quote:
Also: it appears that more prisoners have died in the UN's war crimes tribunal jails than have died in Guantanamo. Where's Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch? Imagine the protests if a Guantanamo prisoner conveniently died of "natural causes" before trial.
Melb_Mat-
That area of the world has been a disaster of perpetual warfare between rival ethnicities long before Slobodan came around, but he deserves condemnation for playing a role in it as do many others.
I give him credit for fighting Islamic terror before Americans realized it might affect us one day as well, and before most people knew Al-Qaeda even existed. I also wouldn't shed a tear for the "poor quiet muslims who couldn't spell Jihad", since that is the same stock which produced the 9/11 hijackers, mostly in Saudi Arabia. As I don't shed a tear for the rich plutocratic ones who produced Osama himself. I see no difference between Muslims and Muslims, but I embrace my political incorrectness.
Agreed on all the rest, and I did use the term Western pretty looseley when referring to Slobodan. He was pro-Russian beyond any doubt. However, his people were of European stock and practiced Western religion, which is the reason for my usage of Western.
Thanks for a measured and honest response.
Firstly, regarding Gitmo, and I have no doubt you have strong views, but if anyone died would anyone ever find out? There are so many problems with Gitmo it is hard to describe in words. What about the snatch and grabs happening all over the world where ppl are never heard of again? What about the summary executions of citizens of sovereign nations by predator drones. Yemen for example? What about the missing and dead in Iraq at the hands of US soldiers, contractors and US backed Iraqi forces?
So that's a bit of a red herring. You can't take the moral high ground then take the low road when it suits you. That's a general observation of recent history and all time history.
The old defence of "yeah sure, Slobbie killed 100 000 civilians, we only killed 99 000" is a bit on the nose.
So that's Gitmo vs The Hague. Who knows who is in there? Who knows is flying around Europe and other US allies like Egypt at any one time? Who'd notice? Who'd listen?
Nobody knows.
Yep, the Balkans has long been the cradle of war in Europe. Many pundits predict / predicted the Third World War to spin out of there. The fact Tito managed to keep it under control for so long was a miracle. But Slobbie as I say did his best, and succeded, in agitating nationalists to the point where he had what he wanted; an excuse to attack the Croats and the muslims.
Western I was just refering as "modern world". Russians practice Christianity, as do Serbs. But in many respects that is where the parallels end.
As for for the muslim comments, there are what, over a billion of them worldwide. I read a statistic somewhere that 2% [might have been more, I forget] of African-Americans are muslims / muslim converts. That's a big number.
Only a small number of them are blowing things up. Their US army units for instance.
So say for instance your father decides one day he wants to try Islam. He's still you father. He probably doesn't want to blow the shit out of things.
That describes a good number of muslims I think. Religion is like a snickers bar, lots of nuts in everyone.
I know you have an anti-Europe anti-muslim bent, but you do what you can. 
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151824 - 03/11/06 04:49 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
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Quote:
As for for the muslim comments, there are what, over a billion of them worldwide. I read a statistic somewhere that 2% [might have been more, I forget] of African-Americans are muslims / muslim converts. That's a big number.
Only a small number of them are blowing things up. Their US army units for instance.
The nature of the Islam practiced by American Blacks deserves a thread of its own. Even the most lunatic Mufti or Mullah in all of Arabia, North Africa, or pretty much anywhere else couldn't bring themselves to believe that Elijah Muhammed is orbiting the Earth in a spaceship (the "Mother Wheel") having conferences with Louis Farrakhan. That would be too crazy even for them, and such beliefs has no Koranic origin. To be blunt: most American Blacks who call themselves Muslim engage in little or no Islamic practices, but join because Black Muslim political leadership is the forefront of anti-White hatred in America. For them, its a Black Ku Klux Klan.
The lack of high profile Black Islamic terrorism in America probably has to do with the fact that (probably) the majority of those who convert do so while incarcerated, and the scrutiny of the criminal justice system (ie. probation/parole) keeps them from doing much of anything significant. Occasionally, we get a Hassan Akbar, John Muhammed, Lee Malvo, or Yahweh Ben Yahweh, but most are just normal apolitical criminals or militant haters of White people.
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That describes a good number of muslims I think. Religion is like a snickers bar, lots of nuts in everyone.
For sure, but the quantity of nuts between religions and the magnitude of their nuttiness varies. (That's why I'm an atheist.) Christian crazies deny evolution and dinosaur fossils, throw doll parts at girls entering family planning clinics, and about a decade ago were killing a few ob/gyns. (When was the last time that happened, anyway?)
Muslim crazies crash planes into office buildings, behead people on videotape, and other super-violent excesses. The difference being that the Islamic lunatics get lots of mainstream support from Islamic communities, even dancing in the streets when an atrocity occurs, while mainstream Christians shun their violent crazies. (No street dancing have I seen.)
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I know you have an anti-Europe anti-muslim bent, but you do what you can.
I do. Guilty on all counts.
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#151825 - 03/11/06 05:26 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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The nature of the Islam practiced by American Blacks deserves a thread of its own. Even the most lunatic Mufti or Mullah in all of Arabia, North Africa, or pretty much anywhere else couldn't bring themselves to believe that Elijah Muhammed is orbiting the Earth in a spaceship (the "Mother Wheel") having conferences with Louis Farrakhan. That would be too crazy even for them, and such beliefs has no Koranic origin. To be blunt: most American Blacks who call themselves Muslim engage in little or no Islamic practices, but join because Black Muslim political leadership is the forefront of anti-White hatred in America. For them, its a Black Ku Klux Klan.
The lack of high profile Black Islamic terrorism in America probably has to do with the fact that (probably) the majority of those who convert do so while incarcerated, and the scrutiny of the criminal justice system (ie. probation/parole) keeps them from doing much of anything significant. Occasionally, we get a Hassan Akbar, John Muhammed, Lee Malvo, or Yahweh Ben Yahweh, but most are just normal apolitical criminals or militant haters of White people.I think you are very correct in that Islam is to the west an outlet for the disenfrachised and disillusioned. White kids gone a bit mad and blacks railing against whitie. Used to be the Black Panthers I guess, but Islam is such a bogeyman that its an even more powerful statement. I think you'd be suprised at some of the sentiments expressed within these circles. We for instance have here a retarded aboriginal boxer [aborigines are taking up Islam in record numbers] who a little while after 9/11 said on national TV that America deserved it. This guy has a big mouth and is as I say a lot stupider than he thinks, but I think it was illustrative of some of the underlying currents existing in "western" muslims. There was this guy in Kuwait, who IIRC later stated that he did it because he was mad America was attacking other muslims. Asan Akbar For sure, but the quantity of nuts between religions and the magnitude of their nuttiness varies. (That's why I'm an atheist.) Christian crazies deny evolution and dinosaur fossils, throw doll parts at girls entering family planning clinics, and about a decade ago were killing a few ob/gyns. (When was the last time that happened, anyway?)
Muslim crazies crash planes into office buildings, behead people on videotape, and other super-violent excesses. The difference being that the Islamic lunatics get lots of mainstream support from Islamic communities, even dancing in the streets when an atrocity occurs, while mainstream Christians shun their violent crazies. (No street dancing have I seen.) Mmmm hmmm. I am agnostic. I think religion most of the time is the problem not the solution. Christianity is the ruling order. The United States is the ruling coloniser. The middle east is a morass of outdated and outmoded ideals, constant turmoil and generally backward practices that are holding it back. Pretty much sums up most muslim countries, I don't imply however Islam is the cause. Islamic countries once led the world technically in all sorts of areas. So for Christians and Americans smiting [insert race here] is perfectly par for the course. You wouldn't dance in the street if you bought a loaf of bread would you? For them any minor "victory" over Israel, her greatest supporter America and other sundry players is a cause for celebration. What I'm trying to say is that Christian nuts have the ascendancy. The are at the right hand of the most powerful mad [well puppet] in the world. And where that isn't true, they are just as nutty as muslims, if not more so. Have a look at places like Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria etc where Christians and Muslims live and are constantly hacking each other to bits. Just because one prays to a brown god and one to a white one. So again I think the furphy that muslims are by nature much more violent than Christians is just that, a furphy. Reverse the situation and I think you'd get much the same. Christians, Jews, Muslims, Shintos, have all been beheading each other since the dawn of time. I know you have an anti-Europe anti-muslim bent, but you do what you can.
I do. Guilty on all counts. At least you're honest! Nothing worse than someone giving you the immortal line: "I'm not a rascist, but let me tell you why Jews are all evil money grubbing midgets". Then telling you exactly why, straight-faced, they believe there is a logical basis to their statement. If you hate someone say it, don't dress is up as objective comment I say.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151826 - 03/11/06 09:32 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 932
Loc: tricking blind lesbians in a f...
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quite frankly I like the name Slobodan, it has a nice ring to it....Slobodan....see...................Slobodan
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i don't want YOU to assume i'm being uppity or disrespectful here, but even shit eaters must work within reasonable limits.
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#151828 - 03/12/06 10:12 AM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
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Quote:
Firstly, regarding Gitmo, and I have no doubt you have strong views, but if anyone died would anyone ever find out? There are so many problems with Gitmo it is hard to describe in words. What about the snatch and grabs happening all over the world where ppl are never heard of again?
Dude, seriously, quit watching the X-Files(I didn't know you guys got that down under) and all the other conspiracy shows. If someone croaks at Gitmo, people will find, interestingly the military is stickler for paperwork. As far as the snatch-n-grabs, if a cleric gets up and says "Go kill Americans" he will be picked up (usually with host government permission, but not official permission -- think "look the other way") and whisked off to some place where we can have a talk with him to find out who he told that to. And guess what, no American will care.
Quote:
What about the summary executions of citizens of sovereign nations by predator drones. Yemen for example?
As far as the assassinations are concerned, I don't get why your bent, would you rather we flatten an entire country to get one(handful of) guy(s). Your putting us in a "Damned if we do, damned if we don't" position. You get upset if we invade a country to get the terrorists and you get angry if we whack them without(or very little) civilian casualties. You need to wake up. Jihadist are not just going to wake up some morning and say " I will turn myself into the proper law enforcement officials for processing and a trial to determine my guilt/innocence". That thought process would be pure ignorance on your part.
Quote:
What about the missing and dead in Iraq at the hands of US soldiers, contractors and US backed Iraqi forces?
You need to stop believing everything the liberal news media says. They have hated Bush since day one, and they will say, or embellish, anything to get at him.
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I know you have an anti-Europe anti-muslim bent, but you do what you can.
I too am guilty of this. I think a lot of Americans are becoming guilty of this as well. We perceive Europe as soft on terrorists, and most muslims states as part of the problem, not the solution.
I didn't realize how bad the KLA was until after the NATO "intervention". The problem in that part of the world(and there are more than I will list here) is that there were no good guys. All three of the main players(Croat, Serb, Muslim) were doing horrible things. However, sometimes in life you have to pick the solution that "sucks the least" instead of the best one, because there is no "best choice". I'm starting to think James Baker was right when he said "We don't have a dog in that fight". We probably should've stayed out of that one, hindsight is 20/20.
