Thurs. Step Meeting

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/22/09 06:32 PM

It is still cold and sloppy here, we only had 11 people at the meeting. Doris H. celebrated 21 years of sobriety.

Step Four - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

All 11 of us have done a fourth step. It was mentioned how important it is to attend meetings and hear others share about this step, to see that many others have gone through with this. To some, it seems like an initiation, the big hurdle to get over to get into the club. Truly, it is, it is time to get serious or get drunk.

People shared about how things had happened to them in childhood, and they had a hard time figuring out their part in it. Their part was carrying the events into their lives 30 years later, letting these things consume them. The women in the meeting shared about shame, how shame will get you drunk, and how the process of inventory and sharing with someone else helps to get rid of shame.

Dave shared about how it was feeling like shit about himself that kept him drinking. We must take an honest look at where we've been, and who we are, to cut some of these mountains down to mole hills. Once we take stock, and clear the air about sometimes embarrassing or tragic events, we begin to see how we can build a good, sober life.

A worksheet thing from a Dallas workshop was passed around, to much amusement, and a couple members told about all the 4th step guides that seem to abound. General feeling is that these get in the way more than they help. In general, our first fourth steps tended to be autobiographical, and subsequent inventories focused more on specific current areas.

It was pointed out that the hardest part is starting, once you take pen to paper, it starts to flow and get easier. I shared about how I could only write for about an hour at a sitting, and making an appointment to do step five forces us to wrap thing up.

Honesty is the big thing here. It is time to get honest with ourselves, to take a hard look at what we have done and become, and get a vision of a way forward. When I hit upon my biggest resentment, my evil stepmother, I had enough faith to realize this process would grant me freedom, I didn't need to drink over her anymore. Later, I would gain additional freedom from childhood issues, as I peeled the onion of self-awareness. This is the beginning of a process that really works.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: RenfieldGyps

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/22/09 08:14 PM

STEP 4 IS A MOTHERFUCKER!! I love the meetings in my area and my homegroup. I made coffee, I set up, cleaned up, did it all. I even made it to secretary after having only 3 months clean and the requirement was 6 months clean, but they liked me and had faith in me. I counted the days, read the pamphlets, gave hugs and all, everytime I relapsed they never turned their backs on me, never made me feel bad. I truly love those folks. And when it was on St. Marks Place, I practically lived in there when I first came out of rehab, I was scared to go anywhere else for fear of using, so I stayed there and they had meetings 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
I like step meetings, but prefer open discussion and speaker meetings. Ive made a few womens only ones and didnt care for that, it was about being abused and I couldnt relate, I havent been in those types of relationshits. I related w/some feelings of pain and using but it wasnt for me. I have all the books, but I havent written anything in the Step Working Guide book.
Good for you for staying clean all those years, I know its a very hard thing to do and I admire anyone who has done it.
Congrats!!
I seriously mean that, congratulations to you.

I read my NA book all the time and my Just for Today everyday faithfully.

Actually my first meeting, when I introduced myself, 5 people bought me a book without speaking to each other first, so I left my first meeting w/my key ring and 5 NA books.....I cherish them.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/23/09 06:17 PM

Well, it's one day at a time. This is about our lives, not some silly contest to see who can stay dry longest.

I got sober. That's the trip I'm on, sobriety. I've built a new, sober life that is much better than what I had before. No pot, etc. as I saw in another thread. I am being restored to sanity.

Meetings are fellowship, working the steps with a sponsor is recovery. We talk about recovery in meetings, recovery takes place in our lives outside the rooms.

Maybe, take a hard look at the previous step. When a step seems insurmountable, often re-visiting the previous step will help a great deal. I could not face myself with the tool of inventory, until I had the confidence of Step Three, a higher power and a belief in the process of recovery.

I will never regret the initial investment of time and effort I put into my recovery. After a year sober and working the steps, things get really easier and life gets a lot better. I started working on life, instead of the inside workings of Chuck. And early seeds like financial and health and employment and relationship mending started to bloom.

Take the plunge, the water's fine. Good luck, thanks for sharing, and keep comin' back.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: tattypatty

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/23/09 06:26 PM

My buddy gets out of rehab wednesday.

"It's all gonna be different, this time, Patty..."

We'll see.....

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/23/09 06:31 PM

One thing I learned when I used to go to the prison meeting - it is very important to get him to a meeting the day he gets out.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: RenfieldGyps

Re: Thurs. Step 4 Meeting - 01/23/09 07:15 PM

Thanks Charin, I know the first year is very hard, that's what alot of old times have said, I have to be honest and say Ive never made it that long, the longest Ive stayed completely clean, no pot, no pills to help me sleep, nothing, was 9 months, then I picked up thinking I could do it right this time....yeah right, like no ones ever thought of that one.
I keep coming back, and I try. Ive only done up to 4 and stopped because it was really really deep and my mind wasnt there yet I guess. Its never too late, so like I said, I keep trying.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step 5 Meeting - 01/29/09 06:34 PM

Twelve hearty alcoholics braved the Ohio winter storm's aftermath to attend our meeting tonight. The meeting was touched by the news that Tommy M., who had a heart attack a couple weeks ago, had died earlier this week. He was a colorful character who had 27 years sober when he died. He will be missed my many. Also, my good friend John C. celebrated 29 years of continuous sobriety. John was my sponsor's sponsor for many years, and we were both in a special Army intelligence command.

Step five - Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

All of us at the meeting had done this step. Dave spoke first and hit the nail on the head, as he usually does, by describing the shame he felt, and how this step let him get rid of a lot of that. His sponsor told him to just do the step, write the stuff down and share it, and the healing would happen. Many of us said we learned in this step that we were just drunks, sharing with a trusted recovering sponsor helps, and often the sponsor can share part of their story to put things into perspective.

I grew up in VFW clubs with my dad, watching the old vets slowly drink themselves to death. There is something romantic about that, and something pulling me to drink over certain parts of my past. The process of inventory, and taking a look with God and myself, and verbalizing these things with Hank, voided the power of these memories to make me want to drink. It was after this step that the compulsion to drink was greatly diminished.

We carry the principle of step five with us, John spoke about how wonderful it is that we do this for each other, that among our fellowship it is expected that we will lend a patient ear, and give honest, considered feedback. This is how we deal with the problems life hands us, this is the basics of Alcoholics Anonymous, one alcoholic sharing with another.

It was pointed out by many that this is the step that made us feel a part of AA. We wanted this thing with, literally, the desperation of the doomed, and this gave us the feeling that we were going to make it. It was also shared by many that they took and hour or so break, as suggested in the Big Book, and then began to look towards step six.

The two women in the meeting both shared about finding someone to trust. As a man, I see the fear of being judged as the obstacle, and eventually I figured the idea of one drunk judging another was silly. But I agree with Hank, if you don't trust your sponsor to hear your fifth step, you have the wrong sponsor. It was discussed that other avenues are available, but in the Dayton community and Ohio in general, we share with sponsors. Clergy and others can help, and in parts of Canada a priest is the usual recipient. It is an honor to be chosen to hear a fifth step.

Bottom line, do it or drink, for almost all of us. And we all did this, and came out the other end better for it.

Next week, Tradition Two.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: John Floofin

Re: Thurs. Step 5 Meeting - 01/29/09 08:49 PM

Fight the good fight, Charin!

Posted by: freestylah

Re: Thurs. Step 5 Meeting - 01/30/09 11:19 AM

"Bottom line, do it or drink, for almost all of us. And we all did this, and came out the other end better for it."

I like this part; underestimated by many, done by a few. Keep it up, Chuck.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Tradition 2 Meeting - 02/05/09 07:00 PM

There were 19 alcoholics at the meeting tonight, including a visitor from New Jersey. Ken S., a former longtime regular who moved north 30 miles or so, showed up and got a 25 year token. We held a business meeting after the meeting, and elected Gary to be Intergroup Representative, as Bob has cancer and the chemo keeps him from fulfilling the role. We have a treat every first Thursday, tonight Tom brought homemade chocolate chip cookies, and lots of 'em.

Tradition Two - For our group purpose, there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern.

The long form of Tradition Two - For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. (This long form is shorter than the short form)

Our Group had a big controversy 20 years ago, about 2 years before I showed up. This led to the Group discussing a tradition every month, and we enjoy this. We also feel it has made our Group stronger. The Group has a heavy emphasis on service work, both locally and at the General Service level. All the AA traditions are based on spiritual principles, and drilling down to these concerns give a fresh look at group interactions, and points out spiritual practices AAs can apply to their own lives. These traditions meetings are not as dry and boring as one might think.

Our Second Tradition protects against having a strong leader decide group matters. It forces us to act together, to use our combined knowledge and experience to resolve issues and establish levels of service that allow us to survive. These "officers" have no real authority, we just collect the money, pay the bills, make the coffee, chair the meetings, and go to the Area assemblies and Intergroup meetings. At the General Service level, our delegates to the General Service Conference carry the Area's conscience to AA at the national and worldwide level. The Group is on the top of the hierarchy, the members have the final say.

The group dynamics work out this way, this is the way alcoholics act. Several of our traditions are that way, the way it just must be. Our Group is blessed with an abundance of elder statesmen, experienced members who are calm in the "crisis" and offer advise, but do not try to exercise authority. This example of humility and stability is the solid leadership we really have.

The second tradition has the phrase, "a loving God." This was mentioned a few times as a reminder that God does love us. One member said he abandoned the "Terrorist God" he had coming into AA, and accepted the loving God of the 2nd Tradition. It was also discussed how this applies to us individually, that since I have decided to live on an altruistic level, my judgments should be guided by my conscience, prayer and the advise of experienced AAs and others I trust. It was also mentioned how, as Bill describes in the 12x12, sometimes we individually think we hear the "voice of God" when we are really in need of hearing the voice of reason from our fellow AAs. We must step out of the isolation and allow others to help us.

There was a lot of discussion about the two 12x12 terms for oldtimers, elder statesmen and bleeding deacons. Most long time members shared some moments of being a bleeding deacon, but we all know they are now our beloved elder statesmen. Several laughs were had. Robert shared about how a meeting at a halfway house forced him to be both - he had to stand up to the group and tell them they needed to take over, he would be a faithful member, but the Group needed to step up and run things, he wouldn't do it all. The Group responded after some frazzled moments, and is now humming along.

Rotation was mentioned as an important part of keeping this tradition fluid. Rotating these service positions ensures no "empire building" takes place.

I've seen several controversies rise and be handled by Groups, or our Intergroup, letting everyone have their say, their vote, and resolutions made in the spirit of loving tolerance. It was pointed out that elder statesmen do not get excited about these controversies, but have the faith that our loving God will work this out through the Group conscience. I've also learned to make sure I think before I act, and realize I can benefit greatly from the advise and concerns of others.

