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#120133 - 09/23/05 09:11 AM South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Phlogiston Offline
Human Garbage

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
Link

Quote:


South Africa has for the first time moved to seize land from a white commercial farmer, saying that negotiations to buy the property to hand over to black claimants were taking too long.


Commissioner Blessing Mphela on Thursday told a news conference at the Commission on the Restitution of Land Rights that the seizure was a last resort. South Africa must speed up land reform or face chaos, Mphela added.


Congress Mahlangu, a spokesman for Mphela, told The Associated Press it was the first time the commission had resorted to the expropriation process.


The commission was set up to restore land lost by black and mixed-race South Africans under apartheid.


Previously, South Africa maintained a willing seller, willing buyer approach to land reform, but the government accuses some white farmers of asking too much and dragging out sales. Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka indicated in July the government was considering getting tougher.


Mphela, who is in charge of land restitution cases in North West Province, said the government would issue an expropriation order for a 500-hectare (1,235-acre) farm owned by Hannes Visser. The government has offered 1.75 million rands (about $276,000) and Visser has asked for 3 million (about $473,000).


Visser told the South African Press Association he would challenge the order.


"I do not recognize the claim on my land and cannot be forced to sell at the government's price," Visser told SAPA.


Mahlangu said Visser would receive the expropriation order within a week. Mphela said Visser would have a month after receiving the order to show cause to the minister of agriculture why his farm should not be seized. If the minister upholds the order, Visser can appeal in the courts.


Visser said he had made improvements worth 3.5 million rands (about $552,000) worth of improvements to the farm his father bought in 1968.


He said the government offer was not enough to set up a business comparable to the farm. Mphela said the government offered to exempt areas with improvements but the compromise was rejected.


Overcoming apartheid


The deputy president said last July that the government wants all land restitution claims settled within the next three years. The government, she said, seeks to deliver 30 percent of the country's agricultural land to people disadvantaged by apartheid by 2014. If necessary, she said it would revise the current willing buyer, willing seller principle.


South African officials have repeatedly said they do not plan to emulate Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe's seizure of white-owned farms, which many say contributed to the collapse of that country's farm-based economy.


But Mugabe's policies have made him hugely popular among black South Africans, while land reform here appears stalled.


When the democratic government came to power in South Africa in 1994, some 87 percent of agricultural land was owned by whites, who account for 10 percent of the population. This has fallen to 80 percent, according to some estimates.


In the North West case, Commissioner Mphela said, the Visser farm was initially part of four plots owned by the Molamu family, which was forced to sell under the apartheid government's policies of systematically stripping blacks of land and moving them into townships and so-called homelands. Descendants of the first Molamu owners filed a claim seeking restitution.


"Two-thirds of the country, including most of the best quality land, remains in the hands of less than 60,000 people who unfortunately in this case are white farmers, while 14 million blacks or Africans eke out a precarious existence in the former homelands and urban informal settlements," Mphela said.


"In South Africa, where dispossession of African people was much more brutal and thorough than any other in the region, the fruits of liberation have yet to be tasted by the majority of the rural population," Mphela said.




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#120134 - 09/23/05 01:41 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Grant_Michaels Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 277
Loc: LA
Thanks for bringing this up. I can talk first hand about land seizure in Africa since i lived it in Zimbabwe under Mugabe!

It really saddens me to see South Africa following in the footsteps of the tyrant Mugabe in neighboring Zimbabwe. For those not in the know Zimbabwe was formally called Rhodesia and was called the "breadbasket of Africa". Our currency was stronger than the US dollar!

In 1980 Robert Mugabe was voted in and ironically President Jimmy Carter had a lot to do with getting him into power. We fast forward to today and Mugabe is a fascist Dictator that has ruined the economy, purposely starved his own people (food is the political tool of choice in Africa) and run every white person out of the country! There is no food, fuel, or water supply and impressive hotels, hospitals and schools stand derelict and empty. It's truly heartbreaking. Yet Mugabe continues to rig "elections" and has been in power 25 years?? He's another Idi Amin ...or Sese Seko!!!

I was born in Zimbabwe, as were my parents and even granparents. That makes me 3rd generation African ....even if i am white! Yet my family was kicked out by Mugabe's government and the world watches and says nothing?