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah
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#151829 - 03/12/06 01:22 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Dude, seriously, quit watching the X-Files(I didn't know you guys got that down under) and all the other conspiracy shows. If someone croaks at Gitmo, people will find, interestingly the military is stickler for paperwork. As far as the snatch-n-grabs, if a cleric gets up and says "Go kill Americans" he will be picked up (usually with host government permission, but not official permission -- think "look the other way") and whisked off to some place where we can have a talk with him to find out who he told that to. And guess what, no American will care.We get round the clock American TV. And if its not American its a rip-off of an American show. Its much cheaper to syndicate an American show than make one here. http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/TV/static/MelbourneNight.html?Yes the old "Everything is a conspiracy theory" defence. Well Abu Ghraib was all whispers and conspiracies until the photos came out. There are so many examples it is pointless listing them where the conspiracy theory has been shown to be true. You know what they say about an awful lot of Gitmo prisoners? Considering a lot of them are from Afghanistan? Most of them are just factional / tribal / ethnic rivals, and the Americans flying in with millions in cash for shit poor ppl was too good a chance to send your friends away for a long holiday. Isn't it funny every western government IIRC except for America's lapdog, us, have all their nationals back from Gitmo? One of ours is back, but the other one, David Hicks was held without charge for almost 4 years, and has only recently been charged. Let's not forget America loved the Taliban up until 9/11. They loved Osama too don't forget. I think it has been well documented American media, especially up until recently when speaking out meant career death, have failed to inform the populace of much of what is going on. FOX news is apparently the place most Americans get their news and information. Now if you can't see something wrong with that. I'm not saying America is dumb yada yada I'm saying its hard to see anything but reds under the bed etc when that is what you're constantly told. Rupert Murdoch has also been documented as being a great supporter of the Bush administration etc. Its all nothing new. There are many Americans who say the same sorts of things. As far as the assassinations are concerned, I don't get why your bent, would you rather we flatten an entire country to get one(handful of) guy(s). Your putting us in a "Damned if we do, damned if we don't" position. You get upset if we invade a country to get the terrorists and you get angry if we whack them without(or very little) civilian casualties. You need to wake up. Jihadist are not just going to wake up some morning and say " I will turn myself into the proper law enforcement officials for processing and a trial to determine my guilt/innocence". That thought process would be pure ignorance on your part.Dear o dear. I can clearly see there isn't going to be much hope of a logical argument with you. Which is ironic considering you are a programmer. Kill em all, let god sort em out. Yes, coz Iraq has worked out so well. And Afghanistan. And Yemen is in no way a hot bed of terrorist activity anymore. Super. More bombs, more killing, that will fix the problem. You know, if it wasn't the United States doing a lot of this stuff, it would be classified as crimes against humanity, breaches of international law etc. Which just goes to show history depends on who's side you're on. Just another general observation. You need to stop believing everything the liberal news media says. They have hated Bush since day one, and they will say, or embellish, anything to get at him.I avoid believing most things that are reported in the media. Ppl lie, they have agendas. I like to think I base my opinions and conclusions on logic and overwhelming evidence. I don't frequent conspiracy sites etc. If you are a Bush supporter, again its going to be hard to have a logical discussion with you. I know this will elicit all sorts of "Well if you don't like us fuck off" responses, but the US in international relations is at an all time low. Thanks to Bush. And there are many documented instances of speeches etc that Bush and his administration have made that show an imperialistic outview. I do think the tide in America is thankfully finally turning against Bush and friends and ppl are starting to wake up. I too am guilty of this. I think a lot of Americans are becoming guilty of this as well. We perceive Europe as soft on terrorists, and most muslims states as part of the problem, not the solution.
I didn't realize how bad the KLA was until after the NATO "intervention". The problem in that part of the world(and there are more than I will list here) is that there were no good guys. All three of the main players(Croat, Serb, Muslim) were doing horrible things. However, sometimes in life you have to pick the solution that "sucks the least" instead of the best one, because there is no "best choice". I'm starting to think James Baker was right when he said "We don't have a dog in that fight". We probably should've stayed out of that one, hindsight is 20/20.Again, thanks for being honest. Well Spain and England might disagree with you vis-a-vis terrorism and Europe. I think there is also the problem that Europe is a lot closer to the middle east so has many more muslim immigrants. So its not so quite cut and dried when a million, two million of your population are recent immigrants from hardline islamic states. As for Islamic states, I've maintained all along that until America put bases in Saudi Arabia, then forgot to take them out, the most holy of holy Islamic lands, Mecca and Medina, islamic terrorists didn't have all that much interest in smiting America. In fact they worked with them against the Russians in Chechnya and Afghanistan. Apart from the usual "Evil backer of evil Israel". I've heard arguments against the Saudi Arabia theory, but all the time lines seem to fit. Having a culture you find to be decadent and unholy occupying your most sacred lands would tick you off a bit. And as America encircles the middle east, and starts sticking its head into other muslim trouble spots like Indonesia, The Phillipines, The Sudan etc, it must feel rather like being surrounded on all sides. And you know what they say about cornered rats. As for the KLA, as I say, all depends on who's side you're on how history sees you. Now many Americans hate muslims in general, they are now bogeymen. At the time they were freedom fighters, heros for their ppl against the evil Serbs. I think on balance Slobbie and the Serbs started the war in the Balkans. The Croats pretty much just wanted to be left alone. The muslims, being the weakest of the 3, pretty much just wanted to be left alone too. But the Serbs wanted to grab land and cleanse Kosovo of what they saw as the sub-human presence of the muslims. A lot of the atrocities were tit-for-tat. But I think the Serbs had most of the killings. I think of all the US interventions to date, that was probably the most necassary and correct. I think America at the moment is a bit like a blinded wounded animal. Very angry, very sore, and lashing out violently and blindly with anger, not considered logic. On here and other places that seems to be a common theme. "Everyone hates us, so fuck em, let's go blow someone up before they do it to us, muslims, Europeans, the UN, it was them, so let's go grease some towel-heads". I also think many in America share my views, but up until recently many were too scared to speak out. Look at what happened to say The Dixie Chicks and others. Today for instance on Meet The Press with Tim Russet [another US program!] there were two guys, an ex-army general and a US middle-east correspondant plugging a book that pans America's actions in Iraq. Imagine doing that 12-18 months ago. They would have been lynched. Man, when I said the Iraq war was going to be a huge huge mistake and the US was gunna get stung, there were ppl pretty much telling me they were gunna kill me from the US. Anyone in America who questioned it was in deep deep do-do. It does, as I say, seem the tide has well and truly turned on the Bush administration, and events like Katrina and other fuck-ups such as the US economy are accelerating the process. And don't get all angry and say "Well fuck you, you're not American, what would you know" etc. As I say, I know my views are shared by many Americans, so its not being anti-American. Also the fact we are bombarded by Americana means many kids know more about America than their own country. Have a look at out national music chart: http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1S50Plenty of white ghetto pimps and hood-rat sistas running around here. Australia is after all referred often here as the 51st state. Apart from maybe Canada, who we are in turn probably more like than America, we are more like America than any other country I can think of. Getting dragged into pointless wars then getting shit all over as thanks is a bit of a sore point.  Sorry for the length of my reply.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151830 - 03/12/06 03:32 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
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Yes the old "Everything is a conspiracy theory" defence. Well Abu Ghraib was all whispers and conspiracies until the photos came out. There are so many examples it is pointless listing them where the conspiracy theory has been shown to be true.
One or two bad apples don't ruin the whole bunch. The U.S. Military has its fair share of shit heads. If it were Gov't policy to torture/abuse people, somebody/somewhere would have been smart enough to not take pictures.
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Most of them are just factional / tribal / ethnic rivals, and the Americans flying in with millions in cash for shit poor ppl was too good a chance to send your friends away for a long holiday.
You don't know that. Before you come back with "You don't know it either" line. Keep in mind that terrorists sometimes don't tell the truth. And by "sometimes" I mean never.
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Let's not forget America loved the Taliban up until 9/11. They loved Osama too don't forget.
No we didn't love the talibannies. If we loved Osama then why did we try to kill him with cruise missiles?
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FOX news is apparently the place most Americans get their news and information. Now if you can't see something wrong with that.
Enough with the Fox news is the republicans etc. etc. etc. Just because you give the Right-wingers a chance to speak in addition to the Left-wingers doesn't mean your a Bush lover. I've seen many of the pundits hammer the Bush Administration pretty hard. In fact they do it much better than most because they stick to facts and logic(something your entire post is devoid of).
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Dear o dear. I can clearly see there isn't going to be much hope of a logical argument with you. Which is ironic considering you are a programmer.
Kill em all, let god sort em out.
You failed to address the point I brought up completely. My point was how do you get terrorists off the street. And don't give the U.N. line, they don't call it the Useless Nations for nothing. If you think the terrorist are going to stop what they are doing because some cop says "Stop in the name of the law" you are more delusional than you may realize.
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Yes, coz Iraq has worked out so well. And Afghanistan. And Yemen is in no way a hot bed of terrorist activity anymore.
Your right about Iraq and the problems there, keep in mind no battleplan survives first engagement with the enemy. Have mistakes been made? Sure, point to a war where one wasn't. Afghanistan isn't that bad, a few problems along the Paki border. Believe or not Iraq isn't that bad either(yet), just a lot of negative news reporting. Save it, I know there is both good and bad happening there, my point is your not getting the full picture.
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You know, if it wasn't the United States doing a lot of this stuff, it would be classified as crimes against humanity, breaches of international law etc.
Such as? Most international law doesn't cover terrorist or is vague at best.
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I know this will elicit all sorts of "Well if you don't like us fuck off" responses, but the US in international relations is at an all time low.
Ok.... Well if you don't like us fuck off 
We could care less how well we're liked. A lot of people(in other countries) say the Americans don't understand the world or international relations. To a degree they're right, but that critism cuts both ways, people from other countries don't understand America, and what we value and what we don't value. A lot of the worlds problems fall to our doorstep not because we want them, but where else are they going to go? U.N., Europe? [insert: smiley laughing hystaricly]
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Well Spain and England might disagree with you vis-a-vis terrorism and Europe. I think there is also the problem that Europe is a lot closer to the middle east so has many more muslim immigrants.
I don't know if England is considered a part of Europe or not. They seem kind of on the fence with that one. They're european when it benefits them. Spain threw in the towel on the GWOT after their attacks. Says alot about them when the French held on longer in WW2
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As for Islamic states, I've maintained all along that until America put bases in Saudi Arabia, then forgot to take them out, the most holy of holy Islamic lands, Mecca and Medina, islamic terrorists didn't have all that much interest in smiting America.
What does having military bases in S.A. have anything do with their hatred towards us? We have military base in Italy(->Rome, head of the Christian church) and yet Christians aren't going Jihadist on us. The fact is Islam fighting a civil war(well sort of) and we got dragged into it(as in Not By Choice). They wanted to kill us long before that.
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In fact they worked with them against the Russians in Chechnya and Afghanistan.
We didn't. We divided them up, S.A. took all the religous fanatics and we took the Afghans, that was the deal. None of the Afghans would take Americans(who were suppling weapons) near Bin Laden.
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I've heard arguments against the Saudi Arabia theory, but all the time lines seem to fit. Having a culture you find to be decadent and unholy occupying your most sacred lands would tick you off a bit.
They hated us long before that, it just gave them a reason. And since we left, they shouldn't mad at us anymore right? Them finding us "unholy" says a lot about their tolerance.
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I think on balance Slobbie and the Serbs started the war in the Balkans. The Croats pretty much just wanted to be left alone. The muslims, being the weakest of the 3, pretty much just wanted to be left alone too.
But the Serbs wanted to grab land and cleanse Kosovo of what they saw as the sub-human presence of the muslims.
A lot of the atrocities were tit-for-tat. But I think the Serbs had most of the killings.
I agree with what you said.
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I think of all the US interventions to date, that was probably the most necassary and correct.
But you lost it there. I don't know if you should use the word "most".
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I think America at the moment is a bit like a blinded wounded animal. Very angry, very sore, and lashing out violently and blindly with anger, not considered logic.
Nope, just determined to see this through.
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On here and other places that seems to be a common theme. "Everyone hates us, so fuck em, let's go blow someone up before they do it to us, muslims, Europeans, the UN, it was them, so let's go grease some towel-heads".
Most places that hate us are the radical left places like Europe/U.N., they don't like the fact we elected a right-winger for president, so their bent. They take their anger to such an extreme that they ignore the terrorist threat, because they don't like Bush's political "orientation" 
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Today for instance on Meet The Press with Tim Russet [another US program!] there were two guys, an ex-army general and a US middle-east correspondant plugging a book that pans America's actions in Iraq.