Next week, Step Six. Keep comin' back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Tradition 2 Meeting - 02/05/09 07:22 PM

What happpens if you don't believe in god Charin?
How many steps do you get if you're Tom Cruise?
I'm not taking a shot at you because I'm hella proud of you and someday we'll talk baseball, and bikes.
Serious answer though because sometimes I ease up on the slow lane types with "One Day At A Time" stickers on the back. I need to feel the "atta boy" for not running them off the road. Fill me in on the left lane sped right off.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Tradition 2 Meeting - 02/05/09 07:33 PM

There used to be AA/NA meetings for atheists but they were a pain in the ass to get to usually. Churches love to host and sponsor those meetings to take advantage of desperate, addictive people and get them hooked on god to increase their weekly take. The atheist meetings are usually held way less often and in locations that are off the beaten path so they are hard to attend for most people, at least that was my experience when looking into them way back in the day. I suppose YMMV depending on your location.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Tradition 2 Meeting - 02/05/09 07:34 PM

Tommy M., who just died sober with 27 years, was an athiest. Ed, sitting next to me tonight, has 17 years, and is atheist. Some substitute AA as a whole, the Group, Good Orderly Direction, Group Of Drunks, or spiritual principles in general as a natural way of the world, nature, whatever. As an atheist friend Mike says, "But you better pick something you believe can help you stay sober." It works, if you work it.

I drive like my hair is on fire, so no bumper stickers here. Some folks get too much serenity.

Fiend, we have clubhouses here with meetings a few times a day, no connection with churches. There are club AAs, and church basement AAs like Tommy, Ed, Mike and me. I can't think of any AAs who joined a church because there is a meeting there.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Six Meeting - 02/12/09 06:41 PM

It is a nice night here in Dayton, I rode the motorcycle to the meeting. There were 12 alcoholics tonight, not including George, who stopped by before going to the Intergroup business meeting. Several of our members go to the Intergroup meeting, so attendance is a bit thin the second Thursday of each month. We had two visitors, and one, Ted, got a 3 month token. We only went 50 minutes tonight, as the crowd was thin. One of our senior members, Bob P., is moving to assisted living under Hospice, he is dying from the same kind of cancer that took my dad. Bob sounded upbeat on the phone, and we will visit him periodically.

Step Six - Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

Understand most of the people tonight have a lot of sobriety, so we explored this initially nebulous step from the point of view of sharing what has worked in the long haul. The attached file may give a better view of 6 from someone starting out. Tom opened the meeting and discussed how he believes God will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. I don't totally subscribe to this, but for Tom, it's working well. He says the step is a call to action, to work on strengthening character. I think Tom uses the program as a Higher Power in this case, and reduces defects by following the spiritual path of A.A.

Several of us said we realized we cannot do this alone. Hank shared about how he first tried to guide the process, to choose which defects to work on, which to keep, etc. That does not work. Our Higher Power, or life if you will, has a way of directing which problems need attention. After a few years of trying to beat ourselves pure, we discovered we needed to cool it a bit, to be willing to let things take their natural course. We learn we do not need to seek out problems, they will appear in time. We also realized we would not become perfect, or anywhere near, even though perfection is the unachievable goal.

Hank said this is one day at a time for him, and he does this as part of his morning program. He shared about the frustration of trying to find a better way, a deeper insight into the steps. And he sought out oldtimers, changed sponsers, and still kept hearing the same answers. Ah, it isn't a battle, it is life.

I spoke of how these are the things that will get us drunk. I used to set myself up for emotional turmoil, so I could have a reason to drink, so I could drink guilt free. I wanted a reason. I'd piss you off, and make you give me a reason. Or a myriad of other behaviors, and I needed to get these habits of 15 years tamped down if I was to stay sober. But after 18 years sober, I have found out how much I can get away with. This is another challenge, to keep myself moving forward, to keep the cycle of sloth, guilt, sloth, fear, etc. from becoming a giant snowball rolling downhill. In some ways, I have learned about myself through my failings, and accepted my humanity.

I always share about 6 and 7 that I know what my fellow A.A.s were like before because I've heard their stories, and I know them as wonderful, dependable people today, so these steps do work. And I ain't the assshole I used to be.

John paraphrased a saying he heard that we alcoholics are like other people, only more so. I love it! Yes, we get on emotional benders, when it would be reasonable to be this angry, we get t h i s a n g r y. He shared about how he knows everything, and was so glad when the election was over, because it was driving him to anger. He was dismayed when he discovered politics goes on. John is big into serenity, and he is called to this step when something messes with his serenity. He strives to be "right sized".

I had mentioned how it was sometimes difficult to delineate which is depression, and what is a character defect. Another member shared about her eating disorder, and how it is probably both, but it doesn't matter, she knows what actions she needs to take. Well, I heard what I needed tonight!

Our other member in attendance tonight with 30+ years shared that she gets frustrated when she finds herself going backwards. To hear these long timers express occasional struggles with 6 and 7 lets me know that this is just life, and that's what she shared about, that she will never be non-human and perfect, but she can be a good person today. That's what it's all about.

We approach this from a fairly generic position, allowing those with faith in the metaphysical, or those who do not believe in a Diety, to gain insight and grow. And, stay sober. John hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the old A.A. truism that if you sober up a horse thief, all you have is a sober horse thief, who will eventually drink again. Step Six means more than that now, but that is surely a good beginning.

FYI, no one mentioned them, but some folks look at the seven deadly sins. They are: Lust, envy, gluttony, sloth, greed, anger and pride. I don't find much use for the list, as the root of a lot of my trouble is fear and ego, and loss of control.

Next week, Step Seven - Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. Keep comin' back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Six Meeting - 02/12/09 07:12 PM

Bet ya'll never knew how complicated it is, being a drunk.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Six Meeting - 02/12/09 07:32 PM

You need to tell your group about xxxporntalk. We're here to listen. And to help.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Six Meeting - 02/12/09 07:55 PM

When I hosted the poker game, I showed some of them the Ashley Blue Gag Factor 15 scene, where she plays a soldier being throat fucked by a bunch of Arabs. It was met with lukewarm response. Next time, I'll put an Overstuffed on a loop, unless they insist on watching a ball game.

Tommy was a self-described pervert, but he was gay and died. Bill, but he's 60. Shit, I can't think of anyone to send here.

There used to be some seriously nice women, but now just older ones, unless a visitor shows up.

I remember Lou trying to convince me to drink one night. Ha!

Know how I sponsor people? They call, I listen for 5 minutes, then I roll the dice and whatever comes up on them, I tell him to work that step on his problem. They think I'm a fuckin' guru.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Seven Meeting - 02/19/09 06:43 PM

Free, it's a joke! I'll tell another one later.

It was cold again in Dayton, and at least two regulars had other things they could not get out of, so we only had 12 alcoholics at the meeting. We passed around a card for Bob P. Sudie came with her new baby, and got a 1 year token. Claudia celebrated 9 years sobriety. We had a short group conscience meeting afterwards, and decided to add a moment of silence before we end with the Responsibility Statement, and we decided to limit our Group's 31 year celebration to a simple cake.

Step Seven - Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

We discussed several aspects of humility and how we have grown because of the awareness and growth we have enjoyed. The Chairperson spoke of how this step helps at work, something I can relate to. There are times, several agreed, when we need to be assertive. There are other times we need to defer to others. Perhaps most difficult for several of us, there are times when we should remain silent.

It was discussed how as children some of us were told we were not good enough, and some were told they could do anything. Restraining the two extremes is a big part of humility. This is also a big part of removing our shortcomings. We are not going to become perfect, we are not abhorrently warped, we are simply people trying to be better. Trying to get along with others.

The end aim of all of this is, to lead life on an altruistic plane. To strive to be good people, to accept what serendipitous results we may enjoy, but to be driven to help others and do the will of our Higher Power. It is in this spirit we ask, that our shortcomings may be removed, in part, for as long as needed, for us to do good works. Not for our own comfort, although it works out that way. But this is a point of spiritual perfection we aim for, but never really achieve.

A point of spiritual willingness and humility I will never reach again, was a short prayer I said at 4 days sober. The attached file says more about this. I asked for help without restraints, I was desperate and ready to do what I needed to do and accept any outcome, if God would help me make it in AA. I doubt I will ever have that level of humility again.

We had a few laughs, Hank saying it took 3 people to replace him after he retired, me telling how the motorcycle is helping give me humility. Also, banging yourself in the head over character defects, and trying to bull my way through Step 6, gave me a little humility.

And we must accept our continued shortcomings as part of this humility. Anger, frustration, and self condemnation will not help. We must be grateful for the progress that we have made. I know I had gone a long way by the time I got to Step 7.

How does one know when to go to the next step? We know this is a lifelong striving, it is not like 4 and 5, where we knew when we were done. Well, sponsorship helps here. Once I had overcome any of my grosser handicaps, and got a decent feel for the lifelong striving to improve in other areas, I was ready to start writing my list for 8.

I hope the next time (probably at work) when I start to be the problem, I can go to this step and see if we can subdue my shortcoming(s) for so long as needed.

Next week - Step Eight. Keep comin' back.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

And I want to add this additional postscript, not on edit. There were two alcoholics with over 30 years of sobriety at the meeting. One passed without talking, the other left before the business meeting, saying whatever the Group decided was fine. So, more lessons in humility.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Seven Meeting - 02/19/09 06:59 PM

One day I was hanging out at the library killing time before the meeting. On the way to the car, a wino hit me up for a dollar. I told him I'd buy him a bottle, if he went to the AA meeting with me (I was new). He said OK, and away we went to the meeting. I was feeling pretty smug, as the meeting was about Step 12, helping other alcoholics.

Well, after the meeting I was driving the wino back to the library, and he asked for the bottle. Conversation went like this:
Me - "You are just using me to get drunk."
Wino - "Well, you are just using me to stay sober."
Me - "Where the hell did you learn that?"
Wino - "At that Goddamn meeting, wern't you paying attention?"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: tattypatty

Re: Thurs. Step Seven Meeting - 02/19/09 07:15 PM

^^^^That's going in the script, Chuck. If it sells, I'll shoot you a few bucks...

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Eight Meeting - 02/26/09 06:44 PM

There were 14 alcoholics at tonight's meeting, including a relative newcomer and an experienced AA from Dallas, Texas.

Step Eight - Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

This was the easiest step for me. I was fortunate in several ways. One, this did not scare me when I first came to AA. I was on the one day at a time regimen, and I didn't look this far ahead. I figured things would take care of themselves in time, or I could deal with it or not. I didn't have any terribly difficult amends on my list either, so fear was not a big factor for me. But my experiences are shared in the attached file, as well as a couple controversial opinions. This space is for the group.

A few members echoed Bill W.'s 12 x 12 (the AA book, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions") by saying forgiveness is at the heart of this step. Not them forgiving us, but us looking past harms done to us, to get to the place where we honestly want to right the wrongs we have done. The nature of harm was also discussed. The 12 x 12 was quoted, the part where Bill describes harm is very broad. We gave several examples of things that we put on our lists, but our sponsors said no amends were needed. In my case it was not keeping up with old friends, my sponsor asked if they had kept up with me. Well, obviously, no. Duh.

Any discussion of 8 and/or 9 must include the disclaimer that this is a sponsorship step! I, and my group, stress this. Newcomers often tangle a much more painful web when they go out early, on their own, and try to make amends. Doing this in an appropriate time and manner is something that requires the preparation of the previous steps and an experienced guide!

Two members, including the new lady, were currently working on their first fourth step, and passed. I am sure they benefited from our discussion, the new lady more than Bill, who nodded out. But, that's OK, see next week's topic.

The only discussion of the mechanics of this thing, which I find important, was 4 or 5 people saying they followed the vague Big Book (the book titled, "Alcoholics Anonymous") line that amends could be classified as ones we are ready to make, ones that will take a little preparation, and ones we are currently unwilling to make. I guess this must have worked for thousands and thousands of alcoholics, but I laid mine out differently.