My parents were forced to leave everything behind in Zimbabawe and moved to South Africa to start with nothing in their 60's!!! They have struggled in South Africa to make ends meet on a little farm and I have to wire them money every month! Now the South African government plans to take farms away from the white farmers and follow Mugabe's self-destruction idea's???

Why does the Western world allow this blatant desecration of Human Rights in Southern Africa?
_________________________
"A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." -Mae West

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#120135 - 09/23/05 03:03 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
drive Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 205
Now I understand why you were marketing this post. What's so fucked up about this is that it's not just the governments direct policies that screw their people over. But, then more wealthy nations don't want to give them aid, because they figure it won't get down to the people but just be squandered byt the governments. Getting the money to the people when you can't just give it to the government is way more fucked up and harder. This is the whole controversy with the Bush millenium plan (I think it's called) to offer aid to poverty stricken nations. The critics claim it's just to hard to get the aid. The proponents say that you've got to make sure the money goes to the people somehow.

Wasn't it the Ugandan president that was such a crook when his country got $90 million in aid and the first thing he did was go by himself a new jet? I think it was Uganda. You have to topple the government to help the people in that country.

Makes you hope there is a god so that some kind of ultimate punishment is metted out. Thus explaining the rival millitias and political unrest in these parts of the world.

Hope to have time to read more about Zimbabwe. Of course government performance matters in the day-to-day life of it's citizens, but taking a country from having a currency stronger than the dollar to ruin is a task worthy of awe.

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#120136 - 09/23/05 03:36 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
zenman Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 8160
Loc: Roma, Repubblica Italiana
Quote:




I was born in Zimbabwe



So that would make you African-American.
_________________________
"All my years in p*rn didn't quite prepare me for childbirth. I mistakenly thought all the stretching I did would make this easier."

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#120137 - 09/23/05 03:52 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Grant_Michaels Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 277
Loc: LA
Drive, thank you for your thoughts. It really is mind-blowing what is happening in Africa! The leader that ruined Uganda was Idi Amin and he reportedly killed millions in his ethnic cleaning programs! His genocide was on the level of Hitler or Stalin .....yet the world hears and knows little of Idi Amin ....or the other dozen or so African leaders like them.

Yes Zen!!! I truly am an Afro-American but in the PC-driven society that America has become it seems that my Afro-American label truly annoys the black people that I tell it too?
_________________________
"A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." -Mae West

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#120138 - 09/23/05 04:44 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Phlogiston Offline
Human Garbage

Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1594
Loc: The "Phlogbox", apparently.
Quote:


In 1980 Robert Mugabe was voted in and ironically President Jimmy Carter had a lot to do with getting him into power.




No, it isn't ironic Jimmy Carter helped him into power. Jimmy Carter has a knack for such foolishness.


Is it any wonder the U.S. Navy dubbed it's new submarine the USS Jimmy Carter? A ship designed to sink is wonderfully symbolic of Carter's presidency.

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#120139 - 09/23/05 05:38 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
Man, don't get me started on this. These idiots take the land from the rightful owners ( that's right I said rightful owners- and if you don't believe it then you better start signing over your house to Monstar this minute) who were farming it to provide food for the country and the continent as a whole. Just as with Mugabe- years from now if the people who take over the farm don't work it correctly or at all- people will starve and then these asshole leaders and the people who loved the idea before they became hungry will complain that the world ignores them.
_________________________
"Some say I'm lazy and others say that is just me. Some say I'm crazy, I guess I'll always be"

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#120140 - 09/23/05 05:45 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Grant_Michaels Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 277
Loc: LA
Quote:

Quote:




I was born in Zimbabwe



So that would make you African-American.




It surely qualifies me as an Afro-American. BUT .....does it entitle me to call other Afro-Americans in this country "Myyyyyy NIGGA!".....????

Since only black people can use this term on each other and any whitey (like me) that uses it is committing the unforgivable American sin .....then where does that leave me??????

I wish some black folk would speak on this?
_________________________
"A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." -Mae West

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#120141 - 09/23/05 05:48 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Grant_Michaels Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 277
Loc: LA
Great post, Cleetus....and 110% correct in what you said.