Imagine doing that 12-18 months ago. They would have been lynched.
Just people trying to take advantage of the situation to get a few $$$$. A bunch of books came out saying Bill Clinton screwed up by not getting serious with Bin Laden earlier, it was some guy trying to cash in, nothing more, nothing less.
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It does, as I say, seem the tide has well and truly turned on the Bush administration, and events like Katrina and other fuck-ups such as the US economy are accelerating the process.
A lot of has to do with the news media and the Bush's PR policy. The news media hammers the Bush Administration and he doesn't get out there to defend himself or his policies. One of my main gripes with G.Dub is his inability to communicate his thoughts/vision. When he does it, he does it well, but not often enough. Katrina was a fuck up top to bottom. Federal, State, and Local people all share blame for that one. In America there are different rules(you probably know that) that came into play during the crisis that further fouled things up. The U.S. economy is actually improving drastically. Not sure where you going with that one.
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Have a look at out national music chart:
http://www.ariacharts.com.au/pages/charts_display.asp?chart=1S50
Plenty of white ghetto pimps and hood-rat sistas running around here.
I'll give you that one. Our bad.
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Australia is after all referred often here as the 51st state. Apart from maybe Canada, who we are in turn probably more like than America, we are more like America than any other country I can think of.
We actually consider you guys one of our closest allies in the world. Britain, and Japan are the other two. Hopefully no one in my country will forget that. Its too bad you guys are so far away, move your rock closer to us Canada is trying to be different from us for no other reason other than to be different.
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Getting dragged into pointless wars then getting shit all over as thanks is a bit of a sore point.
Hopefully the war will work out and its not pointless. Democracy is the best weapon(from a stregic stand point) that we have against terrorists. I hope you guys aren't getting shit all over, you guys got hit in Bali(well it wasn't in Australia, but alot of the people were aussies).
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Sorry for the length of my reply.
Don't worry about it, its Sunday, its raining, and I'm bored
P.S. I threw in the towel on spell checking this thing about half way through.
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah
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#151831 - 03/12/06 04:47 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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One or two bad apples don't ruin the whole bunch. The U.S. Military has its fair share of shit heads. If it were Gov't policy to torture/abuse people, somebody/somewhere would have been smart enough to not take pictures. If you believe that you would believe anything. Ask Karpinski. Ask that guy who names escapes me, Japanese origin I think it is. If you believe torture is not a routinely used technique by the US military and its agents you are living in la-la land. There is so much evidence. I mean for fucks sakes, Rummy and friends came out with a document on acceptable uses of torture. Seeing as how we're talking porn a lot of the stuff in the published document would get banned in porn. Let's not forget the military especially in the states is recruited from the lower classes. No disrespect, but true. The red neck reservists from Virginia were just the tip of the iceberg. You don't know that. Before you come back with "You don't know it either" line. Keep in mind that terrorists sometimes don't tell the truth. And by "sometimes" I mean never.There's been lots of media, doco crews from respected and generally unbiased media outlets that have shown as best they can it to be true. Speaking of Afghanistan, there was also a lot of evidence for a US sponsored massacre [with US troops supervising] of Afghani paramilitary troops putting "taliban" into big trucks, and those that didn't suffocate were shot. It was reported at around 3 000. Don't forget the taliban was like national service. Serve of we kill your family. No we didn't love the talibannies. If we loved Osama then why did we try to kill him with cruise missiles?No disrespect, but here is where your knowledge shows itself to be somewhat flawed. The US sponsored Osama and the mujahadeen in Afghanistan directly with money and arms against the Russians. There is some evidence they supported Chechen seperatists [muslims] against Russia in Chechnya too. You'll notice the US has gone very quiet on brow-beating the Russians over the genocide happening in Chechnya since 9/11. Osama and various other US backed muslims were only targetted after 9/11. There was a big story about Cheney inviting the taliban leadership over for a Texas BBQ to discuss oil pipelines through Afghanistan, a long held goal of many nations, just before 9/11. So while they were raping and killing their own citizens fine, but all of a sudden they are "terrorists" because they are muslim and live in a country where Osama had set up base. Again, history can be cruel. One minute America's best friend, the next minute wholesale slaughter of anyone even remotely related to the taliban, even if it was as I say the quasi Afghani national service. Enough with the Fox news is the republicans etc. etc. etc. Just because you give the Right-wingers a chance to speak in addition to the Left-wingers doesn't mean your a Bush lover. I've seen many of the pundits hammer the Bush Administration pretty hard. In fact they do it much better than most because they stick to facts and logic(something your entire post is devoid of).You've just shown yourself in the last bit to know nothing of the history behind all this. So everything you say is pretty much coming from a stance of emotion and hatred. Have you watched FOX news? How the hell is that anything but comedy? What was the classicly quoted segment? Kerrie skies like a Frenchman? Its not even propoganda. Its so over the top its hard to believe its not some joke no one appears to be getting. Facts and logic? O my god! Facts and logic are the last place you're coming from. You failed to address the point I brought up completely. My point was how do you get terrorists off the street. And don't give the U.N. line, they don't call it the Useless Nations for nothing. If you think the terrorist are going to stop what they are doing because some cop says "Stop in the name of the law" you are more delusional than you may realize.What terrorists? Where? Terrorism is a bit of a big bad bogeyman. Bush has used it, Blair has used it, Howard has used it all shamelessly for political purposes. Bad news comes out. Hey, terrorist alert! Run for your lives. And I know this is going to sound dumb, and you're going to call me a leftie fag communist under the bed pillow biter whatever, but have you ever thought maybe just maybe if you're going to colonise the world ppl might get a touch upset? I don't see the US dropping too many troops into northern Ireland to fight those terrorist bombing bastards, those micks, the IRA [that's an ironic joke BTW before the "O yeah, I'm Irish alright" brigade start up]. I mean Willie D, is not my lover, he's just the girl, who says I am the one, sorry, it always reminds me of that song, has Michael Collins and "IRA Commander" as an avatar. Clinton was doing fundraisers for Sinn Fein and the IRA, both know terrorists groups responsible for hundreds of deaths. So terrorist or freedom fighter is just dependant on whose side you're on. Or what about ETA in the Basque region of Spain? Where's the outrage there? Your right about Iraq and the problems there, keep in mind no battleplan survives first engagement with the enemy. Have mistakes been made? Sure, point to a war where one wasn't. Afghanistan isn't that bad, a few problems along the Paki border. Believe or not Iraq isn't that bad either(yet), just a lot of negative news reporting. Save it, I know there is both good and bad happening there, my point is your not getting the full picture.The battleplan wasn't so much the problem. It was a stroll against conventional Iraqii forces. The complete lack of understanding of anything to do with Iraq, the middle east, islam, strands of islam etc was the problem. And as for Afghanistan, its generally unwise to leave Kabul, the only safe part of the country. So that's a great success. More troops killed there everyday. Iraq is bad. Its going to get worse. Anyone who believes anything different and believes the coalition is doing anything but trying to get out as fast as possible is again oblivious to the facts. Such as? Most international law doesn't cover terrorist or is vague at best. Illegal invasion. Torture. Breach of Geneva convention. Illegal covert incursions into sovereign territory. Illegal deaths in custody. Bombing civilians. There's more. Its hardly something to put on your resume. Ok.... Well if you don't like us fuck off
We could care less how well we're liked. A lot of people(in other countries) say the Americans don't understand the world or international relations. To a degree they're right, but that critism cuts both ways, people from other countries don't understand America, and what we value and what we don't value. A lot of the worlds problems fall to our doorstep not because we want them, but where else are they going to go? U.N., Europe? [insert: smiley laughing hystaricly]Yes you could. Many Americans and foreigners living there say America just wants to be liked, and can't understand why they are hated. No one likes being hated. Its nice to be liked. And the classical defence mechanism is "If you don't like me, I'll hate you twice as much [unless secretly you do like me? No?] Well fuck off then." I think as I say most other countries are so bombarded by America its hard not to know what she is all about. Americans I have mostly found don't understand the rest of the world. They are the big banana, so there isn't an apparent need to understand. And that sort of arrogance about Europe and the UN seals the deal for a lot of ppl. America is going to need friends soon. And she seems more intent on losing them. China, India and Russia are real threats to American ascendancy, and if you're going to piss off all your allies, then its going to be more difficult. I don't know if England is considered a part of Europe or not. They seem kind of on the fence with that one. They're european when it benefits them. Spain threw in the towel on the GWOT after their attacks. Says alot about them when the French held on longer in WW2Yeah, the English have never really fit in with Europe. They have a different mentality and ethos I think, being of English extraction I find the mainlanders have a strangeness about them. I don't know if Spain threw in the towel. And Spain didn't surrender in WW2, they were a neutral country, like Switzerland. So again, it appears to me you've shown ignorance of the facts. What does having military bases in S.A. have anything do with their hatred towards us? We have military base in Italy(->Rome, head of the Christian church) and yet Christians aren't going Jihadist on us. The fact is Islam fighting a civil war(well sort of) and we got dragged into it(as in Not By Choice). They wanted to kill us long before that.Again, no offence, but you've shown a complete lack of understanding. Most of America's culture is totally abhorent to muslims. Italians only resent America, they don't hate her. Italy and America are relatively alike. America and the middle east are worlds apart. America and most of Islam is worlds apart. Mecca and Medina, cities in SA if you don't know, are two of the holiest places in Islam. And for percieved infidel crusaders like America to sully them is a huge insult to Islam. Also, I'll bring up the old chestnut. Kuwait and the middle east having oil had nothing to do with America intervening. I mean there's at lest 10 countries in Africa at the moment that are butchering themselves in civil wars, where's the outrage? The international attention? The American intervention? I agree with what you said.Thanks. You should make it a habit.  But you lost it there. I don't know if you should use the word "most".Well what then is wrong with that statement? Its probably had the best outcome to date. Nope, just determined to see this through.That's propoganda? See what through? On the current course of action you're creating more "terrorists" than killing them. You can't kill every muslim. Most places that hate us are the radical left places like Europe/U.N., they don't like the fact we elected a right-winger for president, so their bent. They take their anger to such an extreme that they ignore the terrorist threat, because they don't like Bush's political "orientation"Radical leftist? There are right wing governments in Europe. If anything the American misadventures have driven Europe to the left. Ignore the threat? Bullshit. Bush is dangerous. Well, I should say the ppl behind Bush are dangerous. You know Daddy Bush kept all of the crazies away from the gun cabinet? And what does Junior Bush do? Give them the keys. Rummy, Wolfie, Chenney etc. All war war war and conquest. Just people trying to take advantage of the situation to get a few $$$$. A bunch of books came out saying Bill Clinton screwed up by not getting serious with Bin Laden earlier, it was some guy trying to cash in, nothing more, nothing less.You could be right. Doesn't change the fact the political climate in the US has changed markedly. A lot of has to do with the news media and the Bush's PR policy. The news media hammers the Bush Administration and he doesn't get out there to defend himself or his policies. One of my main gripes with G.Dub is his inability to communicate his thoughts/vision. When he does it, he does it well, but not often enough. Katrina was a fuck up top to bottom. Federal, State, and Local people all share blame for that one. In America there are different rules(you probably know that) that came into play during the crisis that further fouled things up. The U.S. economy is actually improving drastically. Not sure where you going with that one.I'm no expert on the US economy. But most of what I've come across has pointed to it being in poor shape. And the drain of Iraq at what, is it up to a trillion yet, just for Iraq, is certainly not going to help. I think you overestimate Bush. He is a frontman, a salesman. Anytime he's ever been asked any sort of probing question about policy that is not scripted he is at a loss. Bush would be OK as a friend, but as the most powerful man in the world he is definately not OK. As for FEMA etc, Bush stacked it with cronies, which is where a lot of the problems started. IIRC he also ripped an awful lot of money out of it. He also totally mishandled the entire saga. I find it hard to believe you would disagree with that. See, if Bush was just some schlub, ppl would have eaten him by now. But Americans have this thing with the president being God-like, and that IMHO taints their collective bullshit radar. Doesn't matter if hes a complete arseclown, unleast until he gets out of office hes on an untouchable pedestool. I'll give you that one. Our bad. I hate urban. And I hate wiggas. Funny how afro-americans are so downtrodden yada yada, yet lead American culture in so many respects. We actually consider you guys one of our closest allies in the world. Britain, and Japan are the other two. Hopefully no one in my country will forget that. Its too bad you guys are so far away, move your rock closer to us Canada is trying to be different from us for no other reason other than to be different.That's a nice sentiment. But I think you might be in the minority. I've read many op-eds and vox pops etc where we're seen as quaint at best, useless at worst. But generally at best totally minor. Which is fair enough. We're 20 million, and in lots of respects hardly world leaders. Its a inferiority / superiority complex. Australia and America are alike, but at the same time very different. If you came here you would see it immediately. We got screwed on the FTA with the US. That despite going all the way in Iraq, Afhganistan, and for that matter being the only country in the world to go to war with the US every single time. Its taken over a year to get a new US ambassador [Tom Scheiffer was the last one, this one is another friend of Bush's]. Hopefully the war will work out and its not pointless. Democracy is the best weapon(from a stregic stand point) that we have against terrorists. I hope you guys aren't getting shit all over, you guys got hit in Bali(well it wasn't in Australia, but alot of the people were aussies).Jesus! Bush PR manual 101! Dude, if you believe "democracy", especially American style is going to gel in these countries you are dreaming. Especially when its "democracy, but only if our guys get in". Plenty of scuttlebutt about vote-rigging in various elections. And when Fatah loses and Hamas gets in the Palestine, democratically, o no, we can't have that. The point is, all this democracy bullshit is just that, bullshit. America has been coup-agitating, vote-rigging, revolution-supporting all over the world for decades. As hard as it is to face up to it, and as much as its going to be labelled as cutting and running and all those other bullshit terms, terrorism is only going to increase with the current course of action. America can't rule every country. So, get out of SA. Get out of the middle east. Lean on Israel for an amicable settlement with the Palestinians. Stop poking the islamic bear, especially Iran, Syria etc. Get over the dependance on oil. Islamic countries for the most part don't want America. If they want America, let them come. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You can blow it to bits from an F-16, but then you don't have a horse, and the owner is rather ticked off. Unless America is just going to come out and say "We're colonising, and if we take some hits so be it", then there is going to be much more trouble to come. Don't worry about it, its Sunday, its raining, and I'm bored
P.S. I threw in the towel on spell checking this thing about half way through.Its Monday morning here. And its raining and about 23 celcius. It was 36 celcius yesterday. Don't worry about spell checking. I think from what you've said, if that is middle America, there is still a long way to go. And a lot of hard lessons to learn. Iraq will not end well and is only strenghthening and emboldening Iran. Afghanistan is going to continue to be safe only in Kabul and many more ppl will get killed. There will be more and more terrorists while America continues this aggressive stance. Until Bush is out and a somewhat more reticent administration is put in, I think America is only going to have more and more problems. And that is bad for everybody.