George said something important, "This is a list, not a script." Hank said there is no point of even thinking about amends until you have worked 6 and 7 and become willing to not do the offending behavior again, many agreed. It is pointless and painful on both ends to say, "I'm sorry," and do the same thing again.

Some folks said they were "sorry people" who felt responsible for everything that ever went wrong. Sponsorship resolves this fairly quickly. Several expressed that total willingness for all their amends did not come until the next step was underway, or in many cases, until several more years had passed. Also, (again stressing sponsorship!) the best we can do in some cases is just leave the person alone. We should not try to heal ourselves by opening the wounds of others. Along these lines, many of mine were when I was overseas in the service, in a different state, or the person was dead. So in these cases, making the list, reflecting upon these harms, and having a sincere wish to mend the relationship, along with putting the matter in front of my sponsor, is the healing. I feel this step was more beneficial to me than the direct amends in step 9.

This step also has a financial component, and this part works, too. Be willing to pay the money back, or make a payment plan and stick to it. But in my case, for one creditor, I needed to start making payments immediately, I did not dodge responsibility because I was not on this step yet. That is not an excuse for newcomers. Also, the bullshit about telling other AA's, "Well, I'll put you on my 8th step," is just that, bullshit. The second part of the step is willingness, we must take actions. But, that is a discussion for step nine.

Our recently departed member Tommy used to speak about shame when we came to 8 and 9. He was spot on. Shame will get us drunk, and these amends steps are a small price to pay for a lifetime of freedom. Remember, the "promises" from pages 86 & 87 in the Big Book come after step eight - we will be amazed before we are halfway through.

Next week, the first Thursday of the third month, Tradition Three - The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

Keep Comin' Back,
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Eight Meeting - 02/26/09 07:24 PM

This is the oldest joke in AA.

Two guys, Fred and James, grew up together, went to school together, got drunk together, worked together, and got sober together. As they aged, they agreed that the first one to die would try to contact the other, and say if there was any AA in the afterlife.

The time came and James died. As agreed, noon the next day Fred went into meditation, and James began speaking to him. He said it was a wonderful place. Fred asked if there was AA there, and James said, well, yes, meetings 3 times a day, lots of oldtimers, good fellowship, only one piece of bad news.

Fred asked, "What's the bad news?"

James answered, "You are scheduled as the lead speaker next Friday."

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Edit - There is only one rule in AA. Who can name it?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Eight Meeting - 02/26/09 08:18 PM

Answer : Rule #62.

What is it?

Answer April 2nd.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: tattypatty

Re: Thurs. Step Eight Meeting - 02/26/09 08:55 PM

Don't take yourself to seriously. I found this guy when I googled. He's pretty funny...

http://www.aaspeakers.org/Earl_H-from-Studio_City_CA-at-the_Rule_62_Roundup-in-Erlanger_KY-on-08-10-2001

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Eight Meeting - 02/27/09 04:00 AM

Yes. "Don't take yourself too damn seriously." From the Tradition Four essay in the 12 x 12, more detail April 2 when the group discusses Tradition Four.

There are a couple guys in my group who go to the Rule 62 Roundup, and the Hairy Legged Boys workshop in Kentucky, I've never been.

Duh, I never thought about free downloads of lead tapes online. I don't listen to very many tapes (I guess they are CDs now), but maybe I'll download some. I'll bet there's some good stuff out there.

Thanks,
-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Tradition Three Meeting - 03/05/09 06:43 PM

It is a nice night in Dayton, a little windy, but 61F. I rode the bike to the meeting. The Group started the first Thursday in March, 1978, so tonight we celebrated our 31st anniversary with a cake. There were 16 alcoholics there. Bill got a token for 12 years, and my friend Tom was celebrating 19 years.

Tradition Three - The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

Long form of Tradition Three - Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought AA membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an AA group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.

PAY ATTENTION! If you say you are an AA member, you are. No one may refuse you recovery. You don't need to bring anything, you don't have to believe in anything. You are in if you say so. I want to make this crystal clear - and share that many in our group said tonight they would not be here if it had been any other way. Don't let anything deny you a seat. If you say you need this thing, here it. We will be thrilled to share it with you. No exceptions. No one may throw you out, although if you are exceptionally unruly or blatantly disrespect the rules of the facility you are in, you may be asked to come back another day, please.

That leaves us drunks no excuses. Go to AA. They can't throw you out. For some of us, it was the last place for us to go. No matter how high or how low, we know. Welcome. I will love you like an old friend, because everything is here for YOU!

Keep comin' back. We won't throw you out, we may say some things you need to, but don't want to, hear, but we will always welcome you back. Many members of our Group, now sober many years, tried for several years before they finally achieved long term sobriety.

For my part, I thought this membership requirement very difficult. It took me either 6 weeks, or 15 years, to be eligible, depending on how you look at it. I didn't want to put the plug in the jug. But, I kept comin' back, and it worked.

We went to almost 9:00 tonight. There is so much in this simple principle. But you get the main idea. A couple things to leave you with, then I'll close this week's essay up.

I was privileged to attend an Ohio State Convention when the archivist from GSO in New York spoke. He said newcomers don't want to know about the steps, they want to know about the Traditions. Who runs this? How much does it cost? Do I have to join? What projects are you involved in?

Darrin said, "If more people would follow some simple principles, we wouldn't need rules."

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Nine Meeting - 03/12/09 06:20 PM

We had 13 people at the meeting tonight, and 4 members at the Intergroup business meeting downtown. Robert celebrated 7 years sobriety, and those of us who were around 10 years or so ago, were thrilled to see Glen. He was a regular when I first started, then dropped out of sight. He has been sober, attending an occasional meeting elsewhere, but he was glad to be back.

Step Nine - Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Talk tonight seemed to center around parents. Some people had a good, long discussion with a parent, but that seemed rare. Most of the time, it seems we do not need to say too much to those close to us, it is awkward. But some recognition that wrongs have been committed must be made.

This is a sponsorship step. Going at this too early or with the wrong motive sometimes results in disaster. For most of us, our sponsor whittled down the list. And while it is not helpful to rehearse a dialog, having a general idea of what to say and how to say it is a good idea.

It was said that it is better to use the word "wrong" than "sorry" for several reasons.

This can also involve money, one needs to be prepared to pay money back or make arrangements to do so, when making amends to those we owe.

Another theme tonight was teenage children. This brought up the general way to approach an amend without seeming to grovel. We admit we were wrong, express regret, and be willing to set things right, as best we can.

Sometimes, the best amends we can make is to stay away. Other times, a visit to a gravesite may be appropriate.

Many of us have repaired relationships with parents, spouses, employers, and children. We learn a lot about our relationships with these amends steps. This has given me the courage to admit mistakes in general, and to have a sincere desire not to harm others.

Next week, step ten. Keep Comin' Back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Nine Meeting - 03/12/09 07:09 PM

A salesman was at a convention in a fancy Chicago high rise hotel, and ate and drank a bit much. He went upstairs to his room on the 10th floor and went to bed. He couldn't hold back and soiled the bed linens. Afraid he would be found out and become the laughing stock of all the widget salesmen, he threw the bedsheet out the window.

About this time, one of the more adventuresome conventioneers was stumbling down the sidewalk after drinking his fill in a local bar. The sheet fell over top of him, and after he struggled out of it, he found himself face to face with one of Chicago's finest. The policeman asked what the hell was going on, and the drunk replied, "You aren't going to believe this, officer, but I just beat the shit out of a ghost!"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Ten Meeting - 03/19/09 06:14 PM

It was a nice night here in Dayton, a bit cool, but I still rode the bike to the meeting. There were 14 of us. One of our long time members who had cancer, Bob P., died this week. He was Buddhist, a quiet guy, soft spoken, very serene. He is missed.

Step Ten - Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

This was a good meeting for me. All but one of us had double digit sobriety, and Bill has 5 years. Ann opened the meeting and spoke about all the standard step 10 stuff. Briefly, there are 3 kinds of 10th steps, the spot check inventory, the daily inventory, and an occasional look at how we have done for a longer period of time. Many people, like me, do an annual inventory. The end of day inventory is part of our evening program, and we can always have some gratitude, even if it is just for staying sober that day.

The meeting really focused on the spot check inventories and how we use this step in daily living. People shared about needing to go here when we are challenged by situations, when we begin to feel angry, jealous, fearful, and so on. Many shared personal experiences from the recent past, even things that happened today.

Restraint of tongue and pen was stressed, and restraint of e-mail was also mentioned. This is the challenge, to recognize and stop our behaviors before we take actions we regret later. Step 10 lets us look inside when we are upset, and settle the disturbance. Then, we may take reasoned and appropriate action if indicated.

Also discussed was how we can set things right if we have gone too far. Most examples were about words said in anger, at home or work. This step lets us go to the person and apologize, freeing ourselves of guilt and repairing the relationship.

This is a lifelong endeavor, and something timely to discuss for me, as I have some challenges now at work. But judging by the folks I've met in AA, this step works very well, and lets us get along without all the turmoil we used to cause. Of course, here on XPT, we joke around and cut on each other, but no real harm is going to come from posts on a wide open porn board, I hope.

Next week, Step 11. Keep Comin' Back!

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Ten Meeting - 03/19/09 06:16 PM

An AA group decided to volunteer to paint the church basement where they met. They were to paint white, where the walls had been blue. Being a bit "thrifty" the drunks got about half the paint they needed, and cut it with paint thinner. It looked good when they put it on, but as it started to dry, the blue began to show through in an ugly way.

As the drunks watched this, they began to wonder how to fix it. One said out loud, "What should we do?" A booming voice came from the pastor's office, "Re-paint, and thin no more!"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Ten Meeting - 03/19/09 10:27 PM

I used to paint all my apartments and forfeit the damage deposit back just so I could really style my place out. My serial designer heart sank at the thought of someone not priming the walls first.

Posted by: Soopergrizz

Re: Thurs. Step Ten Meeting - 03/19/09 10:38 PM

Charin - just so you don't go to bed sad, I want you to know I got the joke and it was cute.

Repent and sin no more = Repaint and thin no more, from a priest! Geddit? Sigh.

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Ten Meeting - 03/19/09 10:45 PM

My barely church going ass didn't get the joke until you told me. I love it!

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Eleven Meeting - 03/26/09 06:35 PM

It is another nice night in Dayton, I rode the Kawasaki to the meeting. We had a good crowd, 19 alcoholics, including 2 women there for the first time.

Step Eleven - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

This tool is available to all who would use it, regardless of faith. Our discussion started with the Chairperson stressing how we have an objective here, and ought to keep that in mind. We should be attempting to bring ourselves in more conscious contact with our Higher Power. For me, that means I need to emphasize being aware through the day that I am attempting to live according to altruistic motivations.

The Chairperson also shared, as she does each time we come to this step, how she tried yoga and meditation on speed, and that didn't work well at all. And George always talks about hearing "prayer and medication" when he went to his first meeting.

Many different techniques are used among our group's members. Almost all of us have something like a formal morning program, where we may read something and have a period of quiet, followed by prayer. Some of these are more elaborate, with a half hour of reading, meditating, etc, while mine is much shorter, a brief pause followed by a short rote prayer. I ask for strength and guidance. I need to ask for help more often.