Why don't the local black people in Africa get this? And why does the rest of the world not give a flying fuck?
_________________________
"A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." -Mae West

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#120142 - 09/23/05 05:52 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
It is the nature of the world now Grant- you can only raise a fury in certain cases, this doesn't fit the criteria. On a side note I am actively seeking reperations from all Italians because the romans enslaved my Limey brethern 1000 or so years ago. Pay me bitches Except you mafia people- you frighten me
_________________________
"Some say I'm lazy and others say that is just me. Some say I'm crazy, I guess I'll always be"

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#120143 - 09/23/05 06:00 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Cleetus VanDamme Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 7888
Loc: Carpathian Mountains
On a serious note though- Grant is totally correct in wondering why the world fiddles as africa burns. Between the muslim atrocities in the north, the dictators throughout and the disease and lack of forethought that the continent is rife with I wonder why the media doesn't give it a more honest and in depth look.


People seem to like to place the blame wholly with colonialism with regard to the problems in Africa- that is a cop out. That may have caused many of the problems years ago but the continent has had numerous problems long before and certainly after the last colonial power pulled out. I don't count France because well they are france. The corruption and short sightedness of the leaders of africa must be addressed before any progress can be made. Throwing food , money and medicine at the symptoms alone will accomplish nothing in the long run. It is a necessary first step but the underlying problems must be dealt with from within before aid from without will do any lasting good.
_________________________
"Some say I'm lazy and others say that is just me. Some say I'm crazy, I guess I'll always be"

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#120144 - 09/24/05 02:29 AM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
JRV Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/03/03
Posts: 5849
Loc: TX, USA
It's my understanding that South Africa is talking about an American-style Taking, i.e., with full compensation for the landowner at fair market value. They are not talking about Mugabe-style thuggery. Whether or not they can really afford it is unclear, but they seem to realize that Mugabe has ruined his country with his tactics.

It would probably pass constitutional tests in the US if I'm reading the article correctly.
_________________________
"If they can't picture me with a knife, forcing them to strip in an alley, I don't want any part of it. It's humiliating." - windsock

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#120145 - 09/24/05 08:47 AM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Evil Klown Offline
Gay For Pay

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 1024
Quote:

On a serious note though- Grant is totally correct in wondering why the world fiddles as africa burns. Between the muslim atrocities in the north, the dictators throughout and the disease and lack of forethought that the continent is rife with I wonder why the media doesn't give it a more honest and in depth look.


People seem to like to place the blame wholly with colonialism with regard to the problems in Africa- that is a cop out. That may have caused many of the problems years ago but the continent has had numerous problems long before and certainly after the last colonial power pulled out. I don't count France because well they are france. The corruption and short sightedness of the leaders of africa must be addressed before any progress can be made. Throwing food , money and medicine at the symptoms alone will accomplish nothing in the long run. It is a necessary first step but the underlying problems must be dealt with from within before aid from without will do any lasting good.




Cleetus,

Those fucken Kommies! Which countries dumped bazillions of Klashnikovs throughout the "spear chuckin nations" over the decades??? Bush torqued my knob when he pledged $500 million of the sheeples' dinero to fight AIDS in Africa. To hell with that shi'it, let Social Darwinism thrive




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#120146 - 09/24/05 12:05 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
John Floofin Offline
Porn Icon

Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
Quote:

The corruption and short sightedness of the leaders of africa must be addressed before any progress can be made. Throwing food , money and medicine at the symptoms alone will accomplish nothing in the long run.



Quote:


Cleetus,

Those fucken Kommies! Which countries dumped bazillions of Klashnikovs throughout the "spear chuckin nations" over the decades??? Bush torqued my knob when he pledged $500 million of the sheeples' dinero to fight AIDS in Africa. To hell with that shi'it, let Social Darwinism thrive





It has been said that "Only Africans can save Africa". I consider myself a peaceful and humane type of guy, but I have to admit that my thinking on the continent often pendulates between "Save the Children" and Klown's "Social Darwinism" and I'm not sure that anything about Africa could resolve this internal contradiction for myself or the rest of the First World. Suffice to say, I won't be vacationing on the Dark Continent anytime soon.

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#120147 - 09/24/05 05:43 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
drive Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 205
Quote:


It has been said that "Only Africans can save Africa". I consider myself a peaceful and humane type of guy, but I have to admit that my thinking on the continent often pendulates between "Save the Children" and Klown's "Social Darwinism" and I'm not sure that anything about Africa could resolve this internal contradiction for myself or the rest of the First World. Suffice to say, I won't be vacationing on the Dark Continent anytime soon.