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Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151832 - 03/12/06 07:32 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
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First off, these posts are WWWWAAAAAYYYY too long WE BOTH need to shorten up a bit... Quote:
If you believe that you would believe anything. Ask Karpinski. Ask that guy who names escapes me, Japanese origin I think it is.
If you believe torture is not a routinely used technique by the US military and its agents you are living in la-la land. There is so much evidence.
I mean for fucks sakes, Rummy and friends came out with a document on acceptable uses of torture. Seeing as how we're talking porn a lot of the stuff in the published document would get banned in porn.
Let's not forget the military especially in the states is recruited from the lower classes. No disrespect, but true. The red neck reservists from Virginia were just the tip of the iceberg.
College kids getting initated into fraternities go through worse than that. Your just one of those pussy-pillow-biting liberals who gets bent when we don't take shit from someone.
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There's been lots of media, doco crews from respected and generally unbiased media outlets that have shown as best they can it to be true.
"Can" be true is different than well documented "It Is" true. Please don't use the BBC as one of those sources, they lead the pack on anti-americanism.
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The US sponsored Osama and the mujahadeen in Afghanistan directly with money and arms against the Russians. There is some evidence they supported Chechen seperatists [muslims] against Russia in Chechnya too. You'll notice the US has gone very quiet on brow-beating the Russians over the genocide happening in Chechnya since 9/11.
Osama and various other US backed muslims were only targetted after 9/11.
There was a big story about Cheney inviting the taliban leadership over for a Texas BBQ to discuss oil pipelines through Afghanistan, a long held goal of many nations, just before 9/11.
Dude, whatever you don't use Micheal Moore as a reference, his "documentry" got punched full of holes.
The reason Fox news sounds different is because they do their own research/reporting instead of falling in step with the other left wing wacko new organizations that have become self appointed to create policy.
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What terrorists? Where?
Don't know if you guys caught this on the news down under, but a while back a few people got together and crashed some planes into our buildings, killed a bunch of people. Those terrorsts.
If the IRA/ETA decide to crash planes into our building we will ruin their shit just the same.
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Iraq is bad. Its going to get worse.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't hear the fat lady singing. I will admit things are not going well. You ever hear of a battle called "Guadalcana"? It started off badly too.
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Illegal invasion.
Not illegal
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Torture.
Again. A few isolated cases. If you keep telling yourself the U.S. military is out to get, you may actually start to believe that. You probably already do.
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Breach of Geneva convention.
Terrorists are not covered under the geneva conventions. When I was in the Navy, I carried an ID that stated specifically I was covered under the Geneva Conventions(Aussie Military does to). Quick question for ya? Why are you quick to critisize the U.S. so much for alleged torture. Why don't you critisize Al Queda for it? I haven't seen any U.S. Mil people jumping around with glee after sawing off someones head.
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Bombing civilians.
I like how you equate our bombing of civilians with terrorists bombing of civilians. U.S. Mil does everything to avoid collateral damage, terrorists do everything they can to increase it. Feel free to mix in some perspective.
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And that sort of arrogance about Europe and the UN seals the deal for a lot of ppl.
Thats comedy right there. Lets list off some of the Euro/UN successes shall we? Balkins, for years we told the Euros it was their problem and they should deal with it. The Euros bickered amongst themselves until B.Clinton said make it happen. Rwanda? Wow!! The way the UN stood up to the challenge and let their own troops get massacred, to say nothing about what happened to the rest of the country. Big success there UN!! When it comes down to it nothing happens in this world until America says make it happen. And then everyone bitches that it took America to make it happen.
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China, India and Russia are real threats to American ascendancy
Not really theats, china and india particurly will begin to have strong economies, in fact they are already growing quickly. Both value trade with the U.S. to start to much of a pissing contest.
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I don't know if Spain threw in the towel. And Spain didn't surrender in WW2, they were a neutral country, like Switzerland. So again, it appears to me you've shown ignorance of the facts.
I wasn't saying Spain surrendered in WW2. I was comparing how long it took them to surrender in the GWOT versus the time it took the French to surrender in WW2. Yes spain surrendered in GWOT.
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Mecca and Medina, cities in SA if you don't know, are two of the holiest places in Islam. And for percieved infidel crusaders like America to sully them is a huge insult to Islam.
I was aware of the significance of the two places. If Islam views our culture as bad and are deeply offended by being on SA territory(at the Govt of SA request) then they have deep flaws in their culture not ours. If you invite someone into your home, would you not welcome them? BTW we weren't at M/M sites specifically. The bases were pretty far from them(as I understand) it wasn't like we were standing in their shadows.
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I'll bring up the old chestnut. Kuwait and the middle east having oil had nothing to do with America intervening.
Oil has everything to do with it(or at least a major part of it). Your job depends on my country getting oil. The U.S. economy drives the global economy(at least into the foreseeable future).
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I mean there's at lest 10 countries in Africa at the moment that are butchering themselves in civil wars, where's the outrage? The international attention? The American intervention?
Can you please get your positions straight? First you say that the UN/Europe can handle these problems. Then why don't they? Then you get off a blast about the war in Iraq is an "Illegal invasion". Now you want us to go and whack an African nation? Which is it? Is America is the leader? Or not? America should intervine? Or not? Now you're the one reacting emotionally.
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Well what then is wrong with that statement? Its probably had the best outcome to date.
The only thing wrong was your use of the word "most", I agreed it was worth it to put a stop to the killing. We just removed the last of our troops about a year ago. Granted they were not having as difficult time as they would in Iraq, but they were only supposed to stay a year. That goes to show sometimes these things take longer than an hour minus comercial breaks.
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You can't kill every muslim.
We can get the ones that want to kill us. I'd rather fight them in Iraq than in the streets of New York/Los Angeles. If you have to fight them in the streets of Sydney you have already lost, your just trying to contain the damage. The GWOT must be offensive in nature.
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Radical leftist? There are right wing governments in Europe.
If that is your definition of right then..... Wow... I mean Wow....
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Doesn't change the fact the political climate in the US has changed markedly.
You're quite right. It has become more vicious since the Democrats(thats the left wing) in America were thrown from power.
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I'm no expert on the US economy. But most of what I've come across has pointed to it being in poor shape.
Its actually doing ok. Everybody compares it to the late '90s when everybody became rich during the internet boom. The '90s were an abnormal time, everybody got rich, it was free money. We paid for afterward, but we picked up the pieces and rebuilt it smarter. However, there are no instant millionares anymore.
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As for FEMA etc, Bush stacked it with cronies, which is where a lot of the problems started.
The probs with Katrina were not limited to FEMA. This is how I can tell you adhere to the lefty lib newsites. None of lefty news sites critisized the state govenor/city mayor even though they had specific duties/responsibilities as well. And they dropped the ball as badly as FEMA. Understand I am NOT excuseing FEMA/Bush on this one, I am just saying there is more blame to go around.
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And I hate wiggas. Funny how afro-americans are so downtrodden yada yada, yet lead American culture in so many respects.
Tru Dat, werd up dawg. Phat mad props to your homies!
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If you came here you would see it immediately.
I would love to. Seriously. I wanted to go when I was in the Navy, but our ship never made it down there. It takes two extra weeks to get there, plus a few days in port, and another two additional weeks to get to the gulf(thats on top of how long it takes us normally). Theres an Aussie girl you could introduce me to.
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We got screwed on the FTA with the US. That despite going all the way in Iraq, Afhganistan, and for that matter being the only country in the world to go to war with the US every single time.
What is FTA? Is that a free trade agreement? This is actually one of the areas I critisize Bush on. He screwed Poland as well(forgot what they were asking for). People who go with us(and yes the Aussies went with us everywhere, even Vietnam) should get special status.
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And when Fatah loses and Hamas gets in the Palestine, democratically, o no, we can't have that.
Not sure why your bringing this up(it may have something to do with the fact I'm handing you your ass). Everybody is pretty much over the fact that Hamas won(I don't understand why everybody was shocked, I saw it coming a mile off. Just wasn't sure if they could take a majority or not). Most will/should recognoze Hamas as the legit gov't of the Palestians. However, they shouldn't deal with them, because there is that little thing we call "Genocide". That when you swear to wipe out an entire culture of people(in this case jews).
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The point is, all this democracy bullshit is just that, bullshit. America has been coup-agitating, vote-rigging, revolution-supporting all over the world for decades.
Yes!! The man is out there keeping the brotha down!
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As hard as it is to face up to it, and as much as its going to be labelled as cutting and running and all those other bullshit terms, terrorism is only going to increase with the current course of action.
Actually bailing out now would make things worse. The last you or I want is the terrorists to think they have a chance of winnning, that more than anything will drive up their recruiting.
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So, get out of SA.
We've been out for quite a while. Prior to Iraq War v2.0
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Lean on Israel for an amicable settlement with the Palestinians.
Reward terrorism, didn't see that one coming from you. Whats next, give medals to mass murderers.