A couple folks shared about how religion helped them with this. Several of us talked about finding 11th step experiences in nature, while hiking. While the 12 x 12 used the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi as an example, many of us shared other things we have explored in depth. Scripture, recovery literature, daily meditation guides, for me, the step we are on this week, gratitude, and our concerns for others are topics. Others with more experience talked of emptying their minds and experiencing quiet, this is a place some of us rarely visit, and some never find.

I am so grateful that a drunk like me can have a daily spiritual life. I do believe it is very important for us drunks to reach deep inside ourselves on a daily basis, to honestly confront who and what we are, and what we believe we should do for the day.

Next week, Tradition Four, and more about Rule 62. Keep Comin' Back!

**********
Emo Philips says when he was a little boy, he prayed and prayed for a bicycle. When he learned that God doesn't work that way, he stole a bicycle and prayed for forgiveness.
**********

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

This is post 999 for me, and GF29 has arrived. Look for a review tomorrow evening after I meditate upon it. First peek reveals some very good scenes. Also, I am back to work after a short break, so I'll be posting less.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Eleven Meeting - 03/26/09 08:06 PM

I'm still working on how cross eyed all the drunks were from smelling all the paint and thinner. That shit's a rush !

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Tradition Four Meeting - 04/02/09 06:28 PM

It was a drizzly night here in Dayton, and there were only 11 alcoholics at our meeting. All of us have many years experience in AA. Ed's wife sent some chocolate chip sandwich cookies that were excellent.

Tradition Four - Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other Groups or AA as a whole.

Tradition Four, long form - With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.

There is a lot to discuss after reading this chapter in the 12 x 12 (Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions). Many years ago, two women from Dayton went on vacation in New England and brought back a brick from Wambly's Clapboard Factory, mentioned in Bill's essay. Of course, this is also the chapter where Rule #62 is found - Don't take yourself too damn seriously. This is a topic that could be discussed for an entire meeting. Tonight, however, the discussion drifted towards us long timers sharing about our experiences with different groups and our service structure.

There is a lot of freedom here for the groups. This allows groups to conduct meetings as they see fit. It allows groups to take on their own personalities. This allows newcomers to find a group they are comfortable in. It gives us the flexibility to carry the message the best we know how in different environments. It allows us to make a comfortable place for each other and for new people.

With this freedom comes responsibility. We all seemed to agree that although we are at first shocked by groups that break traditions and don't stick to the AA message, if something is not spiritually based, it soon enough fades away. As Bill says in the book, just about every mistake that can be made, has been tried, and AA has survived. Some of the things that were mentioned were groups that were tied up with religion, a group where women were being pimped out, a group that tried to hold a car wash, groups that had conflicts of personalities take over, groups that used their treasuries for non-AA purposes, and groups that just did not focus on recovery. All of these groups we mentioned have faded away over a relatively short time.

We discussed how we are responsible to other groups and AA as a whole. Hank spoke about how different places try to schedule events so they do not conflict with other popular events. We discussed how we have an obligation to present the AA message at our meetings, to keep our closed group a closed meeting, and how we have an obligation to be a good tenant and not soil the AA name. Our group is particularly cognizant of these responsibilities, as we have a past delegate, two DCM's, and active GSR and an active intergroup representative, and the chair of the local central office committee in our group. Plus, two of us attend prison meetings. Quite a lot of service work going on in my group.

Also mentioned was the "Fourth Dimension" type of meeting that has sprung up in the last few years. Early in AA history, there were two places where there was AA - Akron, Ohio and New York. In Akron, our co-founder Dr. Bob (a proctologist) was a prolific 12th stepper, and people would go to Akron to "take the cure" as it were. Well, Dr. Bob and company only had these guys for about a week, so they sobered them up and pumped them as full of AA as they could, including a blitzkrieg through the steps.

The modern Fourth Dimension groups take their name from a line in the Big Book (the book "Alcoholics Anonymous") about us being rocketed into a fourth dimension. They take newcomers through the steps in about a week, using some techniques that most mainstream AAs find questionable. I have not heard much good about these groups or many tales of success, but I have no first hand experience, so I won't say too much. The mention made tonight was that these groups may be affecting AA as a whole by presenting something that is not the actual AA program.

This works. It is like a self cleaning oven, groups that carry the AA message thrive, those that don't, don't. We remain flexible but consistent in our message. And it did me good to hear a little about Rule #62.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Tradition Four Meeting - 04/02/09 06:31 PM

A Woman Shares - Miracle Of Toilet Paper

Fresh from my shower, I stood in front of the mirror complaining to my
husband that my breasts are too small. Instead of characteristically
telling me it's not so, he uncharacteristically comes up with a
suggestion.

"If you want your breasts to grow, then every day take a piece of toilet
paper and rub it between them for a few seconds."

Willing to try anything, I fetched a piece of toilet paper and stood in
front of the mirror, rubbing it between my breasts. "How long will this
take?" I asked.

"They will grow larger over a period of years," my husband replies.

I stopped.. "Do you really think rubbing a piece of toilet paper between
my breasts every day will make my breasts larger over the years?''

Without missing a beat he says, "Worked for your butt, didn't it?"

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Twelve Meeting - 04/09/09 06:34 PM

It was a nice night here in Dayton, I rode to the meeting. There were 13 of us there, and 4 members at the Intergroup meeting downtown.

Step Twelve - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

There are 3 parts to this - the spiritual awakening, carrying the message, and practicing the principles. We discussed all three.

The spiritual awakening part was best described by the guy with a little under two years. He shared with us about how his life had changed since he started AA, how he now felt life had a purpose. His outlook on life has changed, he now sees joy and freedom, where before he struggled through. Others talked about having spiritual awakenings as they discovered more about spirituality or the AA program or how things could work out for them. I believe there is a difference between a spiritual experience and a spiritual awakening, the awakening can be a lasting thing if proper spiritual maintenance is maintained. We also talked about how this awakening in AA is universally available, it is not a religious conversion, but a new way of looking at life, a new direction.

The experienced members had some stories about 12th step calls. Answering the phone at the clubhouse led to several experiences for one member, suicides, very drunk drunks, people just wanting a ride for whatever, and drunks with telephonitis. One guy had a fellow try to jump out of his car while he was driving 60 MPH. In Dayton years ago, we had a member killed in a 12th step call. Getting into the middle of a domestic dispute is not a fun time, either. These are some of the reasons we suggest we never go alone on a 12th step call.

There are a lot of other ways to carry the AA message, and the bottom line is this helps us stay sober. We put the program out there, make the tools available, and work with new people as they are willing. But we cannot take credit for their sobriety, and we are not responsible if they get drunk. If we stay sober ourselves, it is a successful 12th step job. Keeping the meetings going, making coffee, committee work, taking meetings to prisons and treatment centers, these are all part of helping the newcomer discover the freedom we have found through AA. These things all help me stay sober.

Practicing the AA principles in all our affairs is a challenge. It is difficult to keep the focus on recovery, to remember who and what I am, and what I am supposed to be following, when I am confronted with difficult people, especially at work. We are far from perfect here. It is easy to be nice inside the rooms of AA, but carrying that throughout the day and in all our activities is the great challenge. Looking to the previous step, keeping a conscious contact with a Higher Power is the key to this.

So, some semantic opinions here. What is a spiritual awakening? I like the 12 x 12 definition, that someone can do that which he was unable to do before on his unaided will. And what is meant by "these principles"? I think that is different for different people, but it is the principles we are committed to living by in the preceding steps, the altruistic principles we developed working the program.

I will continue these little essays for two more weeks, after step 2 we will have come full circle. And this is 12th step work for me, I don't expect anyone will get sober as a direct result of these posts, but I've shown people that the program has substance and is available, and maybe planted a seed or two. But most importantly, I enjoy writing these and they help me look at how I work the AA program.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 06:44 PM

It was a beautiful night here, I rode to the meeting. There were 14 of us, including my sponsor's first sponsor, Lou O. Our treasurer announced that we have sent off donations to the local Central Office, SW Ohio General Service Area 56, and the General Service Office in New York.

Step One - We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I love step one meetings. We seemed to talk a lot about the need to hit a bottom, how we struggled with wanting to want to. Two of the members had hit a physical bottom. Since we are all experienced AAs, in hindsight it is funny how far down we went, still thinking we could handle the problem ourselves. That was the hard thing to understand - that we had to have help to battle alcoholism. The other thing that was hard for many of us we the idea of total abstinence.

Somewhere, each of us had a turning point. We were at a bottom, and had the moment of clarity that led us to understand that we needed help from something larger than ourselves. That is the importance of the first word in this step, "We". Each of us had to accept that collectively, as a part of this "we" we call AA, we can do what we were unable to do alone. But we have to pay the dues to convince ourselves that we can't beat it alone.

For me, a better understanding of the nature of alcoholism was the last straw. I realized I would never get better, only worse. My life sucked, and it would only get worse if I continued drinking. And I had seen enough of AA to know there was a decent alternative.

I did not start with the intention of staying sober for 18 years, of course. One day at a time is the concept that helps us accept this drastic proposal, the idea that a drunk would not drink at all today. I could live this drastic approach day to day.

It is certainly different for different people. I think we reach a point where we are unwilling to go down further, when an alternative is at hand. Unfortunately, this is not above ground for some people. They continue, like my lover Tonya, to drink until they drink themselves to death. For others, mixing in drugs leads to a place they cannot go. Some of us have had to go to prison, or become mentally ill, to hit bottom. I also joke that sometimes a divorce attorney can bring about a spiritual experience in an alcoholic.

This is the humor within AA that outsiders don't seem to get. Some stories I've heard - A camping honeymoon where the boat was sunk and camp was burnt to the ground - drunk driving in a loaded school bus - getting arrested two times in the same night by the same cap for hitting the same tree - a whole hour long meeting where everyone told a story of destroying a Christmas tree or throwing one through a window - an airline pilot who made national news for the first flying while intoxicated arrest of a commercial airline pilot (he still flies, and says many AAs do, and many pilots need AA) - John digging graves at the VA and some woman pouring a fifth of whiskey on her husband's coffin saying, "This is all you cared about when you were alive, now you can have the shit forever!" - the time I got drunk on Friday night and my dog spent the weekend in jail - our absolute fascination with alcohol, then and now, set a beer can in a room and we all would just stare at it.

Identifying with each other is crucial to identifying ourselves as alcoholic, that's why we share our stories. That is the way we have to have it, we need to hear from other alcoholics about this game, how we can only win by surrendering. Strange, wonderful, and tragic disease, I love it, and I hate it. Thank God I get to be around other sober alcoholics and relive the old times, so I never forget what misery awaits if I pick up the first drink.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 07:09 PM

Damn... I was hoping someone would mention whipits.
Just so you knew the circle was like THAT.

Good post Chuck... Very emotional and the "we" is a play on the religion of it all. As it should be since you seem to pass the plate and make donations. Good for you (them).

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 07:15 PM

I saw a whippet today wearing a sweater, you mean those little greyhound looking dogs, right?

Our expenses are a monthly donation to the church for our meeting space ($75), coffee, some literature, that's about it. We each throw a dollar or two in the basket if we want to. We never keep more than about $100 in our treasury. It really isn't a big deal at all.

No religion. If religion fixed drunks, there would be no need for AA.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 07:28 PM

You say steps and most call em commandments. I'd trust your faith over most preachers and priests. The fact that you roll day to day is no more or less of a sign of wavering faith. And that's exactly what keeps the masses coming and going every Sunday.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 08:35 PM

The root word of commandment is command. We suggest.