I'd be happy to participate in saving them if I saw something or somebody that I thought could save them. But, of course that would all have to be built around something that had its core inside Africa.

According to Grant's post Zimbabwe at one time was a good place to live. So, there's got to be something valuable there even if one moron has managed to obtain power and destroy everything. I think it's just easier to destroy something than to create it.

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#120148 - 09/24/05 06:59 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
John Floofin Offline
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Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
Quote:

I think it's just easier to destroy something than to create it.




If there ever was a bottom line for Africa, you just nailed it.

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#120149 - 09/24/05 08:09 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
drive Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 205
You realize that before Klown gets back in here, you now have to clarify if you think I meant Africa should be destroyed. Or, if you think I meant that the destruction in Africa doesn't mean there's nothing valuable there.

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#120150 - 09/24/05 08:13 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
John Floofin Offline
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Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
I only meant to say that Africa has been far better at destroying than creating within its borders, as far as governments, lives, industries, and humanity are concerned.

Fuck, this is depressing shit.


Edited by John Floofin (09/24/05 08:14 PM)

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#120151 - 09/25/05 08:08 AM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
When I was in Johannesburg ( end of 98 thru beginning of 99) I talked to several people who were already having this happen. The black people were intimidating white farmers off their land and the police were turning a blind eye to the whole thing. I heard of stories of the farmers children being targeted as well. Just an awful situation all around.

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#120152 - 09/25/05 11:24 AM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
cumalloverher Offline
Chronic Masturbator

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 1704
Loc: *quah quah quah quah*
I don't give a shit.



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Quah.

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#120153 - 09/25/05 11:30 AM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
have2cit Offline
Porn Jesus

Registered: 08/09/06
Posts: 9113
Loc: red dirt state of mind
About white South African farmers or just life in general?

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#120154 - 09/28/05 02:57 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Nosey Offline
Rob Black's Crack Pipe

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Florida
hey grant .. i'm a bit late to add to this but oh well. I agree that is sad that white farmers are being kicked out.. yeah the land may have been taken wrongly but there has to be a limit on when you can reclaim usurped land. Like how most crimes have a statute of limitations.

I believe that Its far too late to start taking this land away.. maybe the leader of south Africa was inspired by the exodus of Israelis from Gaza. but Israel had only been in control of Gaza for something like 33 years.

and what's the government going to do with the reclaimed lan d ? just give it away to the public ? i highly doubt that. This is Racial discrimination at its finest.

Also i'm not a big fan of the Term "African American". Id get so annoyed with filling out forms in America. I may be black but im not fucking African !! also im not American.. lol when i describe myself i ALWAYS put "other".

i dont understand why they cant put black, or negro ( i guess negro sounds too much like nigger). I have no idea why american blacks need to identify themselves with africa soo badly. Despite all the talk and the profiling, Ive never met a SINGLE black american that would willingly give up his american rights and freedom and move back to Africa.

Ah well these are just the views of a non american black male.

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#120155 - 09/28/05 03:15 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
John Floofin Offline
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Registered: 02/04/05
Posts: 3499
Loc: The Dirty: 480
Glad to hear you check in on the subject Nosey, your perspective is important, to me anyway. By the way, you back on the island now?
For the rest of us in here, where the heck is Sembene to answer for his continent's foibles?

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#120156 - 09/28/05 03:42 PM Re: South Africa to sieze first White-owned farm
Grant_Michaels Offline
Max Hardcore Prison Bitch

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 277
Loc: LA
Nosey,

Thanks for your sentiments! You sound like an open-minded and intelligent young guy!

It saddens me deeply what is going on in Africa and EVERY ethnic group ends up suffering greatly .....not just the initial whiteys that were kicked out. The lack of fuel, food and water could cause catastrophic starvation in a region once very self-sufficient.

One other minor thing .....not all the land in Africa was "wrongly" taken by white settlers. Yes, some of it was, but much of the farmland was fairly traded for cash, cattle, etc as in the case of my great grandparents. We still have the title deeds to prove it. It was an honest business transaction ....but Mugabe does not care about that.

Respect, Grant.
PS -- how are things going in the adult biz?
_________________________
"A man can be short and dumpy and getting bald but if he has fire, women will like him." -Mae West

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