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Stop poking the islamic bear, especially Iran, Syria etc.
They will most likely get bombed, not invaded in the near future.
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Get over the dependance on oil.
Thats true, I'll give you that one.
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Islamic countries for the most part don't want America. If they want America, let them come.
Thats a huge part of the problem right there. There is no single voice coming from with Iraq saying "Come" or "Don't Come". The Shiites/Kurds wanted us to come, whereas the Sunnis want us to leave.
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about 23 celcius. It was 36 celcius yesterday
Since we're colonizing the world, you'll need to post that in Farenheit.
[Rant]
Everybody told us we'd lose WW2, we'd lose the Cold War against the Soviet Union. Now everybody is telling us we're going to lose this one. Not buying it. It will take a long time.
[/Rant]
Shit, after reading this I definately didn't shorten mine up. 
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah
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#151833 - 03/13/06 09:14 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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College kids getting initated into fraternities go through worse than that. Your just one of those pussy-pillow-biting liberals who gets bent when we don't take shit from someone.
Yeah I hear there's college kids all over the country getting beaten to death and subjected to months of torture and summary executions. No wonder they don't have a frat system here.
I'm one of those ppl who aren't America who get a bit annoyed with yee-hah elements of America who are directly helping send America down the tubes.
"Can" be true is different than well documented "It Is" true. Please don't use the BBC as one of those sources, they lead the pack on anti-americanism.
"True" is a subjective term. Like ppl who til this day still swear Saddam was flying one of the 9/11 planes etc times infinity.
And the BBC is one of the world leaders in objective reporting.
I think its more a case of you looking for American haters through being overly defensive. You hate Europe, you hate arabs, muslims.
Having family in Britain and Australia being linked with Britain extensively I can tell you Britain isn't exactly all that enamoured with America. Another friend you're trying very hard to lose.
Dude, whatever you don't use Micheal Moore as a reference, his "documentry" got punched full of holes.
The reason Fox news sounds different is because they do their own research/reporting instead of falling in step with the other left wing wacko new organizations that have become self appointed to create policy.
Michael Moore is self-serving. I never mentioned him. The CIA themselves have documentary evidence of their dealings with the mujahadeen and Osama. Its no secret. But to you apparently it is. I thought it was pretty commonly accepted fact.
The Cheney story was run as fact by more respectable sources then Moore.
And I say again, anyone who believes anything on FOX is mentally defective. The fact you go so far as to vigoursly defend it explains a lot of why you disagree with me. Its called brain washing. I read left and right wing stuff. But FOX isn't news, its trash TV for the stupid.
Don't know if you guys caught this on the news down under, but a while back a few people got together and crashed some planes into our buildings, killed a bunch of people. Those terrorsts.
If the IRA/ETA decide to crash planes into our building we will ruin their shit just the same.
No, I missed that. Tell me what happened? My point is the terrorist threat is a global industry, and an economy run on the military simply cannot afford to have a constant threat to prop it up.
I say the threat is greatly exaggerated.
Iraq was pretty much a no-go zone for Osama and friends. In fact they hated each other. You would have been better off invading Saudi Arabia.
Maybe, maybe not. I don't hear the fat lady singing. I will admit things are not going well. You ever hear of a battle called "Guadalcana"? It started off badly too.
Have you been watching John Wayne films again?
Its going to get worse and worse. Mark my words. Britain is well and truly getting the shits about Iraq. I saw a report just yesterday that an 8 year SAS (real special forces) veteran of multiple campaigns left the army because he refused to fight with US soldiers who he accused of dozens of illegal acts and seeing and treating Iraiis as untermenshen as well as a doctor who refused to go on his 3rd tour of Iraq for the same reasons. Now if your allies are starting to treat you like that, what does it say for the future in Iraq?
Bad bad bad bad. British soldiers have for a very long time been seen as some of the most professional and disciplined in the world, so for open revolt to be happening that is a barometer of they way things are going downhill.
Not illegal
Many international law experts would disagree.
Again. A few isolated cases. If you keep telling yourself the U.S. military is out to get, you may actually start to believe that. You probably already do.
You obviously do watch FOX. Its all over the international media. As I say even the FBI, Americans, are whinging about torture. Soldiers serving as part of the coalition are saying the same. Dozens of Iraqiis have come forward despite danger of death to confirm it.
It is widespread. And you believe anything else wait say 5 years and see how much comes out about how bad it actually is.
Time is my friend. It will show what I'm saying to be correct.
Terrorists are not covered under the geneva conventions. When I was in the Navy, I carried an ID that stated specifically I was covered under the Geneva Conventions(Aussie Military does to). Quick question for ya? Why are you quick to critisize the U.S. so much for alleged torture. Why don't you critisize Al Queda for it? I haven't seen any U.S. Mil people jumping around with glee after sawing off someones head.
The taliban was the military of Afghanistan. And I'm not expert on international law, but again I'm pretty sure torture is outlawed. In agreements the US is party to.
The US is supposed to be the beacon on the hill for modern democracy, al qaeda as you no doubt think are supposed to be evil camel fuckers. So why don't we stoop to their level?
I'm sure again you'll say pillow biter, but its like a cancer. The lower you go the worse it gets. Isn't that what they want? To destroy your society?
So haven't they already won?
I like how you equate our bombing of civilians with terrorists bombing of civilians. U.S. Mil does everything to avoid collateral damage, terrorists do everything they can to increase it. Feel free to mix in some perspective.
Haha. It does not. Remember the time they took out a city block because Saddam might! have been at a cafe? That's one incident out of hundreds. Just in Iraq.
Ask any non-US soldier, and they'll tell you the safest place to be when fighting with the US is as far away as possible. Their use of ordinance has a reputation amongst soldiers as being overused and misplaced. They kill more of themselves than the enemy. Shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, maybe ask some questions when we get back to base.
And that's again from your allies. Your bossom buddies.
And collateral damage? The British cracked it with the US from the start with their use of weopons indiscriminantly on civilians. They've killed thousands, often for no good reason.
I mean honestly, why don't you just say it? So long as they were only towel heads who cares how many were killed?
I think it will be a much harder decision and task to get Australian and British troops to fight with the Americans again. Well the British, Australia at the moment would send troops to the moon if Bush asked.
Thats comedy right there. Lets list off some of the Euro/UN successes shall we? Balkins, for years we told the Euros it was their problem and they should deal with it. The Euros bickered amongst themselves until B.Clinton said make it happen. Rwanda? Wow!! The way the UN stood up to the challenge and let their own troops get massacred, to say nothing about what happened to the rest of the country. Big success there UN!! When it comes down to it nothing happens in this world until America says make it happen. And then everyone bitches that it took America to make it happen.
Well I can at least partially agree with you there. The only time something gets fixed is when the French, British, Germans, Spanish go and do it by themselves.
The UN are too cheap to send good troops anywhere. So most of the time it ends up being third world troops who are too busy raping and stealing to get anything done.
Not really theats, china and india particurly will begin to have strong economies, in fact they are already growing quickly. Both value trade with the U.S. to start to much of a pissing contest.
Yep, threats. China is building up its military alarmingly. India and China have emerging middle classes and exploding economies that are sucking investment and technology etc away from the US.
So they are huge threats to the US. Huge. In fact they threaten to topple the US as a world power. Its hard to maintain military power when you have a destroyed economy.
I wasn't saying Spain surrendered in WW2. I was comparing how long it took them to surrender in the GWOT versus the time it took the French to surrender in WW2. Yes spain surrendered in GWOT.
OK. But they didn't surrender.
I was aware of the significance of the two places. If Islam views our culture as bad and are deeply offended by being on SA territory(at the Govt of SA request) then they have deep flaws in their culture not ours. If you invite someone into your home, would you not welcome them? BTW we weren't at M/M sites specifically. The bases were pretty far from them(as I understand) it wasn't like we were standing in their shadows.
The US won't even let their arab allies run their ports. Yet its ok for the US to put bases in any country they like.
Asks the Japs, Phillipinos, Saudis, Australians for that matter, Cubans, former Russian republics etc etc etc how they feel about US bases.
The Saudi rulers, pretty much to the chargrin of all saudis, puppets of the Americans, only asked the US in to defend them against a menacing Iraq. Then bugger off. But they never did.
Imagine what America would do if the Palestinians invited the Iranians in to protect them from the Jews.
Oil has everything to do with it(or at least a major part of it). Your job depends on my country getting oil. The U.S. economy drives the global economy(at least into the foreseeable future).
It was sarcasm.
Can you please get your positions straight? First you say that the UN/Europe can handle these problems. Then why don't they? Then you get off a blast about the war in Iraq is an "Illegal invasion". Now you want us to go and whack an African nation? Which is it? Is America is the leader? Or not? America should intervine? Or not? Now you're the one reacting emotionally.
I never said the UN could do anything. And the US has done its equal best to cripple the UN for as long as I can remember anyway, because the UN tells America no-no when she wants to hear "whatever you say, and we'll come along too!. So America tries to cripple Europe, the UN, Russia, China, Latin America etc etc etc for its own ends. Then you whinge about the UN / Europe / every country in the world being useless.
I'm again perhaps being a bit too satirical for you to understand. Again its sarcasm, the pauper's wit as they say.
See, what I'm saying is, and I'll explain it slowly, is that its fine for America to be big and noble when it suits them, but when something 10 times worse is happening its turn a blind eye time. Get it???
The only thing wrong was your use of the word "most", I agreed it was worth it to put a stop to the killing. We just removed the last of our troops about a year ago. Granted they were not having as difficult time as they would in Iraq, but they were only supposed to stay a year. That goes to show sometimes these things take longer than an hour minus comercial breaks.
Well, again I say I think of all the American "interventions" I can think of, it was the most succesful in a number of key areas.
We can get the ones that want to kill us. I'd rather fight them in Iraq than in the streets of New York/Los Angeles. If you have to fight them in the streets of Sydney you have already lost, your just trying to contain the damage. The GWOT must be offensive in nature.
Iraq didn't have an awful lot of terrorists b4 it was invaded. And most of the "terrorists" are in fact formerly mind your own business Iraqiis.
So that's a win isn't it.
GWOT is just a load of shit to justify whatever America feels like doing. Its all just a bunch of chest-beating flag-waving shit.
Fight them? How you going to fight them on the streets?
I think you have been listening too much to Bush and all the other war-mongers. War is profit.
If that is your definition of right then..... Wow... I mean Wow....
Do you even know how many countries there are in Europe? Do you know how many governments are right-wing? Do you know what right-wing means?
You're just stabbing blindly because you hate Europe.
You're quite right. It has become more vicious since the Democrats(thats the left wing) in America were thrown from power.
Democrats left-wing? Hardly these days.
Bush and friends dragged politics in America and around the world to new lows. No new low is too low apparently.
Its actually doing ok. Everybody compares it to the late '90s when everybody became rich during the internet boom. The '90s were an abnormal time, everybody got rich, it was free money. We paid for afterward, but we picked up the pieces and rebuilt it smarter. However, there are no instant millionares anymore.
OK. I don't know enough about it and not interested enough to research it. So I'll take your word for it. Are you a debt based economy like Australia? Are you running a record deficit etc? I'm not sure.
The probs with Katrina were not limited to FEMA. This is how I can tell you adhere to the lefty lib newsites. None of lefty news sites critisized the state govenor/city mayor even though they had specific duties/responsibilities as well. And they dropped the ball as badly as FEMA. Understand I am NOT excuseing FEMA/Bush on this one, I am just saying there is more blame to go around.
Yes they did. They've been heaping shit on Mr Song and Dance man the mayor of New Orleans. At all levels. The governer as well. The mayor, I forget his name, seems like a bit of a snake if you ask me.
So I stick it to anyone who deserves it. And most of them do. But Bush as I say was top of the heap.
Isn't Bush supposed to be the head cheese? And such a disaster shouldn't it be led federally?