Faith is belief in something unseen. I've seen that if I work AA, I stay sober. I've also seen in others that if I don't, I won't. That's a fact of life for Chuck.

I wish I could force newcomers to get this stuff. I've been to two meetings in as many days, where this was discussed. Every one of us have several stories of people we've worked with who went back out and met an untimely demise. But all we can do is share our experiences and help them if they are willing, we can't give them the willingness. I wish you were right, Lou, I wish we could be as prolific and evangelical as churches. But there must be some little bit of us in you, Lou, because we drunks are just as skeptical as you, just as fast to run like hell away from anything that would control us, anything that would set off our hypersensitive bullshit detectors. That's why it is like it is, all we can do is suggest, and share our stories, and help when we are asked.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/16/09 08:41 PM

Hey Chuck- flesh out the story about the burned boat and campground. I want to hear all the details.

Posted by: loopnode

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 12:11 AM

Is there a thread where charin explains how much he used to drink, and what he used to drink? I kinda feel like am missing something here.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 09:31 AM

My story is attached. It ain't pretty.

Of course, it isn't about what we drank or how much, but what it did to our lives. And whether it's a thimble or a barrel, full is full.

But, because you asked -

As a kid, anything I could get my hands on. Usually, stolen beer because we could get it, my friend was a grocery clerk. I'd also sneak into my dad's Seagram's 7 bottle. I drank a fifth of vodka by myself, I found it. Drank a fifth of Boone's Farm once, it didn't even give me much of a buzz.

In the service initially, I drank a ton of beer. Sometimes, I would drink brown liquor, but it got me too drunk too quickly. I was a daily drinker, and I drank a lot of Pearl and Lone Star when I was in Texas.

Later in Okinawa, I tried some Suntory (did I spell that right?) and liked it a lot, and Japanese beer is also excellent, but mostly I did my daily drinking (8-12 beers) of American beer. Also, Okinawa was where I developed a taste for scotch. Funny, saki makes me break out in a rash on my inner thighs near my scrotum. Every time, and the only time I've ever had the rash.

Panama, I drank seco. What the fuck is seco? If you order rum in a Panamanian bar (at least places like the Ancon) you will get seco, a local rum like booze made from mangos or some shit, that is more like vodka than rum. I knew it, and ordered it, and they called me "Seco and Coke", that was my nickname in the whore bars. I'd drink a lot of beer on base. Of course, I smoked a barn full of pot in Panama. I remember early in Panama, sitting at the little bar down the street from the Ancon, me and this MP polished off a gallon of Johnny Walker over the bar.

Back to Bragg (N.C.), back to a lot of American beer and more liquor. I had developed a taste for booze. One nickname I had there was "half a gallon" because I would buy a half gallon of something good like Canadian Mist. I also started a tradition of always getting a fifth of Tequila for laundry day. I got to play around with stuff like Everclear, and got a DUI after killing most of a bottle of 151. Wild Turkey, Yukon Jack (much better than Southern Comfort), VO, stuff like that.

After I got out and started school, I was poor, and discovered and embraced the world of fortified wines. MD 20-20, and Richard's Wild Irish Rose. But something else I really liked was the Long Island Iced Tea they sold in the convenience stores. There in Fayetteville is where I got the craters in the crooks of my arms, from giving plasma so I could buy wine.

Back to Ohio, after I got going well in my job, oceans of beer and lots of brown liquor, Tonya drank the vodka sold in convenience stores, so I had my share of that, too. Of course, alcoholism is progressive, so I drank more and more as the years wore on.

I drank a lot of Busch, and a lot of Bud with one girlfriend (Tony). Later, I used to drink a lot of Little Kings in a can (?!) yes, they come that way, and are much cheaper and just as potent. One store the clerks would just grab a six out of the cooler as soon as I came through the door, which was several times a week. Some of the malt liquors I liked were Schlitz, Colt .45 (early), and yes, Old English 800 (is it 800?). Did I mention Jack?

Again, I was a daily drinker, and a frequent blackout drinker.

I only drank for 15 years, and I didn't have a hollow leg or anything. But I drank enough to get me to AA.

I am still fascinated by it. I went to the stock broker's office with my credentials to claim my inheritance, and the lady there said I could have my quarter million after she did about 20 minutes of paperwork. I decided to take a walk in the shopping center there, and there wasn't much around but Arrow Wine. I thought no big deal, I'll look at cigars and curios, but I forgot Ohio did away with state liquor stores and now places like this were liquor stores. I was face to face with all my old friends, waiting to inherit this money. I had a decision to make, to make love with these old friends for a few years, or to continue with sobriety. Of course, I chose not to put any of the wonderful delights inside me that day. But I was mesmerized. There was the Seagram's 7 that took so many years of my dad's life, that I used to steal as a child. A new Canadian Mist bottle, I liked the old one. A half gallon of Jack Daniels, that'll work! Chevas was alway pretty. Beam - yuck. Then I turned around and saw the Johnny Walker and the other scotches, and I could taste it, in a glass with one ice cube. And the rum, Jesus, the rum. I turned the corner and there was a half aisle of Tequila! Everyone has a tequila story! They even had the little airplane one shot bottles, I thought the AA's were right, one of those little bottles would be too much, but the whole inventory wouldn't be enough. Then I spotted a young yuppie looking bitch looking at the fru-fru wines, and I thought that woman has no idea the special relationship I have with the items in this store.

Favorites:
Import - Jesus, I forgot the name of the Filipino beer. The kind you get overseas sucks, but the kind they send here is very good.
Mist
Dewar's

Nothing too fancy, we alcoholics drink primarily for effect.

I could go on forever. Thanks for asking.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 09:36 AM

Chuck, thank you for posting that.

If you've never read "The Lost Weekend" by Charles Jackson I think you would would enjoy it.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 03:25 PM

Is this the beer ?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 03:42 PM

Yeah, once more, a new bottle. I liked the old one.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: loopnode

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/17/09 11:29 PM

Hey Chuck thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed reading that, but gutted about Tonya dying. I'm always real curious about people's story. I'd never have guessed your story started so early.

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step One Meeting - 04/18/09 10:49 AM

When is Bree's Chair Leg going to report on a Thursday Step Stool Meeting?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 04/23/09 06:35 PM

It's a beautiful night in Dayton. There were 14 experienced AA members at our meeting tonight. Tim H., a regular member from years ago, got a 20 year anniversary token.

Step two - Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

This is my favorite step.

Our chairperson opened by talking about how the literature clearly states we don't have to believe in anything, that the steps are suggestions. He spoke of how we have a large hoop to jump through here, and can make it with room to spare, if we have willingness and are open minded. This fact that AA is open to people of all beliefs, or none at all, was appreciated by many of our members. The first person to talk hit me where I am now, she discussed how it is a challenge to bring this step to bear on problems other than alcohol. I realize in some things, I am not willing to be restored to sanity.

It was pointed out, however, that Bill W. was speaking of the insanity, the peculiar mental twists, that come before an alcoholic takes that first drink, knowing what the consequences will surely be. And some believe the steps were divinely inspired, and the fact that Bill wrote the steps, and the Big Book, when he was only sober a relatively short time, bears witness to it. I dunno about that, but like Ed, a big part of step two for me, in the beginning and now, is the knowledge that the AA program works.

Ed is atheist, and this is his daily faith, that he is alcoholic, AA works, and he wants to stay sober today. Many others, perhaps the majority of AA's, have a personal belief in a Higher Power, who we call God, that is not defined by any religion, a generic belief in something bigger than us all. We talked about Don S., a departed member who was a Marinist Brother in the Catholic church, and we talked about some other long time members who have went to the big meeting in the sky. I spoke of the old days when Tim and others would go to Frisch's restaurant after the meeting for a snack, and how seeing other drunks my age, not full of shit, and sober and enjoying life, made step two so much easier for me.

Lou O. had the best story. He is one of the 4 members there tonight with over 30 years of continuous sobriety. He said he has , a dachshund with a bladder problem, who drinks about a gallon and a half of water a day, and spreads it on his lawn. The grass is dead in spots, so this being spring, Lou got some grass seed and dug a little and seeded the bare areas. It has rained heavily early this week, and Lou said nothing was happening with the grass seed. He was angry at the rain, wishing it would stop, so he could properly water the newly planted grass seed! Then he got it, sat back and saw the little seeds start to sprout in the last day or so, as the weather has warmed and nature's rain has done a proper job of watering. So it is with step two for us experienced AA's, George says he has came to the conclusion that there is a lot more coming to to come to.

If you want to find a reason to drink, you will. If you want to find a way to stay sober, step two is open for you, you can make it work.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 04/23/09 06:35 PM

This brings us full circle on the steps. I hope you have enjoyed hearing about our little Ohio AA Group. It is a bit different, but aren't they all? There are many different kinds of meetings, speaker meetings where one AA tells their story, discussion meetings where a topic, or topics, are discussed, step meetings like mine, beginner's meetings. Big and small meetings, meetings with all types of people. Men's and Women's meetings, gay meetings. If you want to stay sober, it is important that you look around until you find a Home Group, in addition to going to a variety of meetings.

I am a step head. I think the steps are the heart of the program, this is what worked for me. Ultimately, all us AA's can do is share our own experience, I hope that's what I've done.

Let me close by saying if you are enjoying what you are doing, more power to you. That's what life is all about. We do not crusade. But if you want to quit and can't, give us a fair chance. Find a Home Group, a sponsor, and work these steps. And keep this knowledge, it might come in handy in 10 years, 1000 miles from where we are now, for yourself, or someone close to you.

I'll keep looking here and reply if appropriate, or if I hear any more good jokes. Thanks for letting me share.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: Soopergrizz

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 04/23/09 06:38 PM

Thanks for sharing Chuck. I enjoy the window into your life.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 04/23/09 07:23 PM

Agreed, good stuff Chuck. Thanks and good for you.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 04/24/09 01:49 PM

Our Big Book tries to drive home the point that after the first drink, the alcoholic is out of control.

I read about a controlled drinking program for alcoholics in 1981. I attempted it for the next 9 years. Didn't work.

From our Big Book, titled Alcoholics Anonymous, page 30:

Quote:

The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

Welcome to my world.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 06/23/09 11:12 AM

Big Book, pg. 84-85

Quote:

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone, even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

I go to meetings because I enjoy them, the principles we discuss enhance my life, and it provides maintenance like brushing my teeth or changing oil in the car.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 03/23/10 05:21 PM

Hey Charin, do you still attend meetings? Do you have a sponsor? Are you someone's sponsor?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Two Meeting - 03/23/10 06:11 PM

Yes, yes, no.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 03/31/10 09:27 PM

Chuck, do I have to find and/or understand God first, in order for AA/NA/OA to work for me?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 03/31/10 10:09 PM

No, it works the other way around. The program helps us come to terms with our spirituality, on our own terms. In my case, instead of "choosing" a Higher Power, I explored my beliefs as honestly as I could and let my perception develop. It is still changing.

There was is excellent book written by Ernie Katz, I think I have the author right, titled Not God. He did an non-alcoholics history of our fellowship, and took the title from the principle that the most important thing we alcoholics need to realize is we are not God. That seems simple and obvious, but a big step for some of us.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 03/31/10 10:25 PM

Would you like to be my sponsor? If you say "No", I'll understand. I can be a real fucking pain in the ass.

