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You guys are really wearing me down, honestly.

And you live where? Have you even looked at the crime stats for Australia since the big gun ban? You should check your info better; your crime rate did not go down.

Depends on where you look and how the figures are collated. Victoria crime dropped by 25% soon after. But I don't trust the figures. Gun related crime and death are still relative rareties here thankfully.


I have never seen the NRA seek more or more powerful guns. All I ever see is an organization that fights to protect my constitutional rights. Do you have constitutionally guarantied rights in Canada or Australia?
Where do you get your information?

Yes we do. Well actually not really. The constitution is a little fudgy.

The NRA are always trying to get bans overturned etc. I get my information from various media sources.


This also shows your misinformation. I have stood behind a badge in the US. You have not. TV ain't real life, you do know this right?

Really? How bizarre. So Cops is made up? Its not my only source of information, and I know its edited for entertainment purposes, but some of the inter-juristication publications etc do make my hair stand on end.

So how many US cops do get shot dead a year?

You watch too much TV.
Here it is shoot until the danger to the public is stopped. If you know how to shoot, that's one round. Oh and I like the very professional trained police officer in you your story, walking up to the car and saying” What the fuck are you doing?". That just makes the story more believable. Do the very professional police officers in your country often use that kind of language when they encounter members of the public?


Yep, if its the right sort of public.


That little story is more of a testament to the background of the people in the Mini, than it is about policing in the US. But it is a funny STORY, stupid, untrue... but funny.

Sorry, I didn't know you'd been in the job over here.


It is very simple. We are in charge of our government, not the other way around. And if you are looking for a few countries with hate and mistrust, may I offer Europe, South Africa, the Middle east, Russia, Pakistan the list is too long....... you get the picture.
Now please feel free to rant on my friend. Your views are very liberal but unrealistic to me. Guns are inanimate objects nothing more or less. They are no more evil than a hammer or a baseball bat or a butcher knife…ect.
People are evil. Not inanimate objects.
But hey that's just me. YMMV

Now for some interesting facts: In the US every state that passed a concealed weapons permit law has seen a drop in violent crime. Look it up yourself. Isn’t that strange, by your logic, or lack thereof, shouldn't crime have gone up?

Imagine that, crooks afraid of finding out who is or is not armed.



No shaking the head icon. Darn.

You see, there is no way on earth gun nuts will ever listen.


So what is the point?

I thank my lucky stars every day I live here, honestly I do. And you probably are grateful I do live here. So we're both happy.



See this icon:

Sums up pretty much every Australian's feelings about the gun culture in the US, and every time there is some new shooting. We just don't get it.



I hope james isn't lurking in here, he's my self-appointed academic overlord, I found this in a very very quick search of google. My point is there are two sides to every coin.

http://members.aol.com/Falconnn/nramyth.html

There's plenty of interesting tid-bits in there, but this was my favourite:
An FBI report,"Crime in the United States, 1973" states that a gun kept in the home for self-defense is six times more likely to be used in a deliberate or accidental homicide involving a relative or friend than a burglar or unlawful intruder. More recently, criminologist Arthur Kellerman declared that for every case of gun use for self defense, there are 43 instances where guns are used in suicides, homicides and accidental deaths. But that number may be a bit conservative. According to Federal statistics, for every time a handgun is used by a citizen to kill a criminal, 118 innocent people are killed in handgun murders, suicides and accidents. Studies have shown that people who keep guns at home nearly TRIPLE their chances of being murdered. Whats more, a gun kept at home is 37 times more likely to be used to commit suicide than to be used for self defense. Still believe that possession of a gun makes you safer? Consider this: According to criminologist Arthur Kellermann almost 20 percent of the police officers who are fatally wounded with firearms are shot with their own gun.

Now, yes, someone jump on the voracity, accuracy, agenda etc of the article and provide another ten non-supportive stats.


In a nation with so many rifts, north versus south, black versus white, rich versus poor, [ethncity vs ethnicity], state versus state, and events like Katrina work to magnify the problems, why the hell would anyone want every crazy holmes running around packing enough fire power to kill many times over?


Again, the gun thing is just plain baffling to us. Its amusing, but then you think about how many ppl get blown away etc and its not quite as funny.


And again, I'm sure you've all heard this conversation a billion times in the US from ppl much more passionate and informed than me, so I see little point in carping on.

There is no way to win. So I'm not going to try. I will say however I do appreciate the slightly suprising lack of malice and indecency in the threads I've been silly enough to get dragged into so. I will get smart and go hide somewhere and shut my big mouth I think.

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Just for giggles;

I have been to your country several times, and many of the people I met don't share your opinion. And not a single one ever presented an opinion such as you have. As a point of conversation, most hated the new gun ban law forced on them by their benevolent government.
I also would would try to find some stats dated later than 1973 to bolster my point, If I were on your side of the discussion. A lot of things change in 33 years.

And yes, I'm happy we, both, live where we do.

Oh and as far as being a police officer "over there" , your answer to the question about their professionalism in their use of the Queens English; depends on the color of their skin? That's what made the story smack of BS, or maybe the police, you speak of in that story, are just that unprofessional.

And you are correct a lot of people kill other people with guns, a lot of people kill themselves with guns, and way too many officers are killed in the line of duty; with guns. So by your way of thinking guns are bad. I can respect that, understand it no. Respect it yes.

But let's carry on to all deaths.....
More people are killed in cars in a week than are killed by guns in a year. Cars are bad?

More people commit suicide with prescription drugs in a year than are killed with guns. Prescription drugs are bad?

More people are killed with everyday items, knives, baseball bats, fists, hammers, ice picks, blunt objects ect...than are killed with guns. They all must be bad too.

Where do we stop the banning?

Well we can't ban cars, I bet you need them.

We can't ban prescription drugs; I bet you have needed them from time to time.

And we can't ban all the rest, there would be nothing left to work with.

You see, to me, it has nothing to do with the gun, it has to do with people, and people tend to be hard to regulate.
Bad people will always find a way to prey on the weak, blaming guns is just, in my opinion, a cop out.

But hey that's just my opinion.