I would love to. Seriously. I wanted to go when I was in the Navy, but our ship never made it down there. It takes two extra weeks to get there, plus a few days in port, and another two additional weeks to get to the gulf(thats on top of how long it takes us normally). Theres an Aussie girl you could introduce me to.
You're welcome to come visit me. Seriously if you ever come down.
There's always big ships in Perth anyway. But then there's always long time at see, short time in port type troubles. I'm sure you can imagine.
What is FTA? Is that a free trade agreement? This is actually one of the areas I critisize Bush on. He screwed Poland as well(forgot what they were asking for). People who go with us(and yes the Aussies went with us everywhere, even Vietnam) should get special status.
Yes, that's the FTA. One of the areas you critisize Bush? See, you do love him!
Well, its like a million page document, so no one can model the effect, but anytime a big trading partner trades with a smaller one, its always bad for the smaller one.
And a lot of the stuff in the FTA is a direct threat to Australia. Just one is drugs. We get highly subsidised drugs here. That will be removed piece by piece. In many respects all the good things about Australia will be removed as we become more like America. Healthcare and so on I mean. $70 for a bandaid. A lot of healthcare here is free of subsidised.
Not sure why your bringing this up(it may have something to do with the fact I'm handing you your ass). Everybody is pretty much over the fact that Hamas won(I don't understand why everybody was shocked, I saw it coming a mile off. Just wasn't sure if they could take a majority or not). Most will/should recognoze Hamas as the legit gov't of the Palestians. However, they shouldn't deal with them, because there is that little thing we call "Genocide". That when you swear to wipe out an entire culture of people(in this case jews).
Handing me my arse? I think again you're living in a fantasy.
Everything you've said so far has been "Bush 101" or "because we're the best". No facts, nothing. Just stuff you'd hear off FOX everyday. Nothing balanced. Nothing objective. Give me a "Hell yeah, USA USA USA". That's the reasoning behind everything here.
Condie Rice and Bush and the team have been whining and leaning on other countries about Hamas winning since it happened. So I'm not sure where you've been.
Israel is another country pissed off with the US. The US seems to think it owns Israel. I've seen the fascination a lot of the right in America have with Israel, but I don't think the feeling is shared.
My point about it was that US style democracy will fail in most parts of the world. Especially when ppl know its all crooked, and if against the odds the "bad guys" [bad for the US] get in, then the US will do their best to oust them.
Ask most of Latin America, another part of the world going over to the left. A lot of it is thumbing the nose at Bush treating them like lackets.
Actually bailing out now would make things worse. The last you or I want is the terrorists to think they have a chance of winnning, that more than anything will drive up their recruiting.
That is wrong thinking. So what, stay in Iraq 50, 60, 70 years?
Blowing up muslims and arabs and treating them like dogs is driving up recruiting.
Its just stoking the fires, giving them ammunition, iys a propoganda boom!
We've been out for quite a while. Prior to Iraq War v2.0
O I think you'll find there's still plenty of "military advisors" etc. Not to mention more money-vulture companies than you can waive a stick at.
Reward terrorism, didn't see that one coming from you. Whats next, give medals to mass murderers.
Hey, its only been 60 years. Maybe the Jews would like another 60 years of getting blown up. Super.
I mean I've got this dog that barks. Everytime he barks I bang myself on the head with a hammer.
I can't stop til the dog stops barking. Its the only way he'll learn, and I refuse to give him the satisfaction of stopping hitting myself on the head.
Right on! Good thinking. Great logic. If it hasn't worked after over half a century, try it again for another 50 years!
I just give up. I mean how can ppl be so blind?
Hey, if you're not religious, have you ever had Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door?
Doesn't matter what you say, what evidence you give them, you try to have a philosophical conversation with them, even to explore possibilities, they just shut you down and won't listen?
They get that glazed over brainwashed stare in the eye? Nothing gets through no matter how much evidence you present?
But its been shown Jesus couldn't possibly be born on December 25th. There's irristable proof. Its ok, I'm not saying there isn't a god or Jesus, I mean you've just got to be flexible, pragmatic and logical.
That's not what they've been told, so no matter what, they'll never listen.
Get where I'm coming from? I'd admit Bush was Jesus Christ if I saw enough evidence. I'm quite flexible.
But when you develop a certain rigid dogma, then there is little point saying anything, no matter if you have the videotape, the signed confession, the 1 000 witnesses yada yada yada.
[Rant]
Everybody told us we'd lose WW2, we'd lose the Cold War against the Soviet Union. Now everybody is telling us we're going to lose this one. Not buying it. It will take a long time.
[/Rant]
No one told you you'd lose WW2. The axis was trying to get you in for years. Well not many.
No one said you'd lose the cold war. Well not many. How can a society based on greed beat a society based on communism? Communism was always going to fail, because it goes against basic human nature.
Vietnam: loss. Korea: loss [at the verybest a draw.
Iraq is only going to get worse. How is it going to get better? It just simply can't.
Save this post. And read it again in 5 years. You will see.
Without wishing to go all Rob Longshot on you, since a very early age I've had an entirely boring to others fascination with geo-politics and history. I've studied it, its my hobby, I can't get enough of it. It infuriates others the depth of my banality when it comes to these sorts of things.
I also, unlikes university academic types before you go accusing me, live in the real middle class world most ppl live in. I avoid propoganda and have a very cynical view of anything anyone ever tells me, as I say ppl lie and have agendas.
So I say, from an objective and informed viewpoint as most ppl could possible have, much of what you say is simply going to be proved wrong.
When you actually defend FOX, stick up for Bush almost all the time, it shows exactly where you are coming from. And if you cannot see exactly that, even deep down, then you are kidding yourself.
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151834 - 03/14/06 12:12 AM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
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Yeah I hear there's college kids all over the country getting beaten to death and subjected to months of torture and summary executions. No wonder they don't have a frat system here.
Oh, brother. Kindly post proof of "months of torture" and "summary executions", where the proof does not come from a leftist source or a Jihadi with a vested interest in getting "useful idiots" to advocate his cause.
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I'm one of those ppl who aren't America who get a bit annoyed with yee-hah elements of America who are directly helping send America down the tubes.
America..."down the tubes"? Wanna compare GDP's? How about birth rates? Unemployment rates? If you want to see countries that are shrinking demographically and economically, hold your nose and visit continental Europe. Ignore the "chicken little" hype that comes from our leftwing mass media.
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Michael Moore is self-serving. I never mentioned him. The CIA themselves have documentary evidence of their dealings with the mujahadeen and Osama. Its no secret. But to you apparently it is. I thought it was pretty commonly accepted fact.
I do believe it was the most prominent Brit of the 20th century who said something like "there are no permanent alliances, only temporary interests". (Churchill, to be specific.) In the late seventies/early eighties, the interests of virtually all the world were served by bleeding the USSR dry and limiting their ability to expand their territory. Don't take any US-Mujahedeen involvement outside of that context or as "proof" of other conspiracies. (Not accusing you, but this is a common thing I have seen others on the left do.)
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Iraq was pretty much a no-go zone for Osama and friends. In fact they hated each other. You would have been better off invading Saudi Arabia.
Would you have supported an invasion of Saudi Arabia? Or would we be listening to the familiar left-wing tropes like "no war for oil" or "Bush's oil buddies" as we hear now? That would most certainly be the case, hence why the left should be ignored domestically and globally. If they want to be listened to, they can actually start winning elections. (Which hasn't really happened, outside of Zapatero's Al-Qaeda endorsement in Spain on 3/11.)
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Haha. It does not. Remember the time they took out a city block because Saddam might! have been at a cafe? That's one incident out of hundreds. Just in Iraq.
Ask any non-US soldier, and they'll tell you the safest place to be when fighting with the US is as far away as possible. Their use of ordinance has a reputation amongst soldiers as being overused and misplaced. They kill more of themselves than the enemy. Shoot first, shoot second, shoot third, maybe ask some questions when we get back to base.
And that's again from your allies. Your bossom buddies.
I've heard this from many Euro-leftists, but never seen any poll data or anything else. I suspect this is something of a stereotype based on hysterical news reports. Friendly fire is probably as old as warfare itself, and when the US does the heavy lifting in virtually all military endeavors, one would expect most incidents to be attributed to the US rather than the non-American tokens.
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The taliban was the military of Afghanistan. And I'm not expert on international law, but again I'm pretty sure torture is outlawed. In agreements the US is party to.
I suggest you check to see who is represented under the Geneva Conventions and therefore gets such protections. I think you'll find it only applies to lawful combatants between warring signatory nations. The Taliban were never signatories and Al-Qaeda definitely was not. They also don't meet the requirements of the lawful combatant, such as bearing arms openly, wearing a fixed insignia visible at a distance, etc. (This is why spies and saboteurs were historically executed, despite representing signatory nations.)
If you want to create "snivel rights" for terrorists, the Geneva Convention does not help you. If you want to make arguments based on morality and PR, you may, but what you might call the "moral high ground" is what I'd call weakness or the reckless endangerment of lives by placing arbitrary limitations on the ability to deal flexibly and effectively with dangerous adversaries.
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The US is supposed to be the beacon on the hill for modern democracy, al qaeda as you no doubt think are supposed to be evil camel fuckers. So why don't we stoop to their level?
I'm sure again you'll say pillow biter, but its like a cancer. The lower you go the worse it gets. Isn't that what they want? To destroy your society?
So haven't they already won?
"Stoop to their level"...really. When do we start beheading captives on CNN? How about crashing a plane into Mecca?
The only obligations the US government has is to its own citizens, not to detained Jihadists. Despite leftist hysterics over domestic intelligence gathering or Guantanamo, life in America is the same as ever for virtually all its citizens. The detention or even the execution of German saboteurs in WWII certainly did not mean they "already won", as the detention or execution of Guantanamo detainees would not mean they "already won". In fact, executing saboteurs was good policy as would the liquidation of Guantanamo's detainees, despite the potential hearing loss from European sniveling.
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The US won't even let their arab allies run their ports. Yet its ok for the US to put bases in any country they like.
Asks the Japs, Phillipinos, Saudis, Australians for that matter, Cubans, former Russian republics etc etc etc how they feel about US bases.
You do know most of these bases are leased, right? Their aggrieved "feelings" are generally a gambit for demanding more money. In the case of Cuba, an unexpiring agreement was signed with the Batista regime, which is still valid, despite the fact Castro regularly refuses to accept the due payment.
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Yep, threats. China is building up its military alarmingly. India and China have emerging middle classes and exploding economies that are sucking investment and technology etc away from the US.
So they are huge threats to the US. Huge. In fact they threaten to topple the US as a world power. Its hard to maintain military power when you have a destroyed economy.
Who exactly is making the money on China and India's growth? Typically the US firms which sell the technology or gain equity for their shareholders by saving expenses on the discounted labor. As the average Chinaman or Indian gains money, they will find themselves consumers of American products and accordingly enrichers of America. Even trade defecits/surpluses don't tell a clear story: Which would be the "American" company? Nike, with its workforce of mostly third world Asians? Or a Chinese firm where the majoity shareholders are the California Public Employees Retirement System?
And, economically, the big losers of a US collapse would be the same international investor class which bankrolls the growth of India and China. The cliche says when the US sneezes, the rest of the world gets the flu. Plus, such economic ties decrease the prospect of warfare, in the same way economic integration has made future wars between Western European nations exceptionally unlikely.
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GWOT is just a load of shit to justify whatever America feels like doing. Its all just a bunch of chest-beating flag-waving shit.
Fight them? How you going to fight them on the streets?
I think you have been listening too much to Bush and all the other war-mongers. War is profit.
Now here you go. Another leftist terror sympathiser outs himself: "terrorism doesn't exist, it's all just a conspiracy to enable the evil Americans to engage in imperialism." (Just as one would hear on an al-Zawahiri tape.) And you were doing so well avoiding the major cliches like "war-mongers", etc. How's the appeasement working out in France, BTW? They've led the vanguard of the pro-terrorist Europeans, yet they still had weeks of Islamic rioting (domestic terrorism) with no resistance.