JK.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/01/10 06:28 PM

Maybe you should look at this thread.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/01/10 08:31 PM

Baby cakes is there any way you can water that one down for me?.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/01/10 08:45 PM

Quote:

From the Los Angeles Central Office Web Site :
If you would like information about Alcoholics Anonymous, or about AA meetings in the greater Los Angeles area, please telephone (800) 923-8722.

I went to a meeting tonight. There are lots of meetings where you are, go to some and ask for some help. Get a copy of the books "Alcoholics Anonymous" (the Big Book) and "Living Sober" and make sure you get a meeting schedule. You'll catch on from there, if you want to.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/01/10 09:04 PM

I saw that. You could have just told me "god bless your troubled little soul, but you bug like a motherfucker and I have no interest in continuing any of this with you." even a simple "fuck off", would have been fine. I'm interested in meetings like I'm interested in school. I want a sponsor like I want to meet my mom for lunch but no more than I'd want my spirit guide to post on XPT and tear Lou a new gaping fuck hole for breaking my...

Its just not for me. I guess you just made an otherwise borring subject seem interesting but probably no more than that. Think: Charin:Recovery; Bornyo:God; Thanks anyway.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 02:54 AM

It's a nice day here in Ohio. I believe "birdsong" is a time, a time to awaken and enjoy a new day.

I like today's Daily Reflections. Very apropos.

Someone put some of the tips from the Living Sober book online. Very basic, simple stuff. Good stuff to last a lifetime. Most powerful truths and useful tools are basic and simple.

I'm going to hop on the bike, have breakfast at Hasty Tasty, take the opportunity to go into work and do a quick couple soldering repairs since we are not operating on the holiday. I might make one of the 10 a.m. meetings, and I might move the RV down to the park I joined. Get the dog out for a hike, and spread some mulch. Watch a little baseball, and Gag Factor 13. Great day to be sober.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 04:20 PM

I'll drink to th^t. L'Chayim!

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 04:33 PM

No fuzzy bunny day for you Electro?. That makes sense and I like it. I'm just now getting the h3ll0 k1tty thing you got going, it's kinda rockin. Who needs the Easter Bunny once a year when you can have HK every fucken day?. Yes.

Nothing bad ever happened to Hello Kitty, right?. There was no washing of sins, stations of the cross, toe-nail joints, foot fetish whores etc.. It's completely fictional and made for sale, right?. A business.

Posted by: electrostatic

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 04:51 PM

Post Deleted by Hello Kitty. Brought To You In Part By 2-buck kcuhC.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 04:51 PM

Charin,

What is the definition of insanity???

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 04/02/10 05:19 PM

Quote:

I like today's Daily Reflections. Very apropos.

Fiend... the definition of insanity is expecting things to do themselves over and over and then having a result.

Chuck.. That reflection makes me want to hurt people. If I could even bring myself to sit down with a bunch of losers and even begin to pretend that I cared about them that type of shit would leave everyone in the room with broken pieces of face. In short... fuck off.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 04:25 AM

20 years today.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: Uncle Joe

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 04:33 AM

Are there any alcs who make their own booze?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 04:44 AM

Clarence S. from Cleveland's story "Home Brewmeister" was in the First and Second Editions of the Big Book, I've attached his story in a text file.

Posted by: Uomo Grassissimo!!

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 05:48 PM

Quote:

20 years today.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Congrats, sir.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 06:45 PM

"My wife became pregnant and the doctor recommended the use of Porter Ale..."

I have no words...

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 07:08 PM

Hank had been saving up this fancy token John gave him for 9 years.

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/10 07:47 PM

Quote:

Hank had been saving up this fancy token John gave him for 9 years.

Is that a Dos Equis bottle cap you tossed in your RV parking lot? How appropriate for you fucking alkies.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/15/10 03:46 AM

Congratulations on your sobriety anniversary.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/15/10 06:48 AM

Quote:

Dos Equis

Ha! I like that.

Funny, when I got sober, folks with 20 years were called old timers. 9 years ago when Hank got this same token, he mentioned that now that's not the case. True, I looked around at the meeting last night, and I feel like my wonderful journey is just beginning.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/10 04:34 PM

http://www.220.ro/desene-animate/08-Birds-Anonymous/4SUEobG94F/

Posted by: Luca Eisenstein

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 02:09 PM

Quote:

20 years today.

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Belated congratulations! A very interesting thread.It's good to read about people who choose the long rocky path through life over the downward spiral to death. And their journeys.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 02:18 PM

Thanks.

Last night, I heard a woman from Cincinnati who got sober in 1991 share her story. She dropped out of high school, was minimum wage, didn't have a clue with men, family disowned her, on and on. Today, she is happily married and pursuing her Ph.D., and she has travelled quite a bit. She helped both her parents a great deal in their last days. I know her from a few years ago, good to see her doing well, we chatted a short while.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 02:34 PM

Chuck, you don't have to pretend here. You're amongst friends. Just let it out. We understand.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 02:38 PM

Quote:

Thanks.

Last night, I heard a woman from Cincinnati who got sober in 1991 share her story. She dropped out of high school, was minimum wage, didn't have a clue with men, family disowned her, on and on. Today, she is happily married and pursuing her Ph.D., and she has travelled quite a bit. She helped both her parents a great deal in their last days. I know her from a few years ago, good to see her doing well, we chatted a short while.

while you were chatting with her did you fantasize about throat fucking her?. did you imagine her UP SIDE DOWN!?.

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 03:14 PM

I am certain there are no niggers allowed in AA. I'm dead certain.

Chuck why don't y'all allow niggers into AA?

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 03:15 PM

^^^Dayum. That's fucked up.

What would the Kingfish say to that?

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 04:26 PM

Every man a King?

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 04:33 PM

Quote:

Every man a King?

They tried that during reconstruction. The results were both hilarious and disastrous.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 04:43 PM

Toward the end of his life General Grant came to the excellent conclusion that the former Confederate states would have benefitted from twenty years of military rule. Would have avoided the twin evils of carpetbagger/scalawag dominated regimes and the white supremacist regimes that replaced them.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 04:46 PM

I was thinking of Amos & Andy.

The guy who posts under that account would be acceptable as well.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 04:49 PM

Quote:

Toward the end of his life General Grant came to the excellent conclusion that the former Confederate states would have benefitted from twenty years of military rule. Would have avoided the twin evils of carpetbagger/scalawag dominated regimes and the white supremacist regimes that replaced them.

A dozen years of military rule is what created those things in the first place. Funny, though: For a minute there, you sounded like Paul Bremmer.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:10 PM

Very strained Bremer analogy since Iraq is a distant foreign country with which we have little in common. Some might say that about the south, but I tend to be more optimistic.

Factually, military rule in the south gave way soon enough to readmission with respect to most of the states of the former Confederacy. With respect to the bigger picture, the fact that freedmen were denied land (General Sherman's 40 acres and a mule policy was quickly rescinded by then-President Andrew Johnson) probably prevented the development of a Black southern yeomanry that might have led to better results.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:19 PM

Balls. They were all in it for a buck. That's why they had to off Lincoln before there really was malice towards none, and charity for all.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:22 PM

Quote:

Very strained Bremer analogy since Iraq is a distant foreign country with which we have little in common. Some might say that about the south, but I tend to be more optimistic. Factually, military rule in the south gave way soon enough to readmission with respect to most of the states of the former Confederacy. With respect to the bigger picture, the fact that freedmen were denied land (General Sherman's 40 acres and a mule policy was quickly rescinded by then-President Andrew Johnson) probably prevented the development of a Black southern yeomanry that might have led to better results.

ivor...are you familiar with a site called "formspring"?.
i think i may have a way to put your skills to use.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:33 PM

Cute responses, but not much substance. Teh intrawebs are no substitute for books. Think I will read awhile. Keep the party going.

Posted by: Mark_J

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:43 PM

yesterday i helped a buddy move in the blazing heat, at the end of which we sucked downa few ice cold Dos Equis. my god did they go down smooth (salvation has many faces).

even though i used to be an alcoholic i stopped halfway through the third when i wasn't thirsty anymore, reminding us once again it doesn't have to turn into a thing where you're pissing yourself or eating your next dinner from a garbage pail.

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 05:50 PM

@ Mark J: Quitter!

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 06:49 PM

Quote:

Thanks.

Last night, I heard a woman from Cincinnati who got sober in 1991 share her story. She dropped out of high school, was minimum wage, didn't have a clue with men, family disowned her, on and on. Today, she is happily married and pursuing her Ph.D., and she has travelled quite a bit. She helped both her parents a great deal in their last days. I know her from a few years ago, good to see her doing well, we chatted a short while.

What that has to do with booze/drugs, I've no idea but I want to know why a girl with everything going for her now would want to talk to you. Did she look around the room for help when you started going on about your ham radio? Did you ask her out? "I'll pick you up and we'll go to my house. Actually, it's the same thing. Hard to explain."

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 06:55 PM

Quote:

I want to know why a girl with everything going for her now would want to talk to you.

[/thread]

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 07:10 PM

Actually, years ago she sent me some signals, but she is a bit too large for me. We chatted about AA work and such before the meeting, she was sitting behind me. I didn't know she was the lead speaker. She kinda gave away in the lead that she sent signals to lots of guys.

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 07:13 PM

She sounds like a dishwasher.

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 08:53 PM

Quote:

Actually, years ago she sent me some signals, but she is a bit too large for me. We chatted about AA work and such before the meeting, she was sitting behind me. I didn't know she was the lead speaker. She kinda gave away in the lead that she sent signals to lots of guys.

Maybe she meant American Apparel work. You are totally off-brand.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/22/10 09:01 PM

Alot of women in AA and NA are big whores. People in recovery fill the void of sobriety with caffeine, nicotine and sex. Woman in the program have a tendency to work their way through the regular male attendees in their meetings. This is just charin's turn. She'll move on.

Posted by: Harvey T. Bingham

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:10 AM

Quote:

reminding us once again it doesn't have to turn into a thing

AA folk think if they open a beer, it'll be like opening the box in Hellraiser. Pinhead is going to pop out and say CHOOSE YOUR FATE, and they'll wake up 37 hours later in a dumpster, bleeding from a usable orifice or two.

You know Old Harvey ain't ever needed no 12-step program. The first step would always be them telling me how to live my life, and the next 11 steps would be my feet on their face and tit. HOP-SHUFFLE-STEP. HOP-SHUFFLE-STEP. I did once bang someone in a 12-step, though, which makes me infinitely qualified to make fun of it.

AA ain't nothing but another DRUG. Some people are hooked on meth. Some people are hooked on dirty martinis. Them bitches are hooked on healin'. I've got a tip for ya. If you don't feel like you can muster the self-control to live life for two weeks without attending a meeting, you're STILL A FUCKIN' ADDICT. Different day, different drug.

You can forget all that bullshit. If you wanna join up with that shit, might as well go all out and sign up for one of them cults where you castrate yourself and let the leader bang your wife and daughter, because, well he plays Guitar.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 12:56 PM

Among many other things, alcoholics seem to react to alcohol intake by becoming aggressive and/or otherwise behaving in a manner that leads them to trouble, as opposed to just getting mellow or happy when drinking. IMO whatever they do to promote their recovery ought to be lauded. I can't claim first hand experience and can't imagine claiming any expertise to provide advice or counsel to a support network that has their track record of success.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 05:15 PM

What "track record of success" are you talking about? AA is notoriously quiet about their success rate.

