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#141303 - 01/19/06 09:54 AM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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Marse Robert, the most beloved American General in History...3rd best Civil War general Behind T.Jackson and W.T. Sherman....
...That fulfills my yearly XPT non-porn, Historical Commentary quota for 2006....now back to cultivating a hopelessly warped mind and distorted view of sex and sexuality.
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#141304 - 01/19/06 09:59 AM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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I'd keep him behind Jackson but still ahead of Sherman, by far. I'd love a referal to a source that discusses that comparison.
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#141305 - 01/19/06 03:43 PM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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Quote:
I'd keep him behind Jackson but still ahead of Sherman, by far. I'd love a referal to a source that discusses that comparison.
In general narratives about the war for southern independence, Foote, Catton or Mcphereson, are good authors to start with as I am sure you probably already know...then break it down by campaign and battle. B.H. Liddle Hart, the English Dude, called Sherman the "father of modern total war", and he is right, The Atlanta Campaign showed Sherman was actually AHEAD of the bozos that ran the First World War, which obviously owed a lot to the Trenches of the Petersburg Campaign. Sherman avoided just about every Trench and impregnable postion Joe Johnston threw up in his path on his march to the city that is now known for strip clubs that give blow jobs to Pro Athletes....Jackson was part Blitzkrieg, part stealthy Ninja in his tactics and strategy. Lee And Grant were both Butchers in Comparison to Sherm and TJ...Joe Johnston was too worried about messing his hair (i.e. Reputation) to realize his potential.
If Patrick Ronan Cleburne had been Given Command of the Army of Tennessee in April 1864 instead of Johnston, or even in July instead of Hood (he was crippled), then the civil war might have lasted another year and half to two years. Cleburne was a great general despite his humble origins, and lousy start as a brigadier....his downfall in the eyes of the Davis Admin, besides being 100% Irish, was in January 1864 he advocated arming the slaves to fight for the South with the promise of freedom...he said "We are gonna lose, and if we do, our way of life, i.e. the slaves, we will lose anyway, so let's remove the North's MORAL cause for war and offer the sleaves freedom ourselves...." Cleburne was blacklisted after that and Died at Franklin, in Hood's Opium Hazed Bloodbath.
I love showing off my Civil war grasp, especially on a porn board...if only I had a wooden leg.....
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#141307 - 01/19/06 04:36 PM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 04/17/04
Posts: 6005
Loc: travieso capital management an...
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if you mean "total war" in the clausewitz sense, i'm not sure the south had the kind of industrialization to qualify. the taiping rebellion preceded the civil war by like a decade and they killed like 30 million people using the same tactics with considerably greater civilian involvement and targeting non-combatants and just going around and fucking shit up.
ancient cultures burned fields, laid siege, and killed every male and enslaved the women. hey they were democratic and shit.
while i agree it was damn close to the tradional clausewitz definition, but crippling an agrarian society(average family) that way had been done before in pretty similar fashion. while there was artillery and even some early submarines and whatnot----the civil war was still pretty much:if you want to stop them from continuing to make war you had to kill the other guy or starve him and do it up-close and personal, half-a-century later it was all about factories and arms races and gasoline and making military-industrial complexes. the civil war was closer to rome and carthage than britain and germany, imho.
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"She has no waist, no arse...an interesting face...but all we are really worshipping is two bags of silicone"
Martin Amis "honoring" katie price with a character bearing some of her traits
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#141308 - 01/19/06 04:45 PM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 09/23/04
Posts: 10321
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I'll dust off the books, but my recollection of Shermans Southern campaign is that it was for the most part unopposed and where he met opposition he went around rather than through it. I guess that is the mark of a good General. Patton did the same thing. Our leaders today should pattern themselves after Robert E. Lee, who never took the credit and was more than willing to take the blame, as he does in this letter he wrote to Jeff Davis after Gettysburg.
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#141309 - 01/20/06 07:18 AM
Re: January 19, 1807
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Porn Jesus
Registered: 01/02/05
Posts: 5750
Loc: ATLANTIC CITY
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Quote:
I'll dust off the books, but my recollection of Shermans Southern campaign is that it was for the most part unopposed and where he met opposition he went around rather than through it. I guess that is the mark of a good General. Patton did the same thing.
Our leaders today should pattern themselves after Robert E. Lee, who never took the credit and was more than willing to take the blame, as he does in this letter he wrote to Jeff Davis after Gettysburg.
Sherman was opposed, he just did exactly what you said, went AROUND everything Johnston threw in his path, with one brief exception, Kennesaw Mountain (Sherman tried a direct assault, lost 3000 dead in an hour and said fuck it...) Of course, Shreman had the numbers to outmaneuver Johnston, but Johnston could, and should have done some maneuvering on his own and attacked Sherman's one HUGE vulnerability, the lengthy supply line back into Tennessee and Kentucky. With calvary geniuses like Bedford Forrest and Joe Wheeler, Johnston had the tools, but it's all monday morning quarterbacking...The Southern Government, by 1864 was up shits creek (I called the Atlanta Campaign "The Battle of Shits Creek" in a class I took with Eliot Cohen...he was not amused but I still got an A-), and Atlanta was THE MOST IMPORTANT city in the South at that point, they HAD to defend and thus, their hand was pretty much forced.
James is right about the prior history of war having examples of complete destruction and mayhem employed but the American civil war marked a turning point in the Political nature and manifestation of war aims coupled with Technological advances. It was a lot more than just artillery and subs: Repeating Rifles, Grenades, Mines, Air reconaissance, Railroads, and the INTENTIONAL, systematic destruction of civilian property on a vast scale for the sole purpose, not to capture and use the other guy's shit, but to just flat out break their will and enforce your own political will, it was groundbreaking.
Really though, as deadly as the Civil War was, only one out of 8 casualties was from actual battle trauma. Disease and hunger killed far more soldiers than anything else...they all basically shit themselves to death with dysentary...medicine was still WAY behind the curve. The tales of the camps and hospitals are far more grisly than the battles, imho.
"The Bonnie Blue Flag" is one of Da Burglar's favourite ditties...
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