Enjoy your dhimmitude. Have fun riding on your London buses with all the British-born Muslims rubbing their hands at the prospect of detonating their backpacks and killing you. But maybe you'll get lucky and they'll just burn your car or gangrape your girlfriend/wife if she walks unescorted to a corner store.
I'll just take it as proof that the centuries of internecine wars left the brave Europeans who deserved to survive dead, and the cowards, faint-hearts, and traitors alive to overwhelm future generations with inferior genetic material. 
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#151835 - 03/14/06 03:16 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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I actually have things to do today, but if I'm bored I will reply to you phlog. Its no disrespect, its just taking a million years to reply to each post.
And quite frankly I think you, and to a lesser degree c62, are beyond any sort of reasoned discussion beyond the propoganda that cloaks the US like a fog. Which is particuarly pointed to me when I start reading words that as I keep saying are Bushisms For Dummies, verbatum, ad nauseum.
Of all the posters on here I feel you are probably the most pro-right pro-Bush anti-Europe anti-muslim anti-anything not American. Just as it would be difficult to reason with an al-qaeda sympathiser [and there are many in the islamic world, even if they don't support their methods] equally its hard to reason with the inversely proportionate of the other side. ie: You.
War shouldn't be inevitable, but sometimes it is. I'm a realist. Sometimes the right way is so hard you might as well take the wrong way. That goes for all things.
I'm pragmatic enough to realise that. So I'm not chicken little. I'm not a leftie pillow-biting yada yada.
And I get the impression you think I'm European. I am not. I am of European decent. But then so probably are you. Just a bit further back.
I get the feeling, and from having this sort of conversation with any number of Americans over the last few years, and saying things, and them coming true time after time, like the Jehovah's witnesses, it is very hard to reason with ppl.
There are of course Americans who feel exactly the same way as I do on many of these issues. But you probably hate them even more.
As I say, I pretty much had ppl threatening to kill me, calling me traitor, coward etc etc etc when I simply pointed out history and geo-politics dictate that Iraq will prove to be a huge mistake, cause countless deaths on all sides and be pretty much a huge waste of time, effort, money, life, goodwill etc.
Don't forget we here get an awful lot of American content. But we get other countries content too. I think America has so much cultural output, and some would charge disinterest in the rest of the world, that pretty much everything in America is America if that makes sense.
It is very hard to see things from a different perspective when you are incased in a total institution. Which makes me wonder if all this is completely futile and is just reinforcing your own beliefs, as you are responding in aggressive defence mode.
It can be quite earth-shattering, confusing and upsetting having your beliefs challenged. Which is why its best to be open-minded and pragmatic.
There was a short time I actually thought Iraq might work out. And that was annoying because I hate being wrong. But it was a very short window, and unfortunately its all back on track.
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151836 - 03/14/06 06:44 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
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Ok, I cut down a the number of things a little, I'm typeing more here than at work Quote:
And the BBC is one of the world leaders in objective reporting.
and then you said
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And I say again, anyone who believes anything on FOX is mentally defective.
BBC is one of the most anti-american broadcasting agencis out there. Even the NY Times has had to take a step back and say "Damn, dudes, chill out a little".
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The CIA themselves have documentary evidence of their dealings with the mujahadeen and Osama.
Mujahadeen yes, Osama no. They were not the same, Osama would have killed any American on sight that tried to give him help to fight the Soviets in A-stan. Most of Osamas boys didn't do the fighting, they stayed in northern P-stan and chanted "Death To America" day in and day out.
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Iraq was pretty much a no-go zone for Osama and friends. In fact they hated each other.
You're correct in stating they didn't care for one another, however, they were cozing up to one another. It was that whole "My enemy's enemy is my friend thing".
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Many international law experts would disagree.
Ironically, they all happen to hate Bush.
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And you believe anything else wait say 5 years and see how much comes out about how bad it actually is.
There was a Belgum General came over and toured Gitmo, said we were treating them far better than they would have. A freaking Euro saying we were soft???
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The US is supposed to be the beacon on the hill for modern democracy,
We are, why won't the rest of the world help us bring democracy to Iraq? Because they hate Bush so much it prevents them from looking at the big picture. If the democracies of the world would bind together, and knock off this sillyness Iraq would have calmed down by now.
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al qaeda as you no doubt think are supposed to be evil camel fuckers
They are.
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So why don't we stoop to their level?
We don't.
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The British cracked it with the US from the start with their use of weopons indiscriminantly on civilians. They've killed thousands, often for no good reason.
Man, you got some good weed. [By The Way] What does "cracked it" mean[/By The Way]
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The only time something gets fixed is when the French, British, Germans, Spanish go and do it by themselves.
So I can expect the Iran thing to solved shortly? 3/4 of those countries are supposed to be handling it.
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China is building up its military alarmingly. India and China have emerging middle classes and exploding economies that are sucking investment and technology etc away from the US.
So they are huge threats to the US. Huge. In fact they threaten to topple the US as a world power. Its hard to maintain military power when you have a destroyed economy.
You are correct in china's buildup. But intentions are harder to decipher than counting tanks. You stated in your post about the Chinese middle class is exploding. That sort of thing creates pressure to democratize**. **Disclaimer: Hopefully.
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Asks the Japs
Stationed there for 2 years, not a problem with population.
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Phillipinos
We left when they demanded too much money for their bases, they wanted us there.
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Saudis
Again, they invited us in. From the civillian point of view, they need us there to run their businesses, and other technical things. Most Saudis, who get degrees, get them in "Religous Studies" which isn't helpful in business/medicene/technical/etc. And most find that type of work demeaning so we do. AAAAhhhh Saudi Arabia, a bastion of religous tolerance.
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Australians
Don't know, never been there. I'm not evan sure if we've have/had any US military presence there long term, beyond port calls.
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Cubans
Fidel doesn't like us there, don't know about the population in general though. Dictators are funny like that, sometimes(always) don't think of the people the "represent".
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its fine for America to be big and noble when it suits them, but when something 10 times worse is happening its turn a blind eye time. Get it???
To some degree, hopefully you can get this. Everytime we do something, somebody on this planet, of roughtly 6 billion people, is going to get pissed off. EXAMPLE: Stop a brutal war in Africa, and the dictator who started it will be pissed off at us, then you will start screaming about bad we are. In short, we can't please all of the people all of time. You only listen to the ones that we can't please.
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Well, again I say I think of all the American "interventions" I can think of, it was the most succesful in a number of key areas.
Generally it was.
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Iraq didn't have an awful lot of terrorists b4 it was invaded.
Yes it did, many groups trained there. Very Well Documented(beside Fox News).
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Do you even know how many countries there are in Europe? Do you know how many governments are right-wing? Do you know what right-wing means?
You're just stabbing blindly because you hate Europe.
More or less, I don't keep a running tally in my head. Right-wing means oppressing everyone, stealing everything, and killing lots of people for money right. Whoops forgot the [sarcasm] tags. I don't hate Europe, just disappointed. Its a continent with so much potential, yet all they care about is their "social justice". They could compete head on with America, but they're more concerned their August vacation.
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Democrats left-wing? Hardly these days.
Bush and friends dragged politics in America and around the world to new lows. No new low is too low apparently.
Nope, started with the Robert Bork nomination and went down hill from there.
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So I'll take your word for it. Are you a debt based economy like Australia? Are you running a record deficit etc? I'm not sure.
You can take my word for it. We are a DEBT based economy big time. Another one of my critisms of the Republican party is the way they're spending.
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Isn't Bush supposed to be the head cheese? And such a disaster shouldn't it be led federally?
Yes, and the second is sorta. Thats one of the reasons it got fucked up. Divisions of responsibilities weren't as clear as they should have been, coupled with some bad info.
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There's always big ships in Perth anyway.
For some reason, I thought you lived in Melbourne??? No idea why I thought that??
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We get highly subsidised drugs here. That will be removed piece by piece. In many respects all the good things about Australia will be removed as we become more like America. Healthcare and so on I mean. $70 for a bandaid. A lot of healthcare here is free of subsidised
Not sure how your medical system is run. It doesn't cost us $70 for a bandaid. In fact, most medical cost are pretty reasonable, its when you get something like cancer prices hit the roof. All in all I would say our medical care is better here than in Canada/Europe. Its cheaper there(people go there to get the drugs), but we get better service here(people come here to be treated). Kinda Weird.
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Everything you've said so far has been "Bush 101"
Not really, I've critisized him and praised, its you who hasn't stopped the critism. I have demenostrated my objectivity. Show yous. State something you think Bush has done right in the national/international arena.
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My point about it was that US style democracy will fail in most parts of the world. Especially when ppl know its all crooked
Are you saying democracy in general, or American-style. I wasn't aware there was a differance. Democracy is when they have the right to choose their own government. If you are so against democracy what form of gov't should the people have?
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have you ever had Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door?
Yea, I was wearing a Death Metal T-shirt one of my brothers loaned me, they never came back.
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So I say, from an objective and informed viewpoint as most ppl could possible have, much of what you say is simply going to be proved wrong.
Objective in liberal kool-aid drinking sort of way.
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When you actually defend FOX, stick up for Bush almost all the time, it shows exactly where you are coming from. And if you cannot see exactly that, even deep down, then you are kidding yourself.
When Fox offers(and follows though) by bringing on their critics and letting them have their say it goes a long way with me. They read emails on the air critisizeing them. As far as Bush goes I've critisized/praised him when he did a bad/good job. I've shown objectivity. You have not. All your studies have revolved around left wing thinking. Go get some books by the right wing so you can get some perspective.... It'll help you win some of these debates
P.S. About invading SA. I think we should, seriously. Their "version" of Islam is Wahabbi and its pretty violent/oppressive.
P.P.S. The editings way worse in this one. 
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If cum was concrete, Quasarman would have a four lane freeway going down his throat. - pariah
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#151837 - 03/14/06 09:00 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Again, you and phlog have subdued me by the length of replies. But pretty much everything you have both said is "American Stereotype V.1". How can you argue with ppl who chant meaningless slogans and propoganda? Who are so defensive and hateful anything but kill kill kill is unacceptable? Would you try to reason with a muslim screaming "Allah akbar" wildly and praising Osama? Probably not. I wouldn't. So I like to think I fall in the middle of the two extremes of both sides. I do like to think it would be easier to reason with ppl such as yourselves, but you make it hard. So in short, yes, it is very difficult to argue with ppl who are so dogmaticly entrained. And I say again, its very hard to see the wood for the trees when you have ppl standing in front of you flapping away and sticking their hands over your eyes. This is an American source that came up first from google. From msnbc which you can't say is overly left wing. I'm not sure about the author. He might be a left-wing fly-by-nighter, he sounds a bit like it, but there's plenty of other stuff on it. http://msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1I thought it was a pretty widely acknowledged "fact" that Osama received CIA funding, but I'm suprised that it is not. I mean so what if he did? It was convinient at the time. But my point is that its quite hypocritical and totally reinforces my point of hero or zero depends on what side of the US administration you sit on today. Again I suspect more smoke and mirrors and propoganda and historical revisionism for the times we live in. So at this point in time at least, I can't be bothered going through point by point. But as I say, give it five years and re-read what I've written and see how much of it is true. The US government, media moguls such as Rupert Murdoch [you can have him] and the US military have become quite expert at spin-doctoring. So it absolutely no suprise to me that many Americans still believe things that are clearly untrue. We can see it in the cultural output of America, which is increasingly all about chest-beating and propoganda. A sign of the times I think. The US economy is built on its military. Who suffers when the US is not at war? Its military. And its economy. And the companies, ppl and other entities that feed off the US military. If you can't have a war on [insert word, terrorism, drugs, gangs, teenage delinquents etc etc etc], then how are you going to scare the ppl into submission and compliance? Free thought and ideas are very very dangerous things. I'm starting to sound like George Orwell. But 1984 the book , written what, 70 years ago was it? I forget. But anyway its hilarious in its currency, even after all the changes the world has gone through since it was written. Just have a think about it. Step back, stop thinking I'm attacking America, and just have a few thoughts on a few issues of "what if....".