The same number of alcoholics who get sober through AA get sober on their own.

There is a ton of info about this out there but here is one link.

Not saying you shouldn't use AA if you feel the program works.

Also, I can't see why any rational person would get involved with a program that involved a "higher power" or any other kind of supernatural forces to help stay sober.

Chuck has addressed that your higher power can be pretty much anything but it's still a ridiculous concept to think your sobriety has anything to do with any power other than yourself.

Some good sources on this page as well.

Also, despite being obviously biased: This episode of Bullshit! is pretty interesting.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 05:24 PM

Given the difficult nature of the problem of alcoholism, use of success rate as a criteria seems to stack the deck against the program. The higher power concept seems to be elastic enough these days, and those who regard themselves as being in total control without need of anything outside of higher than than individual powers are likely to encounter some rude surprises on the road of life.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 05:34 PM

Believe in whatever supernatural forces you like.

My point was that the claim that AA has a high success rate is dubious. High success rate in comparison to what?

If you aren't comparing AA to anything else keeping 1 person sober for 1 day would be a pretty high number compared to 0.

Again, AA works for some people but there is no evidence of any kind of long term success in the program.

Considering that few people stay in the program even after a year after they started going...

If you are interested in an alcohol treatment that you can actually study check out a medicine called Baclofen.

When AA starts publishing numbers that can be backed up by independent research they will stop sounding like a religious organization who sells books and tokens.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 05:45 PM

I wish more would "get it". Success rates are hard to define or measure. But, we are often the only long term game in town, we're free, and when it works, it works very well.

This deal is a whole lot better than having booze as my Higher Power.

The standard answer to the question, "How does AA work?" is, "Very well, thank you."

-Chuck, Vegetarian fanboy

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 05:53 PM

I always thought of it as lifestyle that helps one stay sober. [most of the time ]

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:01 PM

Quote:

This deal is a whole lot better than having booze as my Higher Power.

The standard answer to the question, "How does AA work?" is, "Very well, thank you."

I notice you aren't claiming a long term success rate. You are just 1 guy who has been trying very hard to make it work for over a decade.

From AA's own numbers it's clear that not many people who go to a couple of meetings continue to attend after a longer period of time. Let's say a year.

Keep doing what works for you and if you can come up with some kind of demonstrable success rate (not talking about opinions about whether it works for some folks, I want some numbers) compared to other ways people try to get sober I would love to hear about it.

I'm not knocking AA because it helps you. I am knocking it because there aren't numbers to support opinions about how well it works for people in general.

What is the attrition rate at your meetings? How many people are still going 6 months after their first meeting? This is the kind of thing that is important for judging any kind of success rate.

I am going to repeat this:

Quote:

When AA starts publishing numbers that can be backed up by independent research they will stop sounding like a religious organization who sells books and tokens.

And also repeat Chuck:

Quote:

The standard answer to the question, "How does AA work?" is, "Very well, thank you."

Tell me that AA doesn't sound like a religion after some of Chuck's answers.

Why is there even a standard answer instead of reasoning it out for someone who is asking a question? Sounds like church.

This is the same kind of Christianity, Mac User Dogma repetition shit that I get from born agains. Mac's slogan "It Just Works" sounds a hell of a lot like what Chuck just said.

Deflecting questions of numbers doesn't speak highly of how well a program works.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:16 PM

One down side to anonymity, eh?

But you can beat the odds. We tell you how every meeting.

Keep comin' back.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:24 PM

Anonymity is no reason not to publish things like anonymous surveys. You know those comment cards at restaurants? Even something like that would be better than nothing.

You notice AA doesn't bother trying to prove the program works. If it's such a great program why aren't they trumpeting how successful it is?

I realize you have bought into the dogma but AA doesn't stand up to any skepticism.

"This program works"

"show me please how well it works?"

"Nevermind that. It just works."

There are a ton of things in the world that operate with that mindset. They are called scams/snake oil/religion.

"Buy my moose diarrhea, it is an amazing hair tonic! Also it will make you young again."

"Looks like diarrhea to me."

"No, really, trust me, it works"

"How does it work? Why does it work?"

"It just works. End of story."

Blind faith isn't proof that anything works.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:42 PM

AA and NA appeal to people who are lemmings and need/crave a sense of "belonging". I went to meetings of both groups and found it all creepy. The hand holding, the hugs, the prayers and the constant repetition of catch phrases was something like a cross between a cult and a pyramid scheme seminar.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:47 PM

You can join our fellowship and take over the service task of tracking these autonomous groups of anonymous drunks if you want. But, it sounds like you don't want what we have. That's OK, too.

We do a survey every few years, and publish a pamphlet about it. There's some numbers in the conference Final Report. I don't know them off the top of my head.

What can be done is a decent estimate of our numbers in the US and Canada. Professionals estimate one in 10 people are alcoholic? I don't know, that's what I recall from years ago. From that and population data, I think I extrapolated the percentage of alcoholics sober in AA. That doesn't say anything about how many have tried AA, and there are huge error bars on all this stuff, but AA does work very well for large numbers of us. About 2 million or so in the US and Canada? I dunno, maybe I'll dig something up Thursday.

One thing our survey shows is a large percentage, I seem to recall over half, have also had professional counseling or treatment. I think it was 8 years ago I took a hard look at some statistics extrapolated from the survey, and it clearly shows if you make one year, you have a good chance at long term sobriety. I also recall being in the middle of a lot of the stats - sober 12 years, go to 2-3 meetings a week, 40's, male, some college (I didn't have my 4 year degree then).

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:48 PM

Quote:

Anonymity is no reason not to publish things like anonymous surveys.

You notice AA doesn't bother trying to prove the program works. If it's such a great program why aren't they trumpeting how successful it is?

I realize you have bought into the dogma but AA doesn't stand up to any skepticism.

"This program works"

"show me please how well it works?"

"Nevermind that. It just works."

There are a ton of things in the world that operate with that mindset. They are called scams/snake oil/religion.

"Buy my moose diarrhea, it is an amazing hair tonic!"

"Looks like diarrhea to me."

"No, really, trust me, it works"

"How does it work? Why does it work?"

"It just works. End of story."

Blind faith isn't proof that anything works.

The only people who believe AA "works" are, coincidentally enough, the same people who say things like "success rates are hard to define or measure".

I think I posted once before that there are many studies that have shown that AA is neither the only structured program to help alcoholics nor is it anywhere close to being one of the more successful ones. It usually ranks right up there with doing nothing at all, and outside of the U.S. it is almost universally derided as an ineffectual cult rather than a treatment strategy.

I know I am just repeating what Conq has already alluded to, but the point I'm trying to make is that it is more than just about "dubious" claims or first hand reports from people or television shows debunking the myth, it is a well studied, investigated and documented fact.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:50 PM

I'd be very interested in links to your investigations and documentation.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 06:55 PM

http://www.aa.org/subpage.cfm?page=74

Membership estimates, and a link to the pamphlet I mentioned.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:00 PM

If you end up digging up numbers I would like to see them.

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:06 PM

Quote:

I'd be very interested in links to your investigations and documentation.

Links?

What do you think I'm referring to, a YouTube video?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:14 PM

1,264,716 members in the US is the very conservative estimate from my link.

The latest, best study of population data is from 1994, the percentage is 7.4% of the population is alcoholic.

There are roughly 300,000,000 people in the US.

300,000,000 times 7.4% = 22,200,000 alcoholics in the US.

We are 1,264,716 / 22,200,000 = about 5.7% of alcoholics sober in AA, or better than one in twenty. And, again, that's a very conservative estimate.

I have no way to estimate how many have tried, or how many are sober outside AA.

[Sasha Grey]You have ways, but haven't availed yourself of them[/SG]

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:15 PM

Alcoholics Anonymous membership may decrease alcohol-related homicides

Interesting. Doesn't speak as to the effectiveness of AA in actual treatment. But it's at least from an organization who does hard science.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:19 PM

That's hilarious!

Every few years, like clockwork, since the early 40's, the scientific community has released a new wonder drug to cure drunks. We've been laughing it off for 60 years now. It's about time, stay tuned.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:22 PM

Quote:

That's hilarious!

Every few years, like clockwork, since the early 40's, the scientific community has released a new wonder drug to cure drunks. We've been laughing it off for 60 years now. It's about time, stay tuned.

Anti-Science. If it walks like a duck...

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:25 PM

I've worked in engineering research labs for 20 years and I can tell you, many times I've seen a pretty theory destroyed by an ugly fact.

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:29 PM

Yet you're prepared to throw science under the bus where it contradicts your faith.

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:31 PM

Quote:

If you end up digging up numbers I would like to see them.

The specific information I am alluding to can be found in professional journals, research articles, and government databases (mostly outside the USA where many countries maintain data on their citizens that would be considered a violation of civil rights in the US).

I would normally recommend a very well known website/search engine based in Bethesda, MD, but the only problem is that they are not discriminatory on which journal articles they document and there is just as much propaganda supporting AA as there is science debunking it.

It is a lot like finding a link supporting evolution. There are probably ten times as many religious propaganda sites refuting it. You can't teach evolution by linking to a factoid on a website and you can't convince your local preacher of it by using data, logic, or a reasoned argument (especially on a porn board)!

Besides, it would only irritate me to see some AA sponsored propaganda cloaked as respectable science being used to bolster the argument that it is an effective program and those can very easily be found there as well--probably more easily.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:34 PM

I don't get this either. If it's a medicine like baclofen to treat addiction or maybe ibogaine it's automatically worthless in your eyes just because you use a different approach?

AA guys can't just be happy for people trying to clean up their lives?

Remember how we have been talking about bigotry?

AA has been around for many years and there has been adequate time for people to study and form informed opinions about it.

It makes sense to be skeptical of something that has been around for a long time yet remains unproven the same way it makes sense to be skeptical of promising new approach (drug).

The drug is going to end up with peer reviewed studies in time that will prove or disprove it's effectiveness.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:35 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPZW28L4deo

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:38 PM

Quote:

AA guys can't just be happy for people trying to clean up their lives?

"There is no God but Bill W. Chuck is his prophet."

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:44 PM

Hey, if you don't want it, fine.

We do not sponsor research or disseminate medical information. We do not recruit members or offer initial motivation for alcoholics to quit. We are not treatment. We are a fellowship of anonymous recovering alcoholics who have found a program that works very well for us.

E.Y., you are full of shit, as usual. That's all I can say to you. I see very wrong statements presented as fact. You cannot produce anything, because there is no such thing as "AA sponsored propoganda." Go spread lies somewhere else, don't put them in this thread.

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:48 PM

Quote:

there is no such thing as "AA sponsored propoganda."

Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 07:49 PM

Quote:

there is no such thing as "AA sponsored propoganda."

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:08 PM

I'm curious how you treat alcoholics who show up to a meeting and decide AA isn't for them.

Would you continue to offer your support and be friendly or treat them as though (for lack of a better phrase) they had "left the fellowship"?

What troubles me it the exclusive club kind of attitude I see as opposed to seeing your fellow alcoholics suffering and saying "we're all in this together".

Obviously I "don't get it". And if that is the answer when people ask questions I'm not sure I want to "get it".