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151838 - 03/14/06 09:16 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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BTW, "cracked it", or "cracked the shits" means they've gotten really annoyed. Vets of Australia and Britain have said since WW2 and possibly before what I said about the US hosing down anything that moves. "All the gear no idea" is what they say. I've also heard many Aussie vets say the US are always last in, first out in sticky situations. Just what's been said many times. I've never faught with them. I've heard interviews from US soldiers themselves who said for the first month they shot anything that moved. Regardless of what it was. Which really ticked off the British. Its very hard to win hearts and minds when the hearts and minds are splattered all over the joint. And don't forget a lot of the US forces in Iraq are weekend warriors. It always amazes me what they let reservists do in the US forces. You've got artillery do policing and raids etc. You've got fat bubba the crop-duster pilot flying F-16 once a month as is my understanding. Some of the US pilots I've seen would get kicked out of most armed forces for being too fat. I know they're over-stretched, and its really starting to show [another huge problem facing America], but it just amazes me the US military sometimes. Shooting down civilian commercial aircraft for instance. Shooting down allied planes. Shooting down their own planes. I know I shouldn't laugh, but some of it is good for a chuckle. I have a very black sense of humour. O, and Australia is I can't remember the weasel word for it, synchronising or something, its forces with American forces. The joint strike fighter [looking more and more like a dud, but we're well and truly signed up], heavy tanks we don't need for anything but being with the US, planes to transport the tanks across the world. I'll never forget the 2 rust buckets the US sold to us for like $800 million I think it was. Wouldn't let us inspect them beforehand. I wonder why. So yes, we love getting redundant, ageing and irrelevant heaps of crap from the US all the time, being as we're such a respected ally and all. So I would say expect to see the US and Australia going to some new theatre of war sometime in the next 5 years. I mean Iraq and Afghanistan are going so well and all, I'm sure there's somewhere else we can go. There's probably 30+ countries we can find an excuse to invade. Roll on, roll on. Roam if you want to, Roam around the world, Roam if you want to, Without anything but the love we feel. Fly the great big sky, See the great big sea, Kick through continents, Bustin' boundaries.
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151840 - 03/14/06 10:35 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Gay For Pay
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 900
Loc: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
The Saracen have hearts and minds?
Tomax...what up bro?
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#151841 - 03/15/06 12:45 AM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Icon
Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
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I hope that this prattling has amounted to something, because I quit reading after post # 5.
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#151844 - 03/15/06 05:39 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
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Quote:
I hope that this prattling has amounted to something, because I quit reading after post # 5.
More accurately, it was C62 and myself making observations from the mainstream American perspective, while being prodded with the usual leftist Eurotrash cliches:
1.) America is an unilateralist nation, despite leading a coalition of 17 countries, including most of NATO.
2.) Islam is a sacrosanct and harnless religion and should venerated by all. Christians, on the other hand, are the real terrorists and should be sent to concentration camps.
3.) Iraq was a "war for oil", despite record gas prices.
4.) Foxnews is the devil. The BBC, a state-owned entity operated by shiftless government bureaucrats, magically has no agenda.
5.) Bush is simultaneously the dumbest man in the world, but somehow a master manipulator who controls the public and orchestrates massive conspiracies to dominate the Earth.
6.) The American military is "incompetent", despite the ability to annihilate the army of any other country over the course of a three day weekend.
7.) Europe is the model for the world, despite their floundering economies and shrinking populations which are aborting and sodomizing themselves out of existence. (Except the Muslims, of course.)
8.) Fighting terrorism is bad. The terrorism that killed +3,000 Americans on 9/11 should have been trivialied into a matter for courts, like littering or tearing tags off of mattresses.
Etc, etc, ad nauseum. If you go over to ADT and engage Steph in a political conversation, you'll get the same stuff. There can be no greater proof your mental processes are defective than when you agree with Steph on something.
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#151845 - 03/15/06 06:11 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Everything you ever write about is some "Eurotrash conspiracy". Europe is many nations, all with differing interests. Lumping them together is liking lumping the Americas together.
In short:
1.) America is an unilateralist nation, despite leading a coalition of 17 countries, including most of NATO.
Yeah, the original coalition of the drilling was the US, Britain, and 5 guys named Davo they found drinking in the Coolangatta Pig's Ear Tavern.
"Window dressing" or "token legitimisation" I think is the term for the non US/UK forces which amount to pretty much nada. And they really had to lean on the UK and Australia to go along in the first place. Nice to see nations like Poland trying to access Europe and the west going along for the ride, nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more, leave it to us.
2.) Islam is a sacrosanct and harnless religion and should venerated by all. Christians, on the other hand, are the real terrorists and should be sent to concentration camps.
No, religion is the problem, not the solution. Extremist christians are as dangerous as extremist muslims. They just prey to a different god.
3.) Iraq was a "war for oil", despite record gas prices.
Yep, it was. The fact its a complete pig's arse dog's breakfast has had the opposite effect to the desired effect. The fact Bush has had to pay lip service to curning US dependance on oil illustrates just how drastic the blow-back actually was / is.
And all the "the US hasn't made one single dime from Iraqi oil" is a convinient distraction. Freeing up the oil and dictating to who it got sold to has a lot more to do with it.
4.) Foxnews is the devil. The BBC, a state-owned entity operated by shiftless government bureaucrats, magically has no agenda.
Foxnews is the devil. I don't care if you want to hold right wing views, but for god's sakes don't believe anything fox tells you. Its owned by Murdoch, who is unashamedly a huge supportr of Bush.
And if you don't believe money buys you political influence, ask John Ashcroft why he refuses to even investigate allegations arising from Mormon teen retraining camps, who fund republicans to the tune of $US1 million a year. Just a little example.
Isn't Blair all the way with Bush? So why would he let the BBC bash America? I maintain the BBC is one of the finest news outlets in the world, the fact they don't always agree with US policy is a reflection of the rest of the world. Fox on the other hand would tell you Bush was Jesus Christ and they can prove it because Bush is part of "burning bush" with a straight face.
5.) Bush is simultaneously the dumbest man in the world, but somehow a master manipulator who controls the public and orchestrates massive conspiracies to dominate the Earth.
Bush is dumb as shit. Everyone knows it. Its the ppl puppeteering him that are the problem. Bush knows nothing of the world, and doesn't care, he has advisors for that sort of thing and ppl that run the country while he holidays or gets off work early everyday. He's the laziest president of all time.
Like all his failed businesses, he was always the frontman, the salesman, never the brains. Same here.
6.) The American military is "incompetent", despite the ability to annihilate the army of any other country over the course of a three day weekend.
Army. Yet a country of 30 million stone-age goat-herders like Afghanistan it can't subdue. Or 26 million camel-fuckers. Both nations long ago turned busted-arse.
The US is bar far far far the most sophisticated and powerful force in the world. How they could *not* win anything boggles the mind.
I can give you endless examples of US incompetance.
7.) Europe is the model for the world, despite their floundering economies and shrinking populations which are aborting and sodomizing themselves out of existence. (Except the Muslims, of course.)
I think you'll find America has a low birthrate too.
I also think, despite what c62 says, the American economy is hardly rosey, and its going to face increasing pressure from China and India and Russia.
And what's wrong with sodomy? You're on a porno board where sodomy is more normal than vaginal. Unless that's a gay slur on Europe, in which case that's saying more about yourself than I need to.
8.) Fighting terrorism is bad. The terrorism that killed +3,000 Americans on 9/11 should have been trivialied into a matter for courts, like littering or tearing tags off of mattresses.
I think the final figure was revised to well below 3 000, not that that isn't a tragedy, I just enjoy pointing out factual errors.
Creating terrorism is worse than fighting it my friend. And as many US reports have said, Iraq and other misadventures are creating terrorists that simply weren't there beforehand.
Which is exactly what the hardcore terrorists wanted in the first place!
So you're doing everything you can to help them succeed!
And "terrorism" is such a weasel word used to describe and justify anything you like as to be pretty much a meaningless word.
The other side calls the US terrorists all the time. Its just communism for the new age. I mean what's worse than someone being accused of being a terrorist? Perhaps Rummy or Wolfie can set up a McCarthy style commission, root out all those bombers under the bed etc.
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151846 - 03/15/06 07:58 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Human Garbage
Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 1545
Loc: In the tree outside Gia Jordan...
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#151849 - 03/16/06 08:56 AM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope that this prattling has amounted to something, because I quit reading after post # 5.
To sum it up. Jack Mehoff is crying, bed-wetting, bleeding-heart liberal and I pretty much destroyed his personal ideology. He's sad now.
(J M before)->
(J M after)->
Sorry Jack for pointing all the problems with your point of view. But personal reflection can be a powerful thing. If you take what I say to heart you can be a gun-toting, bible-thumping, hard-working Australian. 
P.S. Sorry about the bible-thumping part, I know you hate christians. You can change it [Insert Lefty-Liberal Book/Micheal Moore Movie/BBC Show/NY Times article]-thumping if you prefer.
I usually find rabid right-wing dogs lack a sense of humour. Thanks for reinforcing my opinion.
O go on then, ha ha, ha ha, ha ha ha ha.
You shall see. Like I said how paper thin Powell's UN address was, and ppl were like no, that was stirring stuff.
I will from time to time take the opportunity to point out events I predicted.
So, save my posts, wait 5 years, read again. 
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151850 - 03/16/06 09:10 AM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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AC Cream Wannabe
Registered: 10/22/05
Posts: 495
Loc: Inactive: Banned for spam appa...
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Quote:
The only thing lamer than using the leftist talking points I cited is defending them. I suppose I'll have to wait until the sequel to Fahrenheit 9/11 is released before I hear the new talking points.
Ironic that when America-haters need things to parrot, they actually pay Americans like Michael Moore* to give them their lines.
*American in citizenship only.
"American-haters" again. You have a reel little man complex about everyone hating America phlog. Its very small minded ppl who constantly feel the need to feel under attack from behind every lampshade and under every flower bed.
Still, hating everything gives you a hobby I guess.
The only thing lamer than defending any position is when you refuse to consider any other reality than the one you are fed quite willingly and swallow it down like the nectar of the gods, not smelly doo-doo.
Phlog, I take great solace in the fact you are self-admittedly the greatest UN / Europe / muslims in fact anything non-American hater here. It gladdens my heart. If you're the worst, then there is hope yet.
Michael Moore has righly been poo-pooed by many on the left in the US and around the world, in fact sometimes he's just plain embarressing. All self-indulgent self-serving and self-agrandising.
I also take great hope in the "fact" [for you kids who argue the sky is blue] that the political tide in the US is turning, ala Vietnam. Wow, isn't that amazing, another Vietnam parallel. The US is very lucky Iraq is flat country.
So I'm not particuarly angry, just somewhat disillusioned that so many can be so short-sighted. But that is the nature of man, as shown countless times throughout human history.
I could tour the country with this stuff. Who's up for a sponsership? We'll call it the XPT Lecture Series, and you can all come and heckle*, and james can bring his wireless laptop and google every single word that departs my puckered lips. Fuckers.
*I must warn you, I am a devastatingly handsome man.
_________________________
Can someone reactivate me please. I vote my deactivation as the lamest ever. You know its right. Do it, do it do it.
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#151851 - 03/16/06 02:01 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Icon
Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
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To whom it may concern: There is a porn forum that values and embraces the sanctimonious and long-winded posters of this world, and that place is ADT.
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#151852 - 03/16/06 08:24 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 5869
Loc: Instead of looking at the girl...
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#151853 - 03/16/06 08:24 PM
Re: Slobodan Milosevic Dead. Nobody Cares
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 5869
Loc: Instead of looking at the girl...
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