I can make Kool-Aid in my own kitchen, I don't need to sit in a church with a bunch of other drunks to enjoy Kool-Aid.

And you think it's "hilarious" when people try to find other solutions?

I find the taste of medicine a bit more palatable than Kool-Aid and slogans, why is that funny?

Fucking prejudiced bigot asshole. Remember how I said that EVERYONE is a bigot because nobody is perfect?

I'm not gonna say you don't deserve to have been born into western society but I am going to say that you have been incredibly narrow minded.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:14 PM

Yeah, I thought that's what this was all about. Trying to beat up on the guy who called you out for your racism, in his AA thread. The one place you knew I would reply to you.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:23 PM

I'm only attempting to hold up a mirror. I admitted that I can be a bigot. Can you?

I can see you have displayed blind contempt for people who do things differently than you do. Rise above it and just admit you can be prejudiced too, or don't.

I'm not even talking racial prejudice, I'm talking other people's efforts to become sober because they aren't taking the same path as you.

That is the exact same thing you have been accusing other posters of.

Some folks go to doctors who are educated in the field of medicine. Some people go to homeopaths. See where I'm going with this?

EDIT: AND I didn't show up here to beat up on you. I have posted before about finding your stories interesting. I was responding to another poster's assertion that AA had some kind of long track record of success. It doesn't. It also isn't some kind of weird freaky coincidence that the majority of posters feel that way.

Posted by: Fiend

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:30 PM

Back in the 90s when I visited AA and NA groups it was a no-no for the NA people to mention that they went to NA or that they abused anything but alcohol at an AA meeting. The drunks would cop an attitude or question the presence of a non-alcohol substance abuser. It was kind of funny and really sad at the same time. Drunks seem to feel superior to other types of drug addicts who are trying to recover and might be looking for a little extra support or whose schedule or transportation wouldn't let them find an NA meeting somewhere.

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:51 PM

Quote:

It makes sense to be skeptical of something that has been around for a long time yet remains unproven the same way it makes sense to be skeptical of promising new approach (drug).

The drug is going to end up with peer reviewed studies in time that will prove or disprove it's effectiveness.

There is nothing wrong with going the "no drug" route. People who seek help in non-temperance programs founded on standard behavior modification techniques tend to do better than the rigid, any-amount-of-alcohol-is-bad temperance based programs founded on evangelical protestant religious based ideology like AA.

It is a lot like somebody who looses control of themselves and has a mental breakdown every time they fly because of an irrational fear of flying who then takes the initiative to seek professional help and learns over tme how to overcome their issues rather than joining a club of people who all agree that the best way to deal with their illness would be to decide that they are powerless to overcome it, agree that any amount of time spent on airplanes is bad, and then give themselves rewards for the length of time that they have avoided flying. Common sense tells you which is logically the best approach and science confirms it.

Posted by: cqd

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 08:59 PM

My point was more that it isn't hilarious when people develop drugs to help with addiction.

I was trying to point out that rational skepticism favors the examination of new approaches over sticking to the approach that hasn't been proven in 60+ years.

Posted by: E.Y.Davis

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/10 09:19 PM

Quote:

My point was more that it isn't hilarious when people develop drugs to help with addiction.

I was trying to point out that rational skepticism favors the examination of new approaches over sticking to the approach that hasn't been proven in 60+ years.

...and I agree completely but some people don't want to rely on one drug to help them get off another one (even if it is an irrational thought), others aren't even aware that other programs exist to help alcoholics (or know that they are sometimes more effective), while even more believe the AA sponsored propaganda that alcoholics can never be treated and that abstinence is the only approach.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/24/10 04:28 AM

Look at the title of the study:

Quote:

Alcoholics Anonymous membership may decrease alcohol-related homicides

Doesn't that scream for a "no shit, Sherlock"?

I chuckle at the drug solutions for two reasons. First, they simply never seem to work. Second, the guys with the beakers don't understand what we have here is much more than abstinence, it is a wonderful new way of life. Just like BDM said.

Both AA historically, and me personally, have always been supportive of other approaches. Look back to where I posted that over half of us have had additional counseling or treatment.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/24/10 04:33 AM

The recovery portion of the thread is
on the first several pages.

For rationalizations for drinking
alone in front of your computer,
see the last few pages.

Hey conq., how's it goin'

Posted by: †††

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 10/21/10 01:51 PM

http://alcoholic-drifter.blogspot.com

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/11 06:58 AM

21 years today. One day at a time.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/11 07:48 AM

Congrats Chuck. All jokes aside I know that at first it had to be very tough.

Posted by: Jerkules

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/11 08:54 AM

I like breaking your balls, but good for you, if that is what it takes.

Posted by: have2cit

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/15/11 05:29 AM

You should celebrate with a few ice cold brews. It's only some beers, you can handle that easily.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 10/05/11 06:43 AM

I just did a searching and fearless moral inventory.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 10/05/11 05:40 PM

I bet you didn't throw out any Gag Factor DVD's ! :-)

Posted by: Barry the Pirate

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 10/08/11 05:59 AM

Good for you. If it works for you, it works.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 06/24/12 09:56 AM

Best paper I've read on the efficacy of AA-

http://hindsfoot.org/recout01.pdf

Basically, what Bill W. said decades ago still holds up. 3 or 4 out of 5 who initially come to a meeting don't stick. Maybe they come back later. Of those who stay and really try, about half achieve long term sobriety from the start. Another quarter make it after a slip or few.

Like I have observed, if you can tough it out for 3 months and get through a fourth and fifth step, you have a good chance at a sober, happy life. It works if you work it.

Posted by: Mr. Meat

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 06/24/12 11:23 AM

Never thought I'd see a Step Meeting thread on a porn board. My name is Meat and I am an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 3-15-04. I have a sponsor.

Posted by: Jerkules

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 06/24/12 11:46 AM

Chuck gots a new friend.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/03/12 10:21 AM

From my online group, mod brings up a topic:

Quote:

Being August, time for Step 8- "Made a list of people we had armed, and became willing to make amends to them all."

And gets this immediate reply:

Quote:

If I had 'armed' all of the people on my list, I wouldn't be alive today.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/03/12 08:16 PM

that's a passive aggressive response. He's indirectly implying that he should have eliminated those that could be threats to him today. Boot that fucker from the group before he brings the rest of you down with him.

Posted by: Mr. Meat

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/03/12 08:35 PM

I've been wanting to do some 13th steppin' lately.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/03/12 09:25 PM

considering I think the first step should be puke and rally I'm not even gonna ask what the 13th step is.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/09/12 06:58 PM

From my little home group - Monday my sponsor had 31 years, tomorrow Kathleen will have 36 years, Saturday Lou will have 38 years, and next Tuesday I will have 22 years. It works!

Posted by: Mr. Meat

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/09/12 07:05 PM

Congrats! I have to go to a meeting this week.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 06:14 AM

23 years today, One Day at a Time.

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 09:24 AM

wow 23 years.
that's great Chuck...good for you.

Posted by: Barry the Pirate

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 10:25 AM

Good for you, man.

Posted by: Jerkules

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 01:31 PM

Good Job, Chuck.

No tell us your tales of traveling this summer.

Posted by: Steezo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 05:31 PM

I got blackout drunk last week and apparently left my (empty) wallet and iPhone in a taxicab. I was looking all over the house for them and decided the cab driver had just stolen my shit. The next day, I got a call from the police saying a Good Samaritan was walking along the street on the complete other side of town and found my shit and turned it into the police. I picked my stuff up and not a single thing was missing from my wallet and my phone is in almost perfect condition. Therefore, I learned nothing from this experience.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 06:44 PM

So do you guys actually meet out on the steps ?

Posted by: Bornyo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 08:14 PM

Originally Posted By: backdoorman

So do you guys kgactually meet out on the steps ?

haha

Posted by: CxGxPx

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/13 10:00 PM

AA is the biggest pile of worthless worm shit to disgrace this already useless mud ball called Earth. Are you fucking kidding me? If anything I'm trying to drink more. A stupid ineffectual worthles cult is all AA ever amounts to. (I've had about 10 drinks in 3 hours, hopefully I can have at least 10 more)

Posted by: gia jordan

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/16/13 02:40 AM

Some dude I workout with is in AA. He seems to like it.

Posted by: CxGxPx

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/16/13 04:31 AM

I've had at least 35 drinks since Tuesday and I feel FUCKING GREAT.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/13/14 11:13 PM

24 years today.

Posted by: Fiend2

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/13/14 11:43 PM

Originally Posted By: charin

24 years today.

You should celebrate with a nice cold beer.

Posted by: HillbillyHarry

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/14 10:48 PM

AA works for people who seem to need to grasp onto something lest they fall into a mental hole.

as for meeting on the steps, I've had to address a weakening porch issue, so I can't

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/15 03:22 AM

25 years today!

Posted by: Steezo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/15 03:51 AM

Originally Posted By: charin

25 years today!

I believe a toast is in order. I'm buying.

Posted by: Jerkules

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/15 07:18 AM

Originally Posted By: charin

25 years today!

Congrats man.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/16/15 09:11 AM

Way to go Chuck.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 07:09 PM

Fancy token my sponsor passed on to me tonight. It was once his sponsor's.

The hardest year was that last year of drinking.

Posted by: Steezo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 08:01 PM

You honestly haven't had one single drink in 25 years?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 08:26 PM

It is not possible for me to have one drink without more.

Posted by: Steezo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 08:49 PM

That didn't exactly answer my question. So you have had no alcohol whatsoever in 25 years? No slip-ups?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 08:51 PM

I have not had a drink in 25 years, yes.

Posted by: Steezo

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/20/15 08:58 PM

Congratulations. That is quite an accomplishment. In 25 years, I've gone without a drink for maybe a month or so.

Posted by: Jerkules

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/15 09:04 PM

Originally Posted By: charin

I have not had a drink in 25 years, yes.

In that 25yrs, how many broads have you had flipped upside down on yer couch while you gag fucked their throat?

Posted by: Fiend2

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/23/15 10:15 PM

As a recovering alcoholic, Will you kiss a woman who has booze on her breath or will that be too tempting to drink??

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 03:23 AM

26 years today.

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 05:43 AM

Congrats dude! Actually the above question is interesting to me. Do you even associate with drinkers much? I would imagine after this long it wouldn't be too dangerous but I have no point of reference.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 08:40 AM

It doesn't bother me to be around it. Of course, no one likes a sloppy drunk.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 09:04 AM

Hey Charin. Whassup, dude?

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 09:24 AM

Hey, glad you're back.

Posted by: ivorenginedriver

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/16 09:26 AM

Thanks. Seems to be a fair amount of pro-Trump sentiment here. Trump is absolutely imploding IMO.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/17 12:41 AM

27 years today!

Posted by: backdoorman

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/14/17 06:44 AM

BEen wondering about you. You OK? How's the cancer treatment going?

Posted by: CxGxPx

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/16/17 05:19 AM

Posted by: LouCypher

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 09/04/17 07:32 PM

chuck, do you netflix? Flaked is a good one brotha.. hope all is well.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 09/04/17 08:09 PM

I'm not on netflix I'm not much of a movie guy. Been out riding the motorcycles today, life is good.

Posted by: charin

Re: Thurs. Step Meeting - 08/13/18 11:22 PM

28 years today.

Thurs. Step